fertility bloodwork?

[workingclass]

currently trying to have a baby. really only just seriously started trying at the beginning of august
late 30's been on gear for about 4yrs now very mild doses (500 test etc, other compounds as well but below or half of test dose) until the beginning of this year
ramped up to 1200 test 600 npp 900 eq (dropped npp and eq in may) went down to 400test and yesterday was my first 150test/week pin
also running 8units gh

supps:
2000mg nac
3000mg taurine
1000mg vitamin c
5000mg d3+k2
1000mg bpc (oral)
1mg finnasteride
2.5mg minoxidil (oral)
200mcg chromium picolinate
2000mg high absorbtion curcumin
1500mg berberine
4000fus nattokinase
liver refresh x3
coq10
probitotic-10 25 billion
fish oil blend
gnc mega men sport multi

I also just ordered some reta and slu-haven't received it yet but wondering if I should hold off when it comes

took an at home sperm test yesterday before I decided what/if I needed anything for baby making protocol-and here my results. came with a video too which was cool
while it seems that I don't have a lot I can tell you that what I do have swims super fast and straight under the microscope in the video (tried to upload)

wondering what bloodwork should I go get now along with this to help decide what type of protocol I should run?
Thanks ahead

 

[gib68sg]

I’m sure others will be much more helpful with the bloodwork aspect, but do a search for HMG/HCG protocols. Many guys here have been very successful even after years of blasting. Especially using @SOUR DIESEL and directs products. There’s quite a few threads on it. Good luck bro!

 

[workingclass]

I’m sure others will be much more helpful with the bloodwork aspect, but do a search for HMG/HCG protocols. Many guys here have been very successful even after years of blasting. Especially using @SOUR DIESEL and directs products. There’s quite a few threads on it. Good luck bro!

thanks brother, I was gonna post this in a few of those threads but since they seemed to be specifically talking about the protocols I didn't wanna jack their thread
I really liked when I read @danieltx post "Legions of bodybuilders have conceived without ever taking a single shot of HCG"
definitely assures me it will happen when it's supposed to

 

[Theone233]

I ran Hcg/hmg and some clomid 10 years ago to help conceive my first born. We had 2 more back to back after that. Fast forward 10 years, I’ve been on hrt and small cycles. Found out 11 weeks ago that I’m having another kid. Have no idea how that’s possible but I guess there’s always the chance. Good luck to you and yours

 

[bbxtreme]

thanks brother, I was gonna post this in a few of those threads but since they seemed to be specifically talking about the protocols I didn't wanna jack their thread
I really liked when I read @danieltx post "Legions of bodybuilders have conceived without ever taking a single shot of HCG"
definitely assures me it will happen when it's supposed to

I loved Dan, but the average bodybuilder who has and does run cycles will need to be on HCG year round. And while trying to conceive will need HCG EOD and HMG 2-3 times per week.

Looking at your results above you will not want to skip on the HMG- yes it gets a bit costly doing a vial, 2-3 times weekly, but it will greatly speed things up. And just remember, be patient as it will take time for your system to reset and your counts to come back up.

@TheOtherOne55 has shared some good insights on here regarding his experiences I would reference.

 

[PRorER]

thanks brother, I was gonna post this in a few of those threads but since they seemed to be specifically talking about the protocols I didn't wanna jack their thread
I really liked when I read @danieltx post "Legions of bodybuilders have conceived without ever taking a single shot of HCG"
definitely assures me it will happen when it's supposed to

Been using anywhere from 300mg to 1000mg for 2 and a half years. Was running Test/Mast/Tren at 900mg total when my first was conceived. Blast and Cruise year round

 

[workingclass]

I ran Hcg/hmg and some clomid 10 years ago to help conceive my first born. We had 2 more back to back after that. Fast forward 10 years, I’ve been on hrt and small cycles. Found out 11 weeks ago that I’m having another kid. Have no idea how that’s possible but I guess there’s always the chance. Good luck to you and yours

did you do any bloodwork prior to deciding your protocol? also congrats and thanks man

I loved Dan, but the average bodybuilder who has and does run cycles will need to be on HCG year round. And while trying to conceive will need HCG EOD and HMG 2-3 times per week.

Looking at your results above you will not want to skip on the HMG- yes it gets a bit costly doing a vial, 2-3 times weekly, but it will greatly speed things up. And just remember, be patient as it will take time for your system to reset and your counts to come back up.

@TheOtherOne55 has shared some good insights on here regarding his experiences I would reference.

from everything I'm reading in the threads it's definitely looking like hcg/hmg

the new rear double profile profile pic looks great

 

[Stewie]

We have to think(!) of what cellular dynamics-fluidity plays a very critical role with fertility. There's the obvious ‐ the aforementioned polypharmacy including hCG and HMG.

