First Cycle -- Look Good? -- Low Dosage

[BGIZZLE4200]

Hey, whats up everyone?? I am new to this particular forum.... Anyway, I need another opinion on what/how I should go about my first "real" cycle.
Stats: 6' 180lbs, 20yrs, 2yrs of Solid Training, Good Diet, 16-18% B/F

This is what my cycle will look like (already have TEST, Nolva, and Prov.):
Test. Cyp. -- 350-500mg/wk for 8-12wks
Arimidex or Femara -- .25mg/ed or eod throughout
Finestride -- .25-1mg/ed or eod throughout

Here is the PCT:
WEEK 11 : 40mg Nolva/100mg Clomid/50mg Proviron Every Day
WEEK 12 : 30mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid/50mg Proviron Every Day
WEEK 13: 20mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid/25mg Proviron Every Day


Now, I have several questions for you:
1) Do you think that I should get an x-ray on my growth plates before cycling??
2) I am using the AI to combat water retention/gyno (think Im prone to it, also trying to avoid aromatization) but, how much exactly should I take and how frequent (ed or eod)??
3) How much of the Finestride should I take? I believe I am prone to MPB as well...
4) I have read a few threads on how much TEST to take for a 1st cycle -- some say no more than 350mg/wk -- others say 400-600 is fine. So what do you think??
5) How long should this cycle be? I was originally going to go for 12wks, then changed my mind to 10wks, now I am rethinking again and may just do 8wks. What do you think??
6) How does the PCT look?? Is the Proviron a little bit of overkill?? I was going to incorporate that in there to keep my libido up and also just to help with keeping gains/combating estrogen sides...
7) Do you think the PCT should be longer? Say 45-50 days instead of 21??
8) Also do you think adding a periodical HCG inj. @ 300-500iu/4-5th day in wks 4 and 8 would be a good idea??

I planned on starting the proviron the day of my last test inj. -- then incorporating the nolva and clomid about 15-18 days after that inj....

My bad about all of the questions.... I have been researching now for around at least 10-12 months and I have read so many conflicting arguments about cycle dosage, duration, pct dosage, chemicals to use, duration of use and I am just confused about a lot of things and need some serious clarification. Can you help me out?? I really appreciate any info., suggestions, comments, or criticism. Thanks again!

 

[PHreak48]

In all honesty you are too young and have too little training experience to consider AAS, you have no where near maxed out your genetic potential, and cycling now would hurt you in the long run!

 

[Malic777.com]

dont go under 600mg/week if youre doing test only...350mg/week will just shut down your natural test and replace it...the PCT is overkill you dont need more than 20mg/day nolva and 100mg/day clo in the first week then reduce by 50% for the next 2 weeks...youre too young...wait for a couple of years more you wont be sorry...alex

 

[Dad]

I agree with both of these guys - give it a few more years of HARD training, diet, and physical maturation, and then, maybe if you're serious about competing, consider AAS.

 

[Mini Monster]

Listen to the guys ,they are all here to help you . Me i think the same wait until you reach your full potential first then try it later(imo)

 

[doug1]

he's already got the goods, aint no way in hell he's gonna wait, so advice accordingly.

 

[BGIZZLE4200]

yea, I am about 99% sure that I want to go through with this, I may wait another 6 months or so, after I turn 21 and have a little bit more training under my belt but i dunno.... wont my juice go bad or something??

