Fertility - my experience

[heroish]

Hi all,

Not an active member anymore but wanted to give an update on my experience with fertility and long term steroid use (over ten years on and 41 now). I searched the forum a lot and always found positive experiences quite heartening.

We have a child who is 18 months and my wife is currently pregnant again.

My protocol was 25mg clomid per day from day of my last injection and c. 3 x 1,500iu of HCG per week, lowering to 3 x 1,000iu after 8 weeks.

I also took 1,000mg of vitamin c, coq10, vit d with occasional use of l-carnitine, nac.

Sperm tests generally came in around 25-30m within 3-4 months. DNA fragmentation was less than 10% which is lower than expected from a 39yr old (when took test) - which i assume was supplements related.

Both times waited c. 8 weeks into the pregnancy until going back on trt with a confirmed heartbeat on ultrasound.

Def not fun being off but wasn’t terrible either after 10+ years of continuous use and on / off use in my 20s. I did use HCG 250iu x2 on majority of my steroid / trt use.

This was a fairly basic recovery protocol but it seemed to work well.

Good luck to anyone trying or planning to try soon.

 

[dieselbuilder]

Hi all,

Not an active member anymore but wanted to give an update on my experience with fertility and long term steroid use (over ten years on and 41 now). I searched the forum a lot and always found positive experiences quite heartening.

We have a child who is 18 months and my wife is currently pregnant again.

My protocol was 25mg clomid per day from day of my last injection and c. 3 x 1,500iu of HCG per week, lowering to 3 x 1,000iu after 8 weeks.

I also took 1,000mg of vitamin c, coq10, vit d with occasional use of l-carnitine, nac.

Sperm tests generally came in around 25-30m within 3-4 months. DNA fragmentation was less than 10% which is lower than expected from a 39yr old (when took test) - which i assume was supplements related.

Both times waited c. 8 weeks into the pregnancy until going back on trt with a confirmed heartbeat on ultrasound.

Def not fun being off but wasn’t terrible either after 10+ years of continuous use and on / off use in my 20s. I did use HCG 250iu x2 on majority of my steroid / trt use.

This was a fairly basic recovery protocol but it seemed to work well.

Good luck to anyone trying or planning to try soon.

Nice work. Did you consider HMG? Just curious. And congratulations to you and the missus on the pregnancy

 

[cage99]

Congrats on your new additions!!!! It’s always good to hear!!! As asked above, why no HMG?

Cage

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Congrats on the success man!
I have a 2 year old daughter and there is nothing better than being a dad.

Looking at your protocol and having discussed fertility with a tonnnnn of users/competitors, I actually feel like you’re an outlier. One…a hugely important thing u did which helped u immensely was BEING ON HCG for your entire gear use. Being blunt, that saved you time and effort. My guess, is that if you had not done that, the process would’ve been longer and much more difficult. You were smart. I think most guys get so wrapped up in their BBing career, they don’t even thiiibk about hcg use until they need it. I saw a highly respected fertility specialist and he echoed the same thing. Once/if u are fertile, you can keep that sustained by constant use of HCG. But if u fuck around without it, the process starts over. With that being said, I think hmg would’ve 1000% beeen necessary if not for your hcg use.

I don’t think u mentioned it above, but how long did you try for for each child. My wife and I are in a, “get thru this next conpetition” before we try again and I can already feeel the stress building lol

 

[astrosfan123]

Congrats on the success man!
I have a 2 year old daughter and there is nothing better than being a dad.

Looking at your protocol and having discussed fertility with a tonnnnn of users/competitors, I actually feel like you’re an outlier. One…a hugely important thing u did which helped u immensely was BEING ON HCG for your entire gear use. Being blunt, that saved you time and effort. My guess, is that if you had not done that, the process would’ve been longer and much more difficult. You were smart. I think most guys get so wrapped up in their BBing career, they don’t even thiiibk about hcg use until they need it. I saw a highly respected fertility specialist and he echoed the same thing. Once/if u are fertile, you can keep that sustained by constant use of HCG. But if u fuck around without it, the process starts over. With that being said, I think hmg would’ve 1000% beeen necessary if not for your hcg use.

