Fertility, what i've been through.

[TODouble2]

I read through tons of fertility threads.. and it seems in the end everyone reports good news. i'm just wondering if anyone has actually gone totally sterile without recovering..

i tried every fertility drug while on a little test.. around 150mg a week test, and hcg, hmg, clomid were all run for a long time. throughout all this ive had sperm counts ranging from zero to 9 million... it took me too damn long to realize that i had to come off the testosterone.

so now its been over 4 months without test, 2500iu hcg 3 times a week and 50mg clomid every other day. just tested again and i have 1 active sperm, which basically means nothing, i'm sterile.

my wife and I went through 3 in-vitro procedures. all failed. im thinking there was something wrong with the sperm use for the embryos. i dont know how else to explain what happened.

so again, im just wondering if anyone else has been in this position for this long, and how long did it take you to start producing sperm again?

 

[monster-ish]

I would run a proper pct and see where that gets you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TODouble2]

I would run a proper pct and see where that gets you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

im taking pct drugs, as prescribed by my urologist. so if you mean something differenct would you care to elaborate?

 

[monster-ish]

Well, hcg is suppressive to naturally test production. So it's kind of counter productive to run hcg and clomid at the same time. Drop the hcg and run nolva and clomid together for 4-6 weeks. Clomid- 50/50/25/25
Nolv- 40/40/20/20

Unless you are not trying to regain naturally test production and just trying to produce sperm(which hcg should do it) this is what I would do


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TODouble2]

Well, hcg is suppressive to naturally test production. So it's kind of counter productive to run hcg and clomid at the same time. Drop the hcg and run nolva and clomid together for 4-6 weeks. Clomid- 50/50/25/25
Nolv- 40/40/20/20

Unless you are not trying to regain naturally test production and just trying to produce sperm(which hcg should do it) this is what I would do


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i'm only worried about regaining sperm, and i'm under the impression that the protocol im doing it good for that.

i haven't come off hormones for the past 7 years prior to this, and hardly ever used hcg. im not sure recovering testosterone levels is an option for me. who knows. im just trying to regain sperm production at all costs.

 

[monster-ish]

Ok I get ya. The only thing I can think of would be that your testys are desensitized from the lh signal that hcg produces. And I don't have an answer as to how to get that sensitized again. Maybe another more knowledgable member can chime in. Good luck bro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ALLEX]

Somebody needs to be honest here:

You only hear good news because most guys won't report bad ones.

Not every juicer recovers the ability to conceive. That's the truth.

 

[TODouble2]

Somebody needs to be honest here:



You only hear good news because most guys won't report bad ones.



Not every juicer recovers the ability to conceive. That's the truth.

This is what I'm talking about.. I feel like every thread on fertility is all guys reporting good news.

And most of the pros I can think of have children. It makes me wonder what the odds really are.

 

[tenny]

maybe you weren't fertile to begin with....

:lightbulb:

 

[TODouble2]

maybe you weren't fertile to begin with....



:lightbulb:

I've had counts that were low, but not zero. 9 million sperm was the highest I've shown. I just find it odd that I've shown higher amounts while on test then while off.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Ok I get ya. The only thing I can think of would be that your testys are desensitized from the lh signal that hcg produces. And I don't have an answer as to how to get that sensitized again. Maybe another more knowledgable member can chime in. Good luck bro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3 grams of taurine a day

 

[TODouble2]

3 grams of taurine a day

Is this to help with the desensitizing of the testes? I already take taurine everyday but probably not 3 grams

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I read through tons of fertility threads.. and it seems in the end everyone reports good news. i'm just wondering if anyone has actually gone totally sterile without recovering..

i tried every fertility drug while on a little test.. around 150mg a week test, and hcg, hmg, clomid were all run for a long time. throughout all this ive had sperm counts ranging from zero to 9 million... it took me too damn long to realize that i had to come off the testosterone.

so now its been over 4 months without test, 2500iu hcg 3 times a week and 50mg clomid every other day. just tested again and i have 1 active sperm, which basically means nothing, i'm sterile.

my wife and I went through 3 in-vitro procedures. all failed. im thinking there was something wrong with the sperm use for the embryos. i dont know how else to explain what happened.

so again, im just wondering if anyone else has been in this position for this long, and how long did it take you to start producing sperm again?

So what does that tell you.....it gives you the answer. HMG was your key....Get off the test and get on the hcg hmg clomid and nolvadex and be patient as this stuff can take 18 months...get on 3 grams of taurine also

 

[Flex500]

I read through tons of fertility threads.. and it seems in the end everyone reports good news. i'm just wondering if anyone has actually gone totally sterile without recovering..

i tried every fertility drug while on a little test.. around 150mg a week test, and hcg, hmg, clomid were all run for a long time. throughout all this ive had sperm counts ranging from zero to 9 million... it took me too damn long to realize that i had to come off the testosterone.

so now its been over 4 months without test, 2500iu hcg 3 times a week and 50mg clomid every other day. just tested again and i have 1 active sperm, which basically means nothing, i'm sterile.

my wife and I went through 3 in-vitro procedures. all failed. im thinking there was something wrong with the sperm use for the embryos. i dont know how else to explain what happened.

so again, im just wondering if anyone else has been in this position for this long, and how long did it take you to start producing sperm again?