I really do not want to wait another 3 years or so to reach my "natural potential" I mean, I really havent had that great of results as far as building quality muscle mass since I have been hitting the gym.... maybe I am doing something wrong I dunno

Any advice on this cycle for the future would be appreciated though

 

[SVFootball]

well what's your training and diet like?

if that's the problem...these guys can help you fix it

they helped me a ton...i thought i couldnt gain quality mass. ive put on a ton of size and strength quickly...without AAS

i was set on using and ended up not....one of the best decisions ive made to date

 

[doug1]

hernon would tell you that your bf level is too high right now, he doesn't like bulking unless your closer to 10% bf

 

[BGIZZLE4200]

hernon would tell you that your bf level is too high right now, he doesn't like bulking unless your closer to 10% bf

Yea, I have heard that as well..... its really hard for me to cut b/f right now though for some reason. I used to be around like 230lbs with like 20-25% body fat and now I am at like 180 w/ between 16-18% so I have come a long way but its just hard to maintain my weight and get stronger while trying to cut body fat you know??

well what's your training and diet like? Well, I eat good food. I dont eat anything with trans fat or any fried foods-- I probably take in around 3000-4000cals/day with like between 50-70 grams of fat, 150-200g of Protein, and like 150-250 carbs but like I said above, it seems really hard for me to put on muscle mass while trying to cut b/f and get stronger.....if that's the problem...these guys can help you fix it

they helped me a ton...i thought i couldnt gain quality mass. ive put on a ton of size and strength quickly...without AAS
I would definitely like to put on more size and strength naturally but I dont have the time to eat like 6-9 meals/day like a lot of people... I work and go to school both full time so--I am not trying to complain about not having time or anything but it is just really hard b/c I always have a full schedule everyday of my life and sometimes it is even hard for me to hit the gym but I do that no matter what anyways

i was set on using and ended up not....one of the best decisions ive made to date
Im not sure what I am gonna do--I know that I am worried about using AAS too early and then not being able to grow any more naturally afterward-- b/c I lot of people have said that you really cant grow anymore after using AAS so I dunno

Thanks for the help guys

 

[Steak Helmet]

yea, I am about 99% sure that I want to go through with this, I may wait another 6 months or so, after I turn 21 and have a little bit more training under my belt but i dunno.... wont my juice go bad or something??

I really do not want to wait another 3 years or so to reach my "natural potential" I mean, I really havent had that great of results as far as building quality muscle mass since I have been hitting the gym.... maybe I am doing something wrong I dunno

Any advice on this cycle for the future would be appreciated though

looks to me like you have a lot more research to do...wait or you will regret it later.... it looks pretty good for "LATER."

 

[SVFootball]

hernon would tell you that your bf level is too high right now, he doesn't like bulking unless your closer to 10% bf

Yea, I have heard that as well..... its really hard for me to cut b/f right now though for some reason. I used to be around like 230lbs with like 20-25% body fat and now I am at like 180 w/ between 16-18% so I have come a long way but its just hard to maintain my weight and get stronger while trying to cut body fat you know??

well what's your training and diet like? Well, I eat good food. I dont eat anything with trans fat or any fried foods-- I probably take in around 3000-4000cals/day with like between 50-70 grams of fat, 150-200g of Protein, and like 150-250 carbs but like I said above, it seems really hard for me to put on muscle mass while trying to cut b/f and get stronger.....if that's the problem...these guys can help you fix it

they helped me a ton...i thought i couldnt gain quality mass. ive put on a ton of size and strength quickly...without AAS
I would definitely like to put on more size and strength naturally but I dont have the time to eat like 6-9 meals/day like a lot of people... I work and go to school both full time so--I am not trying to complain about not having time or anything but it is just really hard b/c I always have a full schedule everyday of my life and sometimes it is even hard for me to hit the gym but I do that no matter what anyways

i was set on using and ended up not....one of the best decisions ive made to date
Im not sure what I am gonna do--I know that I am worried about using AAS too early and then not being able to grow any more naturally afterward-- b/c I lot of people have said that you really cant grow anymore after using AAS so I dunno

Thanks for the help guys

a lot of guys would say ur not takin in enough protein. up it to around 300-350g a day. and you HAVE to eat 6-8 times a day. AAS wont help this...."on" you have to eat MORE!

