Fasting for fat loss + tren + test + GH

[rodeo_clown]

My advice:

• Quit being lazy with cardio
• If you're lazy with cardio you probably don't lift that hard either - so put more effort into lifting
• 1,500 calories / day for a month combined with 2 hours / day of cardio has probably slowed your metabolism, making it harder to lose fat
• Cut back the cardio and up the intensity
• Have reasonable cheat meals / refeeds to stimulate metabolism

A good tip for everyone to remember is when you're doing all the right things but not seeing results, sometimes going the opposite way and doing the wrong, counterintuitive things can get the results you're looking for.

I think you're spot on with the slowed metabolism. I'm just learning about t3 now and it seems this may be what I'm missing.

 

[rodeo_clown]

The lowest body fat I ever had was after fasting for 8 days but I did this for health/healing purposes. I was definitely not on any gear. I think this is completely stupid idea to inject gear while doing a fast over 12-24 hours.

If you can't get to low body fat levels with what you are doing then something has to off that you are not mentioning.

I also have a hard time believing you fasted 2 weeks and did any weight training. When I fasted 8 days I would fatigue by entire arm flexors holding the phone to my ear talking with my girlfriend for 10 minutes.

I'm noticing odd ball posts and questions being asked by <50 post accounts tonight...

I wasn't doing any hardcore training. It was more compound exercises: deadlifts, squats, bench --- at probably 70-80% and a lot of rest in between. I was in ketosis at that point (I had a ketonix device that measured the acetone in my breath) so it wasn't that bad.

 

[rodeo_clown]

Everyone thinks their eating 1,500 cals..until they learn they can't count for shit.

"I eyeball my food, I've been doing this for years".

agreed. I thought for sure I was under 2000 when I first started dieting years back. When I actually started tracking it, I almost lost my shit at how ridiculously off I have been all these years. I was hitting 1000 cal before lunch and didn't even know it.

These days I track every single calorie -- it's actually kind of fun at this point.

 

[rodeo_clown]

Post up your diet , EVERYTHING you stick in your mouth.!!!

At 1500 calories a day I don’t see any way that a man over 100 pounds that working out 3x a week and doing cardio can’t lose weight.

Something is seriously out of line here

Yep. Please let me know. I'm frustrated as hell. This is a typical day M-F +/- 100 cals. Saturdays I fast till around 3-4 pm and have about the same 1500ish calories in a big meal.

However sundays is where I tend to get a little sloppy. I don't track as closely on sunday but I would estimate that at worst I'm hitting 2000 -- possibly 2500 (doubtful). I think my body is in some kind of starvation mode.

Forgot to mention M-F I do intermittent fasting. I have my first meal around noon and my last one around 8pm. -- and one thing I forget to track is that every night I have a metamucil drink (sugar free) but the calories are negligible. Oh and I have been drinking about a gallon of water per day (usually with crystal light).

 

[rodeo_clown]

And here's a couple more days from this week. I've been a little sloppy lately and been going a little higher than I'd like. I also bumped my tren dosage up to 50mg/day. One thing I forgot to mention is that I went out of town for about a week and didn't take any PEDs along with me --- I came back a few pounds lighter and kept dropping it for the next couple of days. I lost about 10lbs. I'm guessing it was water weight from the GH? No idea. I'm so new to this it's hard to figure out where I'm messing up.

 

[danieltx]

I think you're spot on with the slowed metabolism. I'm just learning about t3 now and it seems this may be what I'm missing.

Don't start supplementing with T3 at this point. See if regularly scheduled cheat meals / refeeds can help stimulate your thyroid and get fat loss going again first.

 

[weltweite]

Split the GH into two shots of 1 iu (separated by 4 hours) but make sure you are in a fasted state 2 to 3 hours after the shot so you can eat at the freed fatty acids.

If you can take more GH, i would say 1 iu three or four times a day.
About 1 iu will maximizes fatty acid liberation.
More than that hits threshold.

Injectable carnitine is incredibly effective too. Takes a bit to build up, 1 iu insulin with carnitine to drive it in.

Generally if someone is not doing cardio when fatty acids are released from the GH, it will be circulate and a good amount will redeposit somewhere in the body. So you want that period of time to be one where you burn fat... carnitine can help maximize how much you pull in and burn.

 

[HeavyDeads]

I think my body is in some kind of starvation mode.

That's not a thing. At all.


There's likely some metabolic adaptation if you've truly been at that low of kcals for that long, but it seems like you may have been a little looser than that.

If I were you, I'd eat a week or two at maintenance, track everything ingested, and proceed from there. Feel free to post up logs and weekly averages here and I'm sure you'll get the answers you're looking for.


ETA: and bloodwork is always a good idea

 

[aphextwin]

Something just doesn't seem to be adding up. You are telling me you are consuming 1500 cals, taking DNP, and 2 hours of cardio? Also, you can't lose weight? Not too mention you are using Tren..

Honestly, If I'm doing two hours of cardio while using DNP the fat will melt off so fast. Shit....if I did two hours of cardio a day period the fat would come off even more

Invest in a coach

 

[rodeo_clown]

Something just doesn't seem to be adding up. You are telling me you are consuming 1500 cals, taking DNP, and 2 hours of cardio? Also, you can't lose weight? Not too mention you are using Tren..

