First Cycle- Start Low, Moderate, Or All Out???

[Texas Ranger]

Guys, I'd like to get some veteran opinions on this from personal experiences.(Please don't move to beginners section) I've been to ALOT of boards over the years and everyone's recommendation is different. Some guys say start low, something like Test E or Sust@250mgs/wk. Others say Test E or Sust@500mgs/wk with Dbol@20-25mgs/ED. Then, some say your 1st cycle is your best so go all out. Something like Test E or Sust@500-600mgs/wk, Deca or EQ@400mgs/wk, Dbol@30-40mgs/ED in the beginning and Winstrol@50mgs/ED closing out. What's your opinion?

 

[oldfella]

First cycle........test only no orals do not go above 500mg/wk and no longer than 12 weeks. All out is wreckless and dangerous. You have no idea how the body will react to what you are doing/taking.

 

[Thor]

AGREED

First cycle........test only no orals do not go above 500mg/wk and no longer than 12 weeks. All out is wreckless and dangerous. You have no idea how the body will react to what you are doing/taking.

This is VERY good advice, 500 mgs is plenty for first time and you will see results. If it were me and I could go back, I would have had my diet planned out better too.

 

[STEEDA69]

This is VERY good advice, 500 mgs is plenty for first time and you will see results. If it were me and I could go back, I would have had my diet planned out better too.

Excellent advice! Get your diet dialed in FIRST and foremost and then add in some "supplements."

As far as dosage??? Well, think about it rationally! First off, The human body adapts to outside stimulus very well (in this case it's AAS). Having said that, most guys realize that whatever they took last time, doesn't seem to work as well in the future; therefore they must increase the dose to get the same or similar results! This of course tapers off the longer you're on but you get my point! If you start off high, where do you go from there???

Secondly, see what works for YOU! Your body may respond very well to 200-300 mgs per week, SO why waste your money and your health taking more than you need? I don't know WHO advised you to start off with Mega-Doses [/U](I can't fathom why someone would actually recommend this) but it's obvious they don't have a clue concerning AAS! Maybe they don't like you very much and wouldn't mind watching you grow a pair of breasts or end up with acute hypertension or WORSE!!!

That last scenario is what most "advanced" amateur lifters/competitors take! I would save that for 5 or 6 cycles down the road! Heck, you may never need to exceed 600-800 TOTAL mgs per week!

Like I said, see what works for you! I know that sounds cliché but it's the wisest and safest route to take!

STEEDA~

 

[TooPowerful4u]

uhhh what they said....

 

[Fears]

start low, stay low to medium forever with appropriate time off

high doses are for guys who don't want to make the commitment with diet, training, etc. and be in it for the long haul or are pro level and even those guys don't use the doses you see from newbies, it boggles the mind.

I'll not get into specifics on what to use, etc. I will say that a Test only first cycle is good but not the only way to start even though it is accepted dogma.

 

[Potimus]

I think some of you guys are being a little over cautious. Certainly someone who does their research knows what they are getting into, and know what to expect as far as sides are concerned. How many of you guys actually had a severe reaction when running 2 injectables and an oral or two. Besides HPTA supression, ance, hair growth/loss are all to be expected. If he wants to run a Test/deca/Dbol cycle, then its not to hard to pinpoint a problem if it arises. Loss of libido can be corrected with lowering deca dosage. Bloat can be managed with AI's or dosage decreasion. Now Im not saying go all out on dosages, but running several compounds is no more dangerous really then running Test for 10 weeks. HPTA will be supressed, so you might aswell kick it hard while the system is down and use a more aggressive PCT regimine.

1-12 Test E 4-500mg/wk
1-10 Deca 2-300mg/wk
1-4 Dbol 30mg ED
10-14 Winstrol 50mg EOD

You have a solid Test base, another strong anabolic, a strong kick starter, and a strong finisher for a complete cycle that covers all the basics.

 

[lookatpicture]

First cycle........test only no orals do not go above 500mg/wk and no longer than 12 weeks. All out is wreckless and dangerous. You have no idea how the body will react to what you are doing/taking.

Agreed. You will get very mature advice on this board.

 

[Golgo13]

I started low, stayed low, kept everything because I did it right. IMO, unless you are going to compete, this is the only protocol.

 

[abadseal]

First injectable cycle I tried the "tried and true" 500mg a week and by week 8 I had gained something pathetic like 3 lbs. My diet and training were spot freakin on too for those of you that love to jump on that bandwagon. My reasoning for the lack of progress was my younger age and my body was used to somewhat higher then normal levels so it wasn't until I added 600 mg EQ/week that I started to see appreciable gains. I'm by no means condoning high dose cycles for beginners but for some it does take higher amounts to yield the same effect as seen in others. Also I believe I was closing in on my natural limit at around 230 lbs which may have had an effect on dosages.

 

[td1111]

I trained hard and heavy long BEFORE my first cycle, to make sure my tendons, joints, and connective tissues were ready for the increased loads. I did weekly: 400 Primo, 400 EQ, and 30mg var/day. NO side effects, just 25-28lbs of lean mass. I lifted heavy and ate massive protein. I extended the cycle to 14 weeks, but completely plateaued around week 11-12. On my 2nd cycle 8 months later(test, EQ, d-bol), I had a tough time getting back to my peak size of my first. Not sure if it was the compounds I was running, or what. Time will tell. Just thought I'd post my experiences. I hated test and d-bol bloat, gyno, and anti-e's made me feel like ass. Back to primo baby!