 

[Zuke]

Dude, you SERIOUSLY need to research more.....LOL.. You said you eat between 3000-4000 cals a say. Then you go on to say:

" between 50-70 grams of fat, 150-200g of Protein, and like 150-250 carbs"


Thats 1650 - 2430 calories. Things just don't add up. As for time. Why dont you spend from 10pm to midnite EVERY nite making your meals for the next day. You can put them all in tupperware and bring them with you thru out the day? You can wake up in the middle of the nite and eat! There is PLENTY you are NOT DOING!

Your bodyfat is too high. You need to get leaner.

 

[BGIZZLE4200]

Dude, you SERIOUSLY need to research more.....LOL.. You said you eat between 3000-4000 cals a say. Then you go on to say:

" between 50-70 grams of fat, 150-200g of Protein, and like 150-250 carbs"


Thats 1650 - 2430 calories. Things just don't add up. As for time. Why dont you spend from 10pm to midnite EVERY nite making your meals for the next day. You can put them all in tupperware and bring them with you thru out the day? You can wake up in the middle of the nite and eat! There is PLENTY you are NOT DOING!

Your bodyfat is too high. You need to get leaner.

Haha. Ok dude. from 7am to 1am I am busy doing sh*t every night so I dont know what you are talking about as far as how I should use my time. Like I said I work full-time, go to school full time and hit the gym afterward. And like I said earlier people--how am I supposed to lose body fat if I need to eat, and eat?? Trust me I am doing a lot, obviously it isnt enough though.

And as far as eating 6-8 times/day--Do you have any idea what it is like to have to go from job to job everyday, installing and servicing fire protection equipment?? What am I supposed to do, carry around cold grilled chicken breasts and rice and eat it 3-5 times per day on top of my breakfast lunch and dinner?? I mean I can carry around some protein shakes, weight gainer, and granola bars or something but as far as having cold meals.... dunno bout that one

So how am I supposed to cut body fat and add mucle mass/strength at the same time?? Am i supposed to do cardio on non workout days or something?? I dont have a treadmill so I would have to go to the gym for that... and honestly I do not have the time to go to the gym 6-7 times/wk??

Can somebody help me out rather than saying that Im fat, need more research, and need to eat more??? Also, i have had plenty of research so if something that I am saying doesnt make any sense then can you just help me out rather than telling me that I need more research?? Thanks. Not tryin to be a prick or anything

 

[Zuke]

You have go to be the most negative person I have heard in a while.Do you measure and weight each meal you cook or eat to get the exact nutritional breakdown? Do you keep exact totals? Do you use a workout journal and record reps and poundages? YES, carry around 5 meals with you all day so you can eat them 2hrs apart. Some can be whole food, and other can be MRP's.

Yes, do cardio on your days off! Get ur ass up early and do it before you eat. The more you eat, the more you lose. When you eat 6-8 small meals a day your body will start to burn fat for energy, becuase you r body is getting nutrients regularly. It is when you only eat 2x -3x a day your body will start to hold fat. Thats is why when you are bulking you want cut back the amount of meals and when you are cutting you want to increase. I know guys that eat 9x-10x a day when dieting for a comp.If you did research you would know this. This is nutrition 101.

If you want a good place to start go look at BigA's article about dieting down for a competition, you can fine tune it for your purpose. You will drop bodyfat VERY quickly and look TOTALLY different in 9 weeks. Stop looking for the easy way out. Nobody is gonna think its a good idea.

Two years of training is HARDY enough time. Maybe 6-7 years would be better. Max out your genetic potential first. Then use. Whats the rush? Oh and BTW, how does 200g Protein, 250g Carbs and 70g Fat = 4000 calories?

 

[shapeup]

Not to be an A$$, but let's hear some responses from you guys that are vets.

1st
How old were you when you did your first AAS cycle.?
How many years of training Experience and great diet did you have?

2nd
If Diet/Training are already on track, does is there any evidence to suggest that you have to be at your "genetic potential" to make great gains safely and keep them.? (assuming the first before the later and the first remains after the cycle)

Did any of you REALLY reach your "genetic potential" before you cycled?