Honestly, If I'm doing two hours of cardio while using DNP the fat will melt off so fast. Shit....if I did two hours of cardio a day period the fat would come off even more

Invest in a coach

Yep. Now you see why I'm so frustrated. Looking back the calories have been closer to 1600...but big whoop right? Just got my blood work back. My total test is 842 (ref: 264 - 916 ng/dL) and free test: 42.4 (ref: 6.8 - 21.5 pg/mL). It was actually over 1500 for a while but I reduced the test to stay under 1000 because I want to avoid anti estrogen stuff.

My guess is that my caloric restriction has slowed my metabolism down and my thyroid has responded accordingly. I checked my thyroids before my cut a couple of months ago and they looked pretty normal. (though I'm not an expert)


Thyroid Panel With TSH
TSH 2.520 (ref: 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL)
Thyroxine (T4) 6.7 (ref: 4.5-12.0 ug/dL)
T3 Uptake 31 (ref: 24-39 %)
Free Thyroxine Index 2.1 (ref: 1.2-4.9)


I didn't do one recently because of the cost (I'm a cheap bastard, sue me). So I started taking T3 (for the past 3 days) and I'm finally starting to see some movement. I had read a LOT of confusing information on this but settled on 50mcg/day. Honestly it's frustrating reading so many guys on other forums call me an idiot and a liar when it appears that I'm doing everything right (as far as I know).

I've read how you're an idiot if you *don't* take T3 when on tren and I've also read you're an idiot if you *do* take T3 on tren. I figure I'll just give it a shot. Still a bit too early to tell but my weight is slowly going down again, which is quite promising.

 

[rodeo_clown]

Split the GH into two shots of 1 iu (separated by 4 hours) but make sure you are in a fasted state 2 to 3 hours after the shot so you can eat at the freed fatty acids.

If you can take more GH, i would say 1 iu three or four times a day.
About 1 iu will maximizes fatty acid liberation.
More than that hits threshold.

Injectable carnitine is incredibly effective too. Takes a bit to build up, 1 iu insulin with carnitine to drive it in.

Generally if someone is not doing cardio when fatty acids are released from the GH, it will be circulate and a good amount will redeposit somewhere in the body. So you want that period of time to be one where you burn fat... carnitine can help maximize how much you pull in and burn.

I read that 4IUs were for fat loss. (unconfirmed bro science). I always take 2IUs in the morning. Honestly I'd take more if I could afford it. I'll look in to carnitine.

 

[rodeo_clown]

That's not a thing. At all.


There's likely some metabolic adaptation if you've truly been at that low of kcals for that long, but it seems like you may have been a little looser than that.

If I were you, I'd eat a week or two at maintenance, track everything ingested, and proceed from there. Feel free to post up logs and weekly averages here and I'm sure you'll get the answers you're looking for.


ETA: and bloodwork is always a good idea

It's been roughly two months. I really don't think that's been enough for any "starvation mode" but I can't think of anything else. Yeah, looking back I thought I was solidly at 1500 but still I haven't veered too far off. I had a "cheat-ish" day on sunday where I just ate a shitload of healthy food -- veggies, cauliflower pizza with turkey pepperoni, sugar free jello. I didn't count calories because I was so frustrated.

I tossed in some T3 and I'm actually seeing some promising results.

 

[weltweite]

I read that 4IUs were for fat loss. (unconfirmed bro science). I always take 2IUs in the morning. Honestly I'd take more if I could afford it. I'll look in to carnitine.

I can go into the studies, but about 1 iu maxes out lipolysis for a few hour duration.

Lipolysis will start to occur around 135 minutes after the shot and stop at 225 minutes so you have a 1.5 hour window... about 2 hours after the shot to burn off the circulating fatty acids.

Note that there needs to be a time where GH is not active so receptors can translocate and refresh. Then hitting it again will release the same amount of fatty acids.

Taking 4 iu in one shot has its own purposes but from a fat loss standpoint, you are losing out on three extra lipolysis events that you can have your body eat itself for a meal.

Now this is talk about purely fat loss. 1 iu dosages is not ideal for building muscle... although it is anti-catabolic because elevated fatty acids in the blood is seen as an energy source obviously... the body will not catabolize muscle easily in that state.

 

[thebarbarian]

My advice:

• Quit being lazy with cardio
• If you're lazy with cardio you probably don't lift that hard either - so put more effort into lifting
• 1,500 calories / day for a month combined with 2 hours / day of cardio has probably slowed your metabolism, making it harder to lose fat
• Cut back the cardio and up the intensity
• Have reasonable cheat meals / refeeds to stimulate metabolism

A good tip for everyone to remember is when you're doing all the right things but not seeing results, sometimes going the opposite way and doing the wrong, counterintuitive things can get the results you're looking for.

This. Also, bloodwork might help to assess your current status before undertaking such a fast.

 

[rodeo_clown]

just an update. I have been on T3 for a couple of weeks now and my weight has been steadily going down again. My strength hasn't changed much (i don't mind being weaker, but I'm not, I'm as strong as ever).

Fuck I wish I had my thyroids checked before taking T3!!! That's something I'll be wondering. But I plan to do this for at least another week then taper off. Hopefully I won't gain too much during that thyroid readjustment period.

But as far as I can tell it *appears* like I did have some issues with my metabolism/thyroid levels. Anyone have any other theories?

 

[1234trew]

Why not just up the dose?
Lots of test + tren + gh AND a decent amount of calories and you will become a furnace. Gram of test, gram of tren, and 8+ius a day.
Seems like you are taking a minimum effective dosage with minimum effort and getting minimum results.
Either cheat with the drugs or stay low dose and give it the effort.