I don’t think u mentioned it above, but how long did you try for for each child. My wife and I are in a, “get thru this next conpetition” before we try again and I can already feeel the stress building lol

Mixed answers on this. Do you agree it’s ok and recommend to stay on a true trt dose during fertility protocol ?

 

[heroish]

The first time we had issues with miscarriages which is why we ended up checking DNA fragmentation etc. It turned out my partner had an issue with clotting she needed to take blood thinners while pregnant for.

But all in all first time 14 months - but would have been lower if we found the issues sooner.

Second time four months and it was actually in our first month of officially trying it happened - so maybe a bit of luck.

I think timing is really important and partner measuring cycle length on phone apps, doing the pee tests, monitoring cervical mucus is really important to getting it right. First time we even tried the oura ring to monitor temps but that was overkill.

When libido / erection quality is poor you don’t want to have sex any more than you have to unfortunately. So, knowing that we emphasised the timing. We also talked about home insemination with a syringe if we really didn’t feel like doing it as a back up - she was supportive but we didn’t end up doing it.

Did need to use ED meds to get a good performance though.

I didn’t use HMG because at the time it was hard to get during covid in the UK. I thought I would try without for 3-4 months and then reassess - I would have got it without hesitation if sperm tests came back with issues.

I probably regret not getting a sperm test on trt but i read a few articles / youtube videos recommending coming off, so I just went along with it.

 

[TODouble2]

Congrats to you! My experience was much different. Took over 3 years trying and still had to do IVF. I never achieved a normal sperm count after trying everything.

I came off test and ran high dosed hcg, with clomid. Tried HMG as well. I don’t know of anyone else taking HMG and it not working.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Mixed answers on this. Do you agree it’s ok and recommend to stay on a true trt dose during fertility protocol ?

Ah suuuper individual man.

I came off and tried and tried...and it was NOT working. My sperm count actually went downnn being off.
Frustration came back so i jumped on 150mg a week and sperm count went uppp and success...

What IS weird i that i personally know more guys who have conceived while being ON trt doses than being OFF.
So its a strange thing. There are always outliers too. There are guys in this forum right now on full BLASTS who are fertile as hellll LOL.
Its truly a mind fuck.

PERSONALLY, if i were to give a handbook to someone. I would tell them to get on a lowish trt dose FIRST...and add their hcg + hmg to that. And at least tryyy this way for at least 6-9 months to see what is happening sperm test-wise. If shit is realllly not happening AND your levels are under 10 million, then just drop the test out and keep going.

 

[Sambo44]

Congrats on the success man!
I have a 2 year old daughter and there is nothing better than being a dad.

Looking at your protocol and having discussed fertility with a tonnnnn of users/competitors, I actually feel like you’re an outlier. One…a hugely important thing u did which helped u immensely was BEING ON HCG for your entire gear use. Being blunt, that saved you time and effort. My guess, is that if you had not done that, the process would’ve been longer and much more difficult. You were smart. I think most guys get so wrapped up in their BBing career, they don’t even thiiibk about hcg use until they need it. I saw a highly respected fertility specialist and he echoed the same thing. Once/if u are fertile, you can keep that sustained by constant use of HCG. But if u fuck around without it, the process starts over. With that being said, I think hmg would’ve 1000% beeen necessary if not for your hcg use.

I don’t think u mentioned it above, but how long did you try for for each child. My wife and I are in a, “get thru this next conpetition” before we try again and I can already feeel the stress building lol

How rare is it for you to be permanently sterile from long term steroid use with no hcg or anything in the mix during that time in your opinion? I mean with hcg , hmg , clomid etc, you would think most would recover with fertility drugs and time right ? I’ve heard of guys running 2 grams plus gear but with a powerful fertility protocol they don’t even have to come off

 

[Gizmo]

^
Meant to quote you

Yes most will recover, as has been shown in studies. It is even thought that the people that do not recover already had pre existing fertility issues. This is a lot more common than most people think.

