Feds prepare for war on herbal supplement

[Samson250]

I tried out a few of the methods mentioned at the beginning of the video I posted a few post back and thought I would talk about it since I wasn't the only one curious about Apple Cider Vinegar.
I used A strain called White Vietnam i received as a free sample today with my usual order and had never tried before said to be excellent for energy and very euphoric.
Normally I just gulp the powder with whatever drink, usually monster because the citric acid enhances the experience. This time I mixed in a quality Apple Cider Vinegar making sure to buy The type "with Mother" raw organic as recommended. I could have done my gulp and wash with the Vinegar, it tasted ok, but I was trying out some new things so I mixed it in with the powder to form a paste (see video posted above).
Most of the guys who do this stop at this point and eat the paste stating as in the video it's strong enough at this point. I took it the next step further and froze the paste for about 45 minutes. Something about the freezing strengthens the potency even beyond adding the Vinegar. Why not? Lol
I let it thaw for 20 minutes and ate about half the paste at that point but I've become sensitive to the taste of Kratom and it makes me gag. That's why I swallow the powder raw usually and probably will continue to until my capsule machine comes in.
The second half I made into tea and drank. The tea is essentially extract at that point which is faster acting in general than eating.
I took a dose six hours ago. Any less time than that is wasting good Kratom because i won't feel it. That's just me but in general about 6/8-10 hours in between doses is best. ALWAYS take on an empty stomach. After 20 minutes I drink a big glass of water then again at 30 and 45 minutes. If I'm hungry I eat after an hour unless I am really feeling it then I don't. Eating will definitely enhance it.
If I feel anything at all it will prove these methods effective IMO given the short time since my first dose. I am going to keep experimenting with these methods and tweak them to fit best for me but that's part of the fun isn't it? Anyway thanks for reading.
1st pic is everything up to coming out of the freezer.
2nd pic is brewing the tea in my French Press before drinking
3rd and 4th pics are my 13 year old Boa Constrictor just because he's bad ass

 

[nickels]

We have among the highest death rates due to drugs in the world, yet you guys think drugs should be legal. To many addictive personalities in the USA.

DRUG USE DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY

I'd argue that you have it backwards. The reason the death rate is so high is because most drugs are criminalized and stigmatized.

Drug-related deaths, overdoses, crime, various needle-related infectious diseases, and other related issues all dropped significantly after Portugal decriminalized. Same thing with the Netherlands.

You see similar things with alcohol. In many countries, the legal drinking age is 18 or 19. The U.S. is the only country where you can drive a car, buy a house, get married, join the military and die for your country but still not be of legal drinking age. Many European countries have no drinking age at all, and there are far, far fewer crimes, illnesses and violence that in the U.S., where it's more strictly controlled.

It didn't work in the Prohibition era with alcohol, and it hasn't worked with any other drugs since. There are now even people within the establishment (police chiefs, DEA agents, etc.) who have gone on public record to say that the drug war is a gigantic failure.

 

[m314]

During prohibition a fair amount of people died from consuming bad alcohol. How often does that happen now? The same thing goes on with drugs when are are declared illegal. I'm not saying drugs are safe, but overdose rates are lower in countries that have legalized and/or decriminalized drugs. If heroin we're deemed legal tomorrow how many clean people would line up to get some? I don't know of anyone. At least give them an opportunity to get a clean product and clean needles.

Prohibition doesn't work. Losing my brother last year made that very apparent.

My best friend for my whole life (also named Mike) died of an overdose in 2015. He was clean from opiates for several years. He went back to heroin when his girlfriend left him. His life ended at 40, just like that. One little accident. They think it was fentanyl that killed him, but they didn't care enough to do an autopsy or anything.

I don't think non-medical opiate use is a good thing at all. Prohibition causes far more harm than the actual drugs. Legal heroin would at least mean that people would get an accurate dose of the real thing when they want it.

 

[Samson250]

My best friend for my whole life (also named Mike) died of an overdose in 2015. He was clean from opiates for several years. He went back to heroin when his girlfriend left him. His life ended at 40, just like that. One little accident. They think it was fentanyl that killed him, but they didn't care enough to do an autopsy or anything.

I don't think non-medical opiate use is a good thing at all. Prohibition causes far more harm than the actual drugs. Legal heroin would at least mean that people would get an accurate dose of the real thing when they want it.