If you get bored- take a peek at how the mitochondria endoplasmic reticulum associated membrane (these are all tucked away in every cell in your ole nutsack) plays a HUGE role in fertility. Anabolics (think excessive Ca2± influx) and less than stellar lifestyle choices can muck-up these junction points (think membrane) that are imperative for spermatogenic cells.

What I'm getting at here. Look into strategies that help support the ole mitochondria endoplasmic reticulum associated membrane integrity.

Couple suggestions to start out with ‐ melatonin, phosphatidylserine and omega-3.

 

[Thahn]

hmg or gonal f (fsh) along side hcg is what you will need asap

 

[MB1602]

Hows your morphology?

I have recently came off and only been doing hcg/hmg 1000iu/75iu ED with a myraid of supplements to help with sperm quality.

I read from past thread coming off is best and morphology tends to sky rocket when you do so - watched it from vigorous steve when he was trying for one.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I think everyone is on the right track here. But this bloodwork (and honestly future bloodwork) is not going to determine WHAT you are doing. Shit just takes time, and is a bit annoying and frustrating. You juuust decrease your cycle, you just have to make your hcg/hmg purchase now and get it going. Simple as that.

Reminder, it takes about 75 days for what you are doing now to affect and create an end result in your sperm. Thats a long time. So this is process where you kinda have to put your head down and make it all a part of your routine, find a way to stay motivated in the gym, etc. If i were you, i'd just get into that hmg/hcg ASAP and start the process.

 

[Flex500]

Check out this thread...man...can't believe I made it four years ago. I have a 13 year old and an almost 3 year old boy...

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...-fertility-protocol-and-few-questions.169678/

As mentioned, DanTX was a great dude, but the vast majority of the guys I've known who have conceived came off everything or had a hefty protocol on TRT. At 4.5m concentration, it's going to take a little time and some work. To put it in perspective, I think it's 10-15m sperm they usually want for IVF. That said, you have a good base to start (I was literally zero...I did those home vasectomy tests that test for 250,000 sperm or less...to confirm your vasectomy is successful...and yeah...that's where I was lol).

HMG and HCG. If I were to do it all again I think I would have just done a more "normal" dose of HCG focused on HMG big time. My count shot through the roof when I get serious about HMG and I ended up well over 100m.

 

[workingclass]

I think everyone is on the right track here. But this bloodwork (and honestly future bloodwork) is not going to determine WHAT you are doing. Shit just takes time, and is a bit annoying and frustrating. You juuust decrease your cycle, you just have to make your hcg/hmg purchase now and get it going. Simple as that.

Reminder, it takes about 75 days for what you are doing now to affect and create an end result in your sperm. Thats a long time. So this is process where you kinda have to put your head down and make it all a part of your routine, find a way to stay motivated in the gym, etc. If i were you, i'd just get into that hmg/hcg ASAP and start the process.

ok got it- so this was the answer I was really looking for- there is no bloodwork that's going to help me determine what I need to do here. I simply just need to follow the protocols and simply be patient.
not looking forward to feeling like shit. when I initially came down to 400 from 1200t; I felt neutered. like my testicles didn't even exist. I felt like they physically weren't there and sex drive was well below E.
but it's not forever and read about plenty of guys suffering through

Check out this thread...man...can't believe I made it four years ago. I have a 13 year old and an almost 3 year old boy...

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...-fertility-protocol-and-few-questions.169678/

As mentioned, DanTX was a great dude, but the vast majority of the guys I've known who have conceived came off everything or had a hefty protocol on TRT. At 4.5m concentration, it's going to take a little time and some work. To put it in perspective, I think it's 10-15m sperm they usually want for IVF. That said, you have a good base to start (I was literally zero...I did those home vasectomy tests that test for 250,000 sperm or less...to confirm your vasectomy is successful...and yeah...that's where I was lol).