What was your count BEFORE hormones? I have never seen someone with a fully normal account in functional as an adult male not able to recover. Some take a few months some 12-18 but I have not seen or heard of 1 that never did. That is also coming from my endo. Don't get me wrong I'm sure it happens but if someone is a 100% healthy adult male before taking hormones and has a full, normal, healthy count the overwhelming majority will recover.

The ones I see hat don't are trying to recover while on trt (it won't happen for many) or had pre existing issues.

 

[Reno911]

As Dante said- expect some time here. 18 months is def reasonable depending on your gear use history. I have NOT known any gear users not being able to conceive but in all cases where it's taken time, the person has needed to come completely off and also run the proper support medications for 12-18 months. 4 months is nothing.

 

[Flex500]

So what does that tell you.....it gives you the answer. HMG was your key....Get off the test and get on the hcg hmg clomid and nolvadex and be patient as this stuff can take 18 months...get on 3 grams of taurine also

This! Guarantee he will have a normal count if he does this IF he previously had a normal count befor hormones.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Preserving fertility in the hypogonadal patient: an update

Concomitant intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin preserves spermatogenesis in men undergoing testosterone replacement therapy. - PubMed - NCBI

It is freaking amazing to me and im bitter about it even today at how much shit I caught back in 1999 when i told everyone about blasting and cruising (which are common words used today that came directly from me)...and I proposed that people should do shorter cycles and send intermittent signals using hcg clomid and nolvadex (all that was available at that time) for 7-21 days between short blasts......so as to never drive themselves into a domant state. I caught so much flack for my theory, with endless arguments online....huge battles on message boards.....but I believed in my theory while others thought I was full of shit and PCT drugs should be dumped in the garbage....here we are 17 years or so later and whoa....seems alot of what I was proposing and theorizing came to fruition.....and its the direct reasons my trainees never disintegrated into looking like nonlifters when they got off the sauce and also the reason my trainees were able to have children when they ended up deciding to have children. Ive caught alot of flack over the years with stuff that nowadays seems like "common wordspeak" to alot of you guys in the bodybuilding world...from "blasting/crusing", use of good fats/oils when lowfat/and "fat is evil" at the time was the rage, extreme stretching (proved out once again), higher frequency of training which seems to be getting uber popular right now,....multiple arguments back in the day on many of these subjects which has resulted with me getting the "I told you so" today in the end.....but these HPTA ones stick with me because I remember 2 distinctive individuals taking me to task back in the day...blasting me on a board that isnt around any more...saying some real disparaging stuff about me personally.....where are you now that this has come full circle and the exact things you were arguing about are kicking you in the face?

Ok rant over.......... sorry

 

[11111]

Preserving fertility in the hypogonadal patient: an update

Concomitant intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin preserves spermatogenesis in men undergoing testosterone replacement therapy. - PubMed - NCBI

It is freaking amazing to me and im bitter about it even today at how much shit I caught back in 1999 when i told everyone about blasting and cruising (which are common words used today that came directly from me)...and I proposed that people should do shorter cycles and send intermittent signals using hcg clomid and nolvadex (all that was available at that time) for 7-21 days between short blasts......so as to never drive themselves into a domant state. I caught so much flack for my theory, with endless arguments online....huge battles on message boards.....but I believed in my theory while others thought I was full of shit and PCT drugs should be dumped in the garbage....here we are 17 years or so later and whoa....seems alot of what I was proposing and theorizing came to fruition.....and its the direct reasons my trainees never disintegrated into looking like nonlifters when they got off the sauce and also the reason my trainees were able to have children when they ended up deciding to have children. Ive caught alot of flack over the years with stuff that nowadays seems like "common wordspeak" to alot of you guys in the bodybuilding world...from "blasting/crusing", use of good fats/oils when lowfat/and "fat is evil" at the time was the rage, extreme stretching (proved out once again), higher frequency of training which seems to be getting uber popular right now,....multiple arguments back in the day on many of these subjects which has resulted with me getting the "I told you so" today in the end.....but these HPTA ones stick with me because I remember 2 distinctive individuals taking me to task back in the day...blasting me on a board that isnt around any more...saying some real disparaging stuff about me personally.....where are you now that this has come full circle and the exact things you were arguing about are kicking you in the face?

Ok rant over.......... sorry

lol, DC I remember one in particular that you had with bobo the anabolic minds guy.... not sure why that one sticks out but I remember you guys going back and forth for a while

 

[Marvin Martian]

Well, hcg is suppressive to naturally test production. So it's kind of counter productive to run hcg and clomid at the same time. Drop the hcg and run nolva and clomid together for 4-6 weeks. Clomid- 50/50/25/25
Nolv- 40/40/20/20

Unless you are not trying to regain naturally test production and just trying to produce sperm(which hcg should do it) this is what I would do


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Look at DC post. HCG should definitely NOT be dropped. HCG and clomid are used together in fertility treatment

 

[TODouble2]

What was your count BEFORE hormones? I have never seen someone with a fully normal account in functional as an adult male not able to recover. Some take a few months some 12-18 but I have not seen or heard of 1 that never did. That is also coming from my endo. Don't get me wrong I'm sure it happens but if someone is a 100% healthy adult male before taking hormones and has a full, normal, healthy count the overwhelming majority will recover.

The ones I see hat don't are trying to recover while on trt (it won't happen for many) or had pre existing issues.

`i was never checked before hormones. i started when i was 19 and hadn't even thought about having kids yet. im 31 now