Yeah but us junkies don't like a consistent dose man. We're chasing the feeling we got that first time. "Used to do a little bit the little wouldn't do it so the little got more and more" like Axl says. Methadone isn't given in consistent doses they raise it over time.
I'm truly sorry you lost your best friend man

 

[Samson250]

I just want to be sure this thread tries less to debate the legalization of hard drugs (or soft) and stays more on track to a discussion about an all natural herb in the coffee plant family many of us use medicinally for work, exercise, or to curb the use of hard drugs that's under SERIOUS threat of being classified as not medically of value and thereby classifying us who use it as criminals.

Legalization of drugs already on the list is another discussion perhaps left for another time and place. I realize so many of us have personal stories of losing friends and family and it's an emotionally sensitive topic.

Use as an alternative to hard drugs is only half the story. It's use as a supplement in exercise and weight training is the other!

I'm a former heroine addict. Kratom is the best thing I've used to treat my addiction with the LEAST negative effects if any. It also has terrific beneficial properties for health and fitness and assists my recuperation after strenuous exercise. The government is working very hard.. right now.. to take that away from me and many others.

 

[m314]

Yeah but us junkies don't like a consistent dose man. We're chasing the feeling we got that first time. "Used to do a little bit the little wouldn't do it so the little got more and more" like Axl says. Methadone isn't given in consistent doses they raise it over time.
I'm truly sorry you lost your best friend man

He was a junkie, sure, but I don't think it was a long term habit or chasing a high that got him. I think he had just gotten back into it when he got a batch that was stronger than expected. I don't know all the details. I'm in California and he was still in Florida where we grew up.

The last time I saw him was at EDC Vegas that June. We had the best weekend together. He was depressed about his gf leaving, but he wasn't on opiates that weekend. The overdose was that September.

I actually mailed him kratom to try several years before that. He used it to get off heroin and oxys at the time. I guess he wasn't looking for an opiate alternative at the end. Major depression from a breakup plus a previous opiate habit just seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[Samson250]

He was a junkie, sure, but I don't think it was a long term habit or chasing a high that got him. I think he had just gotten back into it when he got a batch that was stronger than expected. I don't know all the details. I'm in California and he was still in Florida where we grew up.

The last time I saw him was at EDC Vegas that June. We had the best weekend together. He was depressed about his gf leaving, but he wasn't on opiates that weekend. The overdose was that September.

I actually mailed him kratom to try several years before that. He used it to get off heroin and oxys at the time. I guess he wasn't looking for an opiate alternative at the end. Major depression from a breakup plus a previous opiate habit just seems like a recipe for disaster.

I understand.

Yeah I know I was only an occasional prescription pill user every now and then but a love lost hit me hard and I went to the serious users and told them I wanted the needle. I asked them to show me and for the small price of my soul they obliged. It's not often physical pain that people seek relief from. A broken heart.. shit man that's the worst pain there is.

I can say "man I understand how you feel" all night long but truth is I don't so I won't patronize you like that. Let me just say I'm truly sorry you lost your friend. Try and remember that awesome weekend for the fun you had that's really all I know to say man. Thanks for sharing your story. I know it wasn't easy.

 

[Samson250]

**broken link removed**

I'm involved primarily at the local level but every bit helps

 

[Underbar]

I use it for my joint pain and it also makes me focus better on some tasks that I would usually don't pay much attention to.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Professional Muscle mobile app

 

[juggy38]

Samson have you looked into suboxone? If Kratom gets scheduled I think that's your best bet

 

[pesty4077]

I'd argue that you have it backwards. The reason the death rate is so high is because most drugs are criminalized and stigmatized.

Drug-related deaths, overdoses, crime, various needle-related infectious diseases, and other related issues all dropped significantly after Portugal decriminalized. Same thing with the Netherlands.

You see similar things with alcohol. In many countries, the legal drinking age is 18 or 19. The U.S. is the only country where you can drive a car, buy a house, get married, join the military and die for your country but still not be of legal drinking age. Many European countries have no drinking age at all, and there are far, far fewer crimes, illnesses and violence that in the U.S., where it's more strictly controlled.

It didn't work in the Prohibition era with alcohol, and it hasn't worked with any other drugs since. There are now even people within the establishment (police chiefs, DEA agents, etc.) who have gone on public record to say that the drug war is a gigantic failure.

That is far from being true. Most of those countries at the bottom of that chart have some of the strictest laws going. I say it is more of a society problem here. Another major factor that has put up at the top is big Pharma push on giving us more pills at will. Prescription pills are an epidemic now and contributing to this in great degree.