HMG and HCG. If I were to do it all again I think I would have just done a more "normal" dose of HCG focused on HMG big time. My count shot through the roof when I get serious about HMG and I ended up well over 100m.

much appreciated. going to start reading your thread and start getting together the hcg/hmg

what I took from DanTx, may he rest in peace, was that it was possible no matter what. on or off gear. big believer in the power of positive thinking like the secret. put it out there and it will come.
even at such a low count I say to myself ok we got a shot but especially when I read about guys like yourself saying they are at literally zero but still were able to make a baby

while I think positive, I also think logical. true trt is going to give me a good shot and zero trt at all is going to give me my best chance.
I'm going the 150t/week route first to see what happens (mostly to not feel like complete shit) - and retest again in 4 weeks like the test says to do. I'll update with results when that happens

I reached out to Dave Palumbo and had him send me his baby making protocol and watched Jeremy Buendia's baby making protocol videos
Dave says clearly to come off of everything and Jeremy said his dr gave him the option of true trt 100-150t/wk because "it shouldn't affect the fertility protocol" but he decided to come completely off to give himself the best chance possible but he didn't want to lose all his muscle and wanted to have some motivation and pumps in the gym so he ran 3-4ius gh

I'll update with my new test results in a few weeks

 

[Swifto]

ok got it- so this was the answer I was really looking for- there is no bloodwork that's going to help me determine what I need to do here. I simply just need to follow the protocols and simply be patient.
not looking forward to feeling like shit. when I initially came down to 400 from 1200t; I felt neutered. like my testicles didn't even exist. I felt like they physically weren't there and sex drive was well below E.
but it's not forever and read about plenty of guys suffering through

much appreciated. going to start reading your thread and start getting together the hcg/hmg

what I took from DanTx, may he rest in peace, was that it was possible no matter what. on or off gear. big believer in the power of positive thinking like the secret. put it out there and it will come.
even at such a low count I say to myself ok we got a shot but especially when I read about guys like yourself saying they are at literally zero but still were able to make a baby

while I think positive, I also think logical. true trt is going to give me a good shot and zero trt at all is going to give me my best chance.
I'm going the 150t/week route first to see what happens (mostly to not feel like complete shit) - and retest again in 4 weeks like the test says to do. I'll update with results when that happens

I reached out to Dave Palumbo and had him send me his baby making protocol and watched Jeremy Buendia's baby making protocol videos
Dave says clearly to come off of everything and Jeremy said his dr gave him the option of true trt 100-150t/wk because "it shouldn't affect the fertility protocol" but he decided to come completely off to give himself the best chance possible but he didn't want to lose all his muscle and wanted to have some motivation and pumps in the gym so he ran 3-4ius gh

I'll update with my new test results in a few weeks

I think going down to 100-150mg/wk of Test ONLY is the correct route. Also, make sure you control E2 keeping it in range as its directly suppressive to testes function. You should be fine anyway on a TRT dose of Test.

You could go even lower with the exogenous Test too IMO. 10mg/ED (Emeric) protocol, with HCG/HMG and Enclomiphene added. Some argue you can even get endogenies LH and FSH going again on such a low dosage of Test combined with Enclomiphene. You could test that by getting bloods for LH and FSH.

Ashwagandha RE shows promise in fertility, you could add that to your current supplement stack.

 

[Flex500]

ok got it- so this was the answer I was really looking for- there is no bloodwork that's going to help me determine what I need to do here. I simply just need to follow the protocols and simply be patient.
not looking forward to feeling like shit. when I initially came down to 400 from 1200t; I felt neutered. like my testicles didn't even exist. I felt like they physically weren't there and sex drive was well below E.
but it's not forever and read about plenty of guys suffering through

much appreciated. going to start reading your thread and start getting together the hcg/hmg

what I took from DanTx, may he rest in peace, was that it was possible no matter what. on or off gear. big believer in the power of positive thinking like the secret. put it out there and it will come.
even at such a low count I say to myself ok we got a shot but especially when I read about guys like yourself saying they are at literally zero but still were able to make a baby

while I think positive, I also think logical. true trt is going to give me a good shot and zero trt at all is going to give me my best chance.
I'm going the 150t/week route first to see what happens (mostly to not feel like complete shit) - and retest again in 4 weeks like the test says to do. I'll update with results when that happens

I reached out to Dave Palumbo and had him send me his baby making protocol and watched Jeremy Buendia's baby making protocol videos
Dave says clearly to come off of everything and Jeremy said his dr gave him the option of true trt 100-150t/wk because "it shouldn't affect the fertility protocol" but he decided to come completely off to give himself the best chance possible but he didn't want to lose all his muscle and wanted to have some motivation and pumps in the gym so he ran 3-4ius gh

I'll update with my new test results in a few weeks

Totally get it. I made that thread when I was at my breaking point. I felt like absolutely crap. Another thing I would have done if I had to do it again was stay on TRT until the HCG and HMG were really kicking in then I would have come off. I was on a very low trt dose but just stopped cold turkey then started the HCG. When we had our first kid I was 10 years younger and just came off everything no hcg or hmg and my count was 100m+ within 4 months. Didn't happen that easy when I was 40 lol.