3rd
This is just some of my thoughts. Now being that I"m only 21 and you guys are OLD I know I am just a confused jerk kid to you, but please answer nicely .

To me, this issue of "genetic potential" is ridiculous. I seriously doubt anyone can EVER reach genetic potential in their ENTIRE LIFE. SO please stop using it to deter users who are young.

To me, One should have a good KNOWLEDGE of how to train, but lets not act like you have to have already tried it ALL before you can cycle effectively and safely.

TO me, One should have a PERFECT diet to even THINK about steroids, getting the most out of substances is VERY important. And I think it's just as and even more important than the EXACT kind of training you use. Obviously training is VERY important. And if ou don't understand, some simple things like, volume, intensity, tempo, rest, eccentric, concentric, and can't name ALL them muscles than you shouldn't think about using AAS.

TO me, eating clean and understanding PCT seems to be the most important thing to cycle safely REGARLESS OF AGE! Some old guys think it's ok to not eat as clean just because...well they NEED the Roids and they have REACHED THEIR GENETIC POTENTIAL BECAUSE THEY TRAINED FOR 12 YEARS FIRST!!!!!!!!:action:sm

Now let me just say that I don't think the individual who posted this is even close to being ready.

First off, If you can't get you body fat under 10% I seriously think it ridiculous to think you understand your diet. If you don't have time to do it right, DONT DO AAS! IF your fat is too high you just plain won't get as good of results.

Second, 6-9 meals is too much, but if you can't handle getting 5-6 meals then don't do AAS.

Third, your diet looks bad, you need to get it right first and you should find out what your BMR is first. If you don't know this stuff please don't think about AAS,

 

[alteredbeast]

Haha. Ok dude. from 7am to 1am I am busy doing sh*t every night so I dont know what you are talking about as far as how I should use my time. Like I said I work full-time, go to school full time and hit the gym afterward. And like I said earlier people--how am I supposed to lose body fat if I need to eat, and eat?? Trust me I am doing a lot, obviously it isnt enough though.

And as far as eating 6-8 times/day--Do you have any idea what it is like to have to go from job to job everyday, installing and servicing fire protection equipment?? What am I supposed to do, carry around cold grilled chicken breasts and rice and eat it 3-5 times per day on top of my breakfast lunch and dinner?? I mean I can carry around some protein shakes, weight gainer, and granola bars or something but as far as having cold meals.... dunno bout that one

So how am I supposed to cut body fat and add mucle mass/strength at the same time?? Am i supposed to do cardio on non workout days or something?? I dont have a treadmill so I would have to go to the gym for that... and honestly I do not have the time to go to the gym 6-7 times/wk??

Can somebody help me out rather than saying that Im fat, need more research, and need to eat more??? Also, i have had plenty of research so if something that I am saying doesnt make any sense then can you just help me out rather than telling me that I need more research?? Thanks. Not tryin to be a prick or anything

Maybe you'll listen to me, cause I'm not gonna tell you that you're fat, that you need more research, or that you need to eat more.

What I am going to tell you to do is simplify your life. You've got too much going on right now to do a cycle. I think now is the time for you to focus on school and work. Doing a cycle properly takes a lot of time and energy and if you start one now something's gonna suffer. Wait until you're done school - this will free up time and by then you'll probably have a better paying job which will allow you to take your training and supplementation to the next level.

I started my first cycle at 20 and regret it. I honestly don't think my bones had reached there full size - I think my shoulder width and frame would've been bigger and provided a better natural base had I waited. Ultimately I would've had better results if I had waited. Patience, Grasshopper.

At your age I think it's better to spend time with your friends, get to the gym as much as possible, but get a girlfriend and get your education. Don't worry so much about being the man with the muscles right now, that will come.