As far as Europe, most countries the drinking age is 18 and up. I don't know where you get that most don't have a drinking age limit. Netherlands is 18 and up. Netherlands also isn't like most think. They might let you have personal supply with some drugs (not all), but get caught with selling, importing or exporting and they come down on you hard. Commit any drug related crime (lots of addicts do), they will give you maximum sentences too.

In Amsterdam 26 coffee shops in the De Wallen area have to close their doors between 1 September 2012 and 31 August 2015.
A Dutch judge has ruled that tourists can legally be banned from entering cannabis cafés, as part of new restrictions which come into force in 2012. Their laws have been tightening up due to the increase of problems and drug related crimes.

Out of a population of 17 million, 12,000 end up in drug treatment places. Think about that. We have 350 million here and that is more then our homicide rate. I would not call that a success. Being addicted to drugs is a horrible life and you are fooling yourself to think other wise.

 

[Samson250]

Know that i think About it it's more like $100 every 10 days or so. I get a pound for $100. That still adds up pretty quick.

All your doing when you swap out opiates for kratom is trading one mental addicition for another. This is coming from an addicts point of view.

They say it's not a problem if you have it figured out :banghead:

Take apple cider vinegar for a potentiator.. you won’t need to spend so much money.. I use 1/4 the amount of Kratom I used to

Just wanted to say I followed rgmedic's tip and it's cut my dose by more than half and I could easily reduce that further

 

[maldorf]

That is far from being true. Most of those countries at the bottom of that chart have some of the strictest laws going. I say it is more of a society problem here. Another major factor that has put up at the top is big Pharma push on giving us more pills at will. Prescription pills are an epidemic now and contributing to this in great degree.

As far as Europe, most countries the drinking age is 18 and up. I don't know where you get that most don't have a drinking age limit. Netherlands is 18 and up. Netherlands also isn't like most think. They might let you have personal supply with some drugs (not all), but get caught with selling, importing or exporting and they come down on you hard. Commit any drug related crime (lots of addicts do), they will give you maximum sentences too.

In Amsterdam 26 coffee shops in the De Wallen area have to close their doors between 1 September 2012 and 31 August 2015.
A Dutch judge has ruled that tourists can legally be banned from entering cannabis cafés, as part of new restrictions which come into force in 2012. Their laws have been tightening up due to the increase of problems and drug related crimes.

Out of a population of 17 million, 12,000 end up in drug treatment places. Think about that. We have 350 million here and that is more then our homicide rate. I would not call that a success. Being addicted to drugs is a horrible life and you are fooling yourself to think other wise.

Interesting read about Colorado.

Colorado marijuana DUIs drop 33 percent in the first quarter of 2017 compared with last year

 

[m314]

Samson have you looked into suboxone? If Kratom gets scheduled I think that's your best bet

Suboxone is too powerful for this. It's like using a sledgehammer when you have a problem a screwdriver would fix. Suboxone is an alternative to round the clock heroin use, but going there from kratom doesn't make sense. People use suboxone to quit a real opiate habit quickly and come off for good, or they stay on for life. It's too powerful to think of as an opiate alternative.

If kratom is scheduled, the best bet for people who are on it would be to quit or just buy it online. No one here cares about legality when they buy tren / EQ / deca / whatever. Banning kratom would be mostly symbolic. There is a market for it. People will find it and buy it no matter what their government tells them to do.

 

[juggy38]

Suboxone is too powerful for this. It's like using a sledgehammer when you have a problem a screwdriver would fix. Suboxone is an alternative to round the clock heroin use, but going there from kratom doesn't make sense. People use suboxone to quit a real opiate habit quickly and come off for good, or they stay on for life. It's too powerful to think of as an opiate alternative.

If kratom is scheduled, the best bet for people who are on it would be to quit or just buy it online. No one here cares about legality when they buy tren / EQ / deca / whatever. Banning kratom would be mostly symbolic. There is a market for it. People will find it and buy it no matter what their government tells them to do.

I'm writing a thesis on suboxone. I brought that up because Sampson is an ex heroine junkie. He uses 30-40g Kratom a day. A 4mg/1mg suboxone strip wouldn't even be equivalent to that.

Also I brought
That up since in another thread Sampson took an ungodly amount of tianeptine

 

[Samson250]

I'm writing a thesis on suboxone. I brought that up because Sampson is an ex heroine junkie. He uses 30-40g Kratom a day. A 4mg/1mg suboxone strip wouldn't even be equivalent to that.