 

[Flex500]

I think going down to 100-150mg/wk of Test ONLY is the correct route. Also, make sure you control E2 keeping it in range as its directly suppressive to testes function. You should be fine anyway on a TRT dose of Test.

You could go even lower with the exogenous Test too IMO. 10mg/ED (Emeric) protocol, with HCG/HMG and Enclomiphene added. Some argue you can even get endogenies LH and FSH going again on such a low dosage of Test combined with Enclomiphene. You could test that by getting bloods for LH and FSH.

Ashwagandha RE shows promise in fertility, you could add that to your current supplement stack.

good advice all around

 

[bensif]

A few things I’ve learnt in the last few years.

Most labs grossly overestimate morphology due to lack of high end equipment. So don’t worry too much about that number. If you’re seeing numbers over 10% it’s likely wrong. Most men sit between 1-4%. Humans grossly overproduce sperm because we make low quality sperm on the whole. Under a high powered microscope sperm that looked morphologically normal, actually are not and can have tiny holes (like Swiss cheese for example).

On test motility will be higher, but so will oxidative damage. This affects dna fragmentation. The older you both are the more important this becomes. The woman is able to repair a degree of damage brought by the sperm, but as we age egg quality also diminishes which hampers this ability.

Specifically double stranded dna damage is now more focused on as the threshold for infertility is much lower. I personally have this issue.

At the start of your journey, pay for as much testing as you can afford. A good SA at a high end lab, dna frag and if they offer it, double stranded dna frag.

Have your gonadotropins tested (LH and FSH) but if you’re taking hcg and HmG they will be suppressed.

Karotype testing, y micro deletion etc is worth ruling out.

What im suggesting is, based on my experience, find out early if there’s any problems that can take much longer to address so you don’t lose time.

Good luck

 

[workingclass]

update: just retested and I'm wondering if it is normal for sperm tests to get worse before it gets better when coming off (or down to 150 test)

still only pinning 150 test/week
7-9 units gh

and all vitamins and minerals I listed in my op are the same

today is almost exactly 1 month of just 150 test/week

I did not start the hcg/hmg yet because for whatever reason I was curious how my next test results would look without any of it
safe to say its absolutely needed at this point - as many have already said - I'll be looking to order tonight

I'm kind of wondering; did I fuck myself myself or set myself back by running the reta and slu once it came 3 weeks ago
slu has been 500mcg/day
reta was 1mg/week for week 1 and 2mg/week for weeks 2 & 3

everything I was reading was saying that it had no reported impact on male fertility and might help by lowering bodyfat in obese men

thoughts and help is always appreciated

 

[workingclass]

A few things I’ve learnt in the last few years.

Most labs grossly overestimate morphology due to lack of high end equipment. So don’t worry too much about that number. If you’re seeing numbers over 10% it’s likely wrong. Most men sit between 1-4%. Humans grossly overproduce sperm because we make low quality sperm on the whole. Under a high powered microscope sperm that looked morphologically normal, actually are not and can have tiny holes (like Swiss cheese for example).

On test motility will be higher, but so will oxidative damage. This affects dna fragmentation. The older you both are the more important this becomes. The woman is able to repair a degree of damage brought by the sperm, but as we age egg quality also diminishes which hampers this ability.

Specifically double stranded dna damage is now more focused on as the threshold for infertility is much lower. I personally have this issue.

At the start of your journey, pay for as much testing as you can afford. A good SA at a high end lab, dna frag and if they offer it, double stranded dna frag.

Have your gonadotropins tested (LH and FSH) but if you’re taking hcg and HmG they will be suppressed.

Karotype testing, y micro deletion etc is worth ruling out.

What im suggesting is, based on my experience, find out early if there’s any problems that can take much longer to address so you don’t lose time.

Good luck

I think I need to follow this and go to a real sperm test done. currently just using the at home test

 

[workingclass]

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update: just retested and I'm wondering if it is normal for sperm tests to get worse before it gets better when coming off (or down to 150 test)

still only pinning 150 test/week
7-9 units gh

and all vitamins and minerals I listed in my op are the same

today is almost exactly 1 month of just 150 test/week

I did not start the hcg/hmg yet because for whatever reason I was curious how my next test results would look without any of it
safe to say its absolutely needed at this point - as many have already said - I'll be looking to order tonight

I'm kind of wondering; did I fuck myself myself or set myself back by running the reta and slu once it came 3 weeks ago
slu has been 500mcg/day
reta was 1mg/week for week 1 and 2mg/week for weeks 2 & 3

everything I was reading was saying that it had no reported impact on male fertility and might help by lowering bodyfat in obese men

thoughts and help is always appreciated

forgot to add my motile sperm concentration