I ran cycles for over 15 years and was on TRT (and cycles) for a decade before I tried to get my sperm count back. I had never used HCG or anything else to maintain fertility. I came off TRT, took clomid for a while and came back with a normal sperm count, and now have a 2 year old toddler hurricane at home.

 

[Sambo44]

^
Meant to quote you

Yes most will recover, as has been shown in studies. It is even thought that the people that do not recover already had pre existing fertility issues. This is a lot more common than most people think.

I ran cycles for over 15 years and was on TRT (and cycles) for a decade before I tried to get my sperm count back. I had never used HCG or anything else to maintain fertility. I came off TRT, took clomid for a while and came back with a normal sperm count, and now have a 2 year old toddler hurricane at home.

That’s great brother, happy to hear that

 

[Sambo44]

^
Meant to quote you

Yes most will recover, as has been shown in studies. It is even thought that the people that do not recover already had pre existing fertility issues. This is a lot more common than most people think.

I ran cycles for over 15 years and was on TRT (and cycles) for a decade before I tried to get my sperm count back. I had never used HCG or anything else to maintain fertility. I came off TRT, took clomid for a while and came back with a normal sperm count, and now have a 2 year old toddler hurricane at home.

Btw ,how long did it take you when you came off trt and ran clomid to have a kid ? No hcg either ? Yeah that’s impressive, clomid is the weakest link in fertility chain lol , hcg and hmg are supposed to be the powerhouses, again , impressive

 

[Sambo44]

Congrats to you! My experience was much different. Took over 3 years trying and still had to do IVF. I never achieved a normal sperm count after trying everything.

I came off test and ran high dosed hcg, with clomid. Tried HMG as well. I don’t know of anyone else taking HMG and it not working.

I’m sorry to hear that man , I’m wondering if you weren’t sterile even before you started gear like the one gentleman was speaking about ? Brother have you ever tried this ? 2500iu hcg eod , 75mg hmg EOD , 50mg clomid Ed , hcg and hmg are always run on opposite days , not my protocol, Dave palumbos ,so take that for what it’s worth lol , but lots of great results I hear from that protocol , do you remember your exact protocol? either way I’m sorry to hear that you had such a hard time but it sounds like you have a kid through IVF or kids now ,so congratulations on that

 

[Gizmo]

Btw ,how long did it take you when you came off trt and ran clomid to have a kid ? No hcg either ? Yeah that’s impressive, clomid is the weakest link in fertility chain lol , hcg and hmg are supposed to be the powerhouses, again , impressive

There’s a bit more to the story I guess. I also had had a vasectomy and lost a testicle to cancer (also had chemotherapy) when I was young, so I already had more stuff going against me than most. That is why we went to IVF route and extracted sperm from the testicle. I think I was on Clomid between 3-6 months. I don’t exactly remember. But the point still remains that my sperm count was normal. I have to add that my fertility urologist was surprised that my count was that good, but not because of TRT, but really my age and the chemo I had when I was 21.

And clomid stimulates your brain to make LH and FSH, so to me it makes sense that it worked well (if your brain responds well). I was in the low normal range on testosterone levels when I was on it. I could feel it started to work a few weeks in.

 

[Sambo44]

There’s a bit more to the story I guess. I also had had a vasectomy and lost a testicle to cancer (also had chemotherapy) when I was young, so I already had more stuff going against me than most. That is why we went to IVF route and extracted sperm from the testicle. I think I was on Clomid between 3-6 months. I don’t exactly remember. But the point still remains that my sperm count was normal. I have to add that my fertility urologist was surprised that my count was that good, but not because of TRT, but really my age and the chemo I had when I was 21.

And clomid stimulates your brain to make LH and FSH, so to me it makes sense that it worked well (if your brain responds well). I was in the low normal range on testosterone levels when I was on it. I could feel it started to work a few weeks in.