 

[Texas Ranger]

I trained hard and heavy long BEFORE my first cycle, to make sure my tendons, joints, and connective tissues were ready for the increased loads. I did weekly: 400 Primo, 400 EQ, and 30mg var/day. NO side effects, just 25-28lbs of lean mass. I lifted heavy and ate massive protein. I extended the cycle to 14 weeks, but completely plateaued around week 11-12. On my 2nd cycle 8 months later(test, EQ, d-bol), I had a tough time getting back to my peak size of my first. Not sure if it was the compounds I was running, or what. Time will tell. Just thought I'd post my experiences. I hated test and d-bol bloat, gyno, and anti-e's made me feel like ass. Back to primo baby!

WOW! Primo, EQ & Var sounds like an awesome cycle. 25-28lbs and probably no water bloat either. How were your strength gains? I originally planned to do an EQ/Tbol cycle for my 1st cycle. Looking something like this- EQ@400mgs for 14-16 weeks and Tbol@40-50mgs/ED weeks 1-8. My goal was 12-15lbs of lean, dry mass. What do ya think?

 

[Potimus]

WOW! Primo, EQ & Var sounds like an awesome cycle. 25-28lbs and probably no water bloat either. How were your strength gains? I originally planned to do an EQ/Tbol cycle for my 1st cycle. Looking something like this- EQ@400mgs for 14-16 weeks and Tbol@40-50mgs/ED weeks 1-8. My goal was 12-15lbs of lean, dry mass. What do ya think?

I put a good friend on an EQ/Tbol cycle. Minimal hpta shutdown, lean mass gains, close to no sides whatsoever. He ran 500mg EQ with 50mg Tbol and loved it for his first cycle.

 

[econstruction]

I am not an expert but on the advice of the board veterans here my 1st is test e only @250 wk and very low doses of hcg eod as per exell's hcg article.
Now on week 5 of only 9 planed I am flat out amazed how I look! I am holding a fair bit of water ( chipmunk cheeks ) but never stronger. Before i started reading here i was ready to go with 5 different products due to poor advice of lesser places. Thankfully PM set me straight and im now a believer in a test only cycle!

 

[buldog9]

My seventh cycle

At 27 and after 6 cycles and 6 years of training on and off. I'm 52 now. My DOCTOR put me on.[It was legal back then]
15 mg d-bol
9 mg winnie
6 mg anavar a day for 12 weeks.
Gained 15 lbs of muscle, no water, no sides but for test shut down.Went from 180 to 195 and low body fat. All abs showed very well which means I really gained more than 15 lbs of muscle. Benched 210 at start and went to 295. What you guys are calling low dose is what we used to call high dose's. Remember this is back in Arnaldo's day. The guys that weighed 230 at 6' or less and were ripped took only a little more.When I first got on the boards I couldn't believe the amounts people were taking.See how your body does with little amounts first. You can always go up.

 

[6.8SPC]

At 27 and after 6 cycles and 6 years of training on and off. I'm 52 now. My DOCTOR put me on.[It was legal back then]
15 mg d-bol
9 mg winnie
6 mg anavar a day for 12 weeks.
Gained 15 lbs of muscle, no water, no sides but for test shut down.Went from 180 to 195 and low body fat. All abs showed very well which means I really gained more than 15 lbs of muscle. Benched 210 at start and went to 295. What you guys are calling low dose is what we used to call high dose's. Remember this is back in Arnaldo's day. The guys that weighed 230 at 6' or less and were ripped took only a little more.When I first got on the boards I couldn't believe the amounts people were taking.See how your body does with little amounts first. You can always go up.

That's amazing. I always wonder why such drugs as dianabol or anavar were made in 5 mg and 2.5 mg tablets respectively when people nowadays suggest using upwards of 30-40 mg per day. I have been reading a lot recently about the history of steroids and was stunned when I read that Dr. John Zeigler prescribed anywhere from 5-15mg of dianabol per day to athletes (depending on bodyweight). I have heard recommendations of 30-40mg per day for a new user and wonder if such a dose is really necessary for new users and/or "cosmetic" or non-competitive athletes.

 

[buldog9]

My son [he's 18]took anavar 30 mg ed for 9 weeks and igf 40 mcg twice a week and gained 10 lbs of good muscle no fat or water no sides.went from 190 to 255 on bench,squats 475 esh, started at 425 lbs. His first cycle. He started lifting when he was 6.Of course he has my 32 years experience to call on. He will only take anavar on short cycles untill he's full grown. I dont want to hear any bs on his age and aas. His mother has used winnie at 5mg ed for 8 weeks with good results,very ripped and 6lbs of muscle. At my age I do take quite a bit of gear but havent done as well as I did when young and on small doses.

 

[Kaiser]

For a first cycle, you should learn what a stable single ester of testosterone like enanthate for 8 weeks is like in your system. Until you know what your axis does and what to expect from a core component you should not move on to a more complex cycle. I think you are a member at Alinboard if I am correct. Same stuff we preach over there. End of story.

 

[Texas Ranger]

I put a good friend on an EQ/Tbol cycle. Minimal hpta shutdown, lean mass gains, close to no sides whatsoever. He ran 500mg EQ with 50mg Tbol and loved it for his first cycle.

How were his gains in size & strength?

 

[Texas Ranger]

I am not an expert but on the advice of the board veterans here my 1st is test e only @250 wk and very low doses of hcg eod as per exell's hcg article.
Now on week 5 of only 9 planed I am flat out amazed how I look! I am holding a fair bit of water ( chipmunk cheeks ) but never stronger. Before i started reading here i was ready to go with 5 different products due to poor advice of lesser places. Thankfully PM set me straight and im now a believer in a test only cycle!

Econ, how much are you up after 5 weeks? How much have you gained on Bench, Squats, etc...?