As for eating cold chicken breasts and rice... you damn right you should! You're not the only busy one on here bro. I spend a good portion of sundays just cooking to prep all my meals for the week following. A lot of us on here don't have much of a social life cause we're busting our asses at work, in the gym, in the kitchen, and then getting to bed early so that we can achieve our dream. That's what it takes. So if you're not going to eat those chicken breasts because they're cold, send them over to me, it'll free up some time on Sunday for me so I can train a bit longer.

 

[balla06]

99% sure u wanna go thru with it, so whats the 1% why u doubt urself? could that ONE % be enough to stop u? could that one % be the changing factor of maybe somethin bad happening to u if u use AAS? most cases no but i will say this an dim not tryin to be a dick and tell u what to do, its ur body ur choice, u want to be guided in the right way, ill give u as much advice as i can if YOU have to do. i dont want u fuckin urself up even more

first off im young im 22. i was a jack ass and exp with AAS at a VERY young age and didnt knwo what the fuck i was doing but hey i did it. an dim lucky to say that nothing happen to me, that i kno wbout, maybe i coulda grown a bit more owell. i made my choice but i was 100% sure i wanted to it not 99%

my point is if there is that small percentage that u r not totally sure then why do it?


and bro, AAS is no magic shot or magic pill, u grow off how u eat and train, if u dont have the lifestyle to eat at least 6 meals a day and get enough sleep then u dont have enough time for AAS simple as that


take the advice here form these bros. it will go along way brother, trust me!


no one is tryin to be a dick here truly, jus lookin out for u thats all


BBding is about dedication not AAS, u got to have a solid core and a solid foundation and exp before u can jus go shootin shit up in u

break it all down to simple terms for u bro, u got a car right lets say a nova (bc i have a 69 nova haha) anyways, the motor is jus a regular old small block 350, everything stock, now i can go 2 dif ways about it, one i can make it fast in a hurry and jus throw soem NOS on it and spray a 300 shot and will i fly down the track? MAYBE, whos to say it jus doesnt blow up right then and there when i juice it? but lets say it doesnt blow right then, that stock 350 aint gna be able to hold the beating and the power and the abuse for too long and it will soon crash and blow and i will have gained nothing but wastin my time and money


on the other hand i can save my money, learn and read and buy the core parts i need and the things that will with hold and can handle the NOS. the process may take a little longer and cost more time blood sweat and tears but u knwo what, in the end MY SHITS GNA WHIP THE FUCK OUTTA ALLLLLL THE DUMB FUCKS WHO TRIED TO GO THE EASY WAY OUT!!! and thats fact brutha!



ok story time is over form balla06 now


hope u can relate in some way and i hope u make the right choice

best of luck to u

 

[alteredbeast]

break it all down to simple terms for u bro, u got a car right lets say a nova (bc i have a 69 nova haha) anyways, the motor is jus a regular old small block 350, everything stock, now i can go 2 dif ways about it, one i can make it fast in a hurry and jus throw soem NOS on it and spray a 300 shot and will i fly down the track? MAYBE, whos to say it jus doesnt blow up right then and there when i juice it? but lets say it doesnt blow right then, that stock 350 aint gna be able to hold the beating and the power and the abuse for too long and it will soon crash and blow and i will have gained nothing but wastin my time and money


on the other hand i can save my money, learn and read and buy the core parts i need and the things that will with hold and can handle the NOS. the process may take a little longer and cost more time blood sweat and tears but u knwo what, in the end MY SHITS GNA WHIP THE FUCK OUTTA ALLLLLL THE DUMB FUCKS WHO TRIED TO GO THE EASY WAY OUT!!! and thats fact brutha!

Good Illustration.

some real Fast and the Furious Vin Diesel shit right there son!! lol

 

[shapeup]

Yup.

Training = Engine
Diet = Oil/Gas/Coolant
Roids = Nos.

Nos won't do much on a shitty engine without oil or gas or coolant.

Get the other shit straight and Nos can work. Except this nos can make the engine freeze up unless it cools down at the right speed with some PCT.

Ok, this analagy only goes so far, but you get it.