Also I brought
That up since in another thread Sampson took an ungodly amount of tianeptine

I wonder if obtaining a script would be difficult because I'm not currently using H. Getting on methadone I had to be coached by a junkie buddy what to say and go in for my exam after a bender so my arms and hands had tracks all up and down. I think that had more to do with getting started out on a higher dose though.
My doctor has known me since I was 10. He would throw me out of the office trying to get a script like that. He would tell me to stay on Kratom. Maybe a different doctor.
I also want to function and methadone was really unpredictable. I could get nothing one day and be a drooling nodding idiot the next on the same dose. Is it like that?

 

[juggy38]

I wonder if obtaining a script would be difficult because I'm not currently using H. Getting on methadone I had to be coached by a junkie buddy what to say and go in for my exam after a bender so my arms and hands had tracks all up and down. I think that had more to do with getting started out on a higher dose though.
My doctor has known me since I was 10. He would throw me out of the office trying to get a script like that. He would tell me to stay on Kratom. Maybe a different doctor.
I also want to function and methadone was really unpredictable. I could get nothing one day and be a drooling nodding idiot the next on the same dose. Is it like that?

No. Suboxone is a partial opioid agonist where methadone is a full agonist. Methadone you have to go to a methadone clinic where suboxone can be in an outpatient setting. And suboxone isn't just for heroine junkies, there are many patients that got addicted to PO narcotics due to trauma (surgeries, chronic pain, MVAs) and just can't get off them and/or still need some sort of pain relief

I'm not saying quit Kratom. I'm just saying if it gets scheduled your gonna be up shit creek

 

[Samson250]

No. Suboxone is a partial opioid agonist where methadone is a full agonist. Methadone you have to go to a methadone clinic where suboxone can be in an outpatient setting. And suboxone isn't just for heroine junkies, there are many patients that got addicted to PO narcotics due to trauma (surgeries, chronic pain, MVAs) and just can't get off them and/or still need some sort of pain relief

I'm not saying quit Kratom. I'm just saying if it gets scheduled your gonna be up shit creek

I see.

I really appreciate you offering me the tip and info jug thank you! Seriously. Im good at using one thing to quit another lately and Sub might really do the trick. I had an addiction to loperamide that got real bad but used Vicodin from an injury to get off it. Worked great. Short term script so the vic couldn't mess with me. Since then I've been jumping Kratom strains often so is to not have withdrawal and it's been working plus over the weekend I started using methods the guys on this thread recommended for enhancing the effect and cut my dosage to about 16 grams a pop. That's improvement brother! Lol
Trading one addiction for another is probably the best I can do. When my dad would quit drinking he would switch to black cherry yogurt and down a gallon at a time. I have an illness. I'm in a place right now that's dangerous mentally and keeping up with therapy and going to meetings is crucial. I fantasize about finding some black tar someplace and going to town on it sometimes so I know I'm not very strong right now. Probably why I'm so obsessed about Kratom going away. I know what I'll go looking for to use in its place won't be good.

Hey thanks again jug..

 

[m314]

I see.

I really appreciate you offering me the tip and info jug thank you! Seriously. Im good at using one thing to quit another lately and Sub might really do the trick. I had an addiction to loperamide that got real bad but used Vicodin from an injury to get off it. Worked great. Short term script so the vic couldn't mess with me. Since then I've been jumping Kratom strains often so is to not have withdrawal and it's been working plus over the weekend I started using methods the guys on this thread recommended for enhancing the effect and cut my dosage to about 16 grams a pop. That's improvement brother! Lol
Trading one addiction for another is probably the best I can do. When my dad would quit drinking he would switch to black cherry yogurt and down a gallon at a time. I have an illness. I'm in a place right now that's dangerous mentally and keeping up with therapy and going to meetings is crucial. I fantasize about finding some black tar someplace and going to town on it sometimes so I know I'm not very strong right now. Probably why I'm so obsessed about Kratom going away. I know what I'll go looking for to use in its place won't be good.

Hey thanks again jug..

Dream Market, Wall Street Market, Aero, Tochka. Learn these names and how to find dark net sites, and it won't matter what the laws say about kratom. Kratom isn't going away. The worst that can happen is that you'll have to buy bitcoin to get kratom instead of using your credit card.

 

[rmtt]

Just wanted to say I followed rgmedic's tip and it's cut my dose by more than half and I could easily reduce that further

I've always heard about grapefruit juice being a potentiator, but never ACV. But I know that Grapefruit Juice is listed on a lot of medication as to avoid taking it together....I'm assuming because of that reason.

I remember the doctor telling my dad about it when he first got put on Blood Pressure medication.

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