That’s even more impressive lol , wow man glad you were able to be successful and being through all that , come out ok , but again , that makes it even more impressive my man , congrats again

 

[TODouble2]

I’m sorry to hear that man , I’m wondering if you weren’t sterile even before you started gear like the one gentleman was speaking about ? Brother have you ever tried this ? 2500iu hcg eod , 75mg hmg EOD , 50mg clomid Ed , hcg and hmg are always run on opposite days , not my protocol, Dave palumbos ,so take that for what it’s worth lol , but lots of great results I hear from that protocol , do you remember your exact protocol? either way I’m sorry to hear that you had such a hard time but it sounds like you have a kid through IVF or kids now ,so congratulations on that

I don’t remember exactly but it was I believe 1500 hcg every other day. hMG was on the other days.. and clomid I remember being every other day…. I don’t think a small tweak in protocol would have made the difference.

I also feel that maybe I had issues to begin with. All this and I never achieved a count above 4 million.

And I took the meds for a year and a half too if I remember correctly.

 

[punjabipunjab]

Congrats to you! My experience was much different. Took over 3 years trying and still had to do IVF. I never achieved a normal sperm count after trying everything.

I came off test and ran high dosed hcg, with clomid. Tried HMG as well. I don’t know of anyone else taking HMG and it not working.

I been on hcg and hmg from past 8 months sperm count still 0 I did a home test it says I got 2 million. But when I went to lab and got it tested it was 0. Will be doing biopsies

 

[bensif]

How rare is it for you to be permanently sterile from long term steroid use with no hcg or anything in the mix during that time in your opinion? I mean with hcg , hmg , clomid etc, you would think most would recover with fertility drugs and time right ? I’ve heard of guys running 2 grams plus gear but with a powerful fertility protocol they don’t even have to come off

This is what I’m doing at the moment after we had a total failure from our last ivf cycle. 6 high quality blastocysts, 2 miscarriages and 4 failures.

Last time I came off completely for I think about 6-7 months; after 3 months whilst taking hcg and hmg for about 9 months at that point my sperm was around 30m per ml but high dna frag. Had varicocele surgery.

This time I’m trying what justin Harris suggested I do originally which is what you’re referring to. Hcg 6000iu per week, 300iu hmg, 25mg clomid daily and 2g test (although I’m at 1.5 as it’s gotten painful lol).

It’s been about 5 weeks so far, so il retest in about 3-5 weeks.

Since the test went in my motility has dramatically improved to around 70%. But morphology and count as still down. Morphology will be my thyroid which I’ll correct and the count should come up soon with the above.

 

[Primoo]

What dosages of HCG and HMG are you guys taking ?

 

[Sambo44]

This is what I’m doing at the moment after we had a total failure from our last ivf cycle. 6 high quality blastocysts, 2 miscarriages and 4 failures.

Last time I came off completely for I think about 6-7 months; after 3 months whilst taking hcg and hmg for about 9 months at that point my sperm was around 30m per ml but high dna frag. Had varicocele surgery.

This time I’m trying what justin Harris suggested I do originally which is what you’re referring to. Hcg 6000iu per week, 300iu hmg, 25mg clomid daily and 2g test (although I’m at 1.5 as it’s gotten painful lol).

It’s been about 5 weeks so far, so il retest in about 3-5 weeks.

Since the test went in my motility has dramatically improved to around 70%. But morphology and count as still down. Morphology will be my thyroid which I’ll correct and the count should come up soon with the above.

Sorry to hear you’ve had so much trouble,That’s great though something is improving, to me buddy with the miscarriages and all , it sounds like she might have some fertility problems, is that the case also ? I hope not , I hope it’s you not her because yours would be easier to fix, hopefully ,I don’t know your whole situation but a woman’s fertility gets a little tricky you know and technically we as men never totally lose our fertility like women do , I hope it works out for you man , good luck to the both of you