First Cycle

[Mr_M]

1-.. 20mg ED Roaccutane
1-5 250mg Test E
6-12 500mg Test E
6-12 Proviron 25mg
14-17 Nolvadex 20mg ED


Keeping the test 250mg the first 5 weeks so I can see how the test reacts (gyno etc). If gyno starts i'll start with proviron. Should I combine proviron and nolvadex if gyno starts?

And what do you guys think of this as a first cycle?

 

[Mr_M]

anyone?

 

[PsyT]

you probably wont see very many sides the first few weeks of a test cycle...250mg or 500mg...it takes a while for the estrogen to build up to a level that can cause problems.

If you're worried about estrogen sides then run an AI like aromasin at a modest dose (12.5mg every day) and have some nolvadex on hand in case any nipple issues flare up.

 

[brother_iron]

500mg is the standard begginer dosage to determine things like gyno. It won't kick in fully till around 3.5 weeks. 1.5 weeks isn't long enough to determine anything.


Just have an AI on hand bud.

500 for all 12 weeks

 

[PsyT]

^ wouldn't it be wiser to start the AI before the symptoms appear? Once the symptoms appear then you already have elevated estrogen and an AI won't do anything to get rid of that estrogen (it will just block a lot more being created).

Nolvadex would block the estrogen from binding to the breast tissue since it has a higher affinity for those receptors than estrogen does.

 

[brother_iron]

^ wouldn't it be wiser to start the AI before the symptoms appear? Once the symptoms appear then you already have elevated estrogen and an AI won't do anything to get rid of that estrogen (it will just block a lot more being created).

Nolvadex would block the estrogen from binding to the breast tissue since it has a higher affinity for those receptors than estrogen does.

I would just have nolva and an ai on hand to be honest, like you said to block more estrogen and then the nolva for the E2 receptor. Gyno won't form overnight, if your nips start to get puffy then start taking both and drop the nolva after a week.

First cycle is to asses your tolerance pretty much IMO, so limit third party factors as much as you can.

 

[Mr_M]

You guys are great, thanks for the help!!!

you probably wont see very many sides the first few weeks of a test cycle...250mg or 500mg...it takes a while for the estrogen to build up to a level that can cause problems.

If you're worried about estrogen sides then run an AI like aromasin at a modest dose (12.5mg every day) and have some nolvadex on hand in case any nipple issues flare up.

Plan was to use aromasin, but i think it will influence my gains too much. That's why i chose for proviron. Is it better for me to use 500mg test from the beginning and a low dose of 25mg proviron and up the proviron to 50mg ED if gyno starts?? And maybe some nolvadex if needed?

500mg is the standard begginer dosage to determine things like gyno. It won't kick in fully till around 3.5 weeks. 1.5 weeks isn't long enough to determine anything.


Just have an AI on hand bud.

500 for all 12 weeks

I've got proviron as AI. Which dose do you recommend and when?

^ wouldn't it be wiser to start the AI before the symptoms appear? Once the symptoms appear then you already have elevated estrogen and an AI won't do anything to get rid of that estrogen (it will just block a lot more being created).

Nolvadex would block the estrogen from binding to the breast tissue since it has a higher affinity for those receptors than estrogen does.

Yeah, that's a good option as well. 25mg of proviron from the beginning.

I would just have nolva and an ai on hand to be honest, like you said to block more estrogen and then the nolva for the E2 receptor. Gyno won't form overnight, if your nips start to get puffy then start taking both and drop the nolva after a week.

First cycle is to asses your tolerance pretty much IMO, so limit third party factors as much as you can.

I had puberal gyno and had surgery on it. But still have puffy niples and they kept a bit of the gyno tissue under my niples for cosmetic reasons.

 

[brother_iron]

If you have pubertal gyno definately get so letro or adex before you go for your run man and use it from day 1 on.

To be honest I don't have a lot of experience with proviron so don't want to advise on its usage bud.

 

[Mr_M]

If you have pubertal gyno definately get so letro or adex before you go for your run man and use it from day 1 on.

To be honest I don't have a lot of experience with proviron so don't want to advise on its usage bud.

ok, thanks.
But i should eitherway start with 500mg?



Can anyone else tell me something about the proviron?

 

[brother_iron]

ok, thanks.
But i should eitherway start with 500mg?



Can anyone else tell me something about the proviron?

Yes 500mg. And I wish I could man, I just don't like talking "broscience" and giving someone bad info from what I heard from a friend of a friend hehe.

 

[PsyT]

I used proviron my first cycle and its not nearly as effective as aromasin at blocking estrogen. Go with aromasin if you are worried...proviron sorta blocks estrogen and dries you out....but its like a night/day difference between that and aromasin.

IME

 

[Mr_M]

I used proviron my first cycle and its not nearly as effective as aromasin at blocking estrogen. Go with aromasin if you are worried...proviron sorta blocks estrogen and dries you out....but its like a night/day difference between that and aromasin.

IME

i think aromasin is too strong even on a low dose eod. It will negatively influence gains..
Thats why I choice for proviron.

But i know i will need aromasin for heavier cycles, so that's something for the future.

 

[PsyT]

it will negatively influence waterweight gains...but i think12.5mg ed is going to be fine...it worked for me with 600mg prop...I gained very nicely and stayed dry the entire cycle. i only pissed out 2-3 pounds water at the end as opposed to 5 or 6 from my test cycle without aromasin.

 

[Mr_M]

it will negatively influence waterweight gains...but i think12.5mg ed is going to be fine...it worked for me with 600mg prop...I gained very nicely and stayed dry the entire cycle. i only pissed out 2-3 pounds water at the end as opposed to 5 or 6 from my test cycle without aromasin.

nice to hear. Definately going to use for my next cycle.

And the proviron didn't do the job in your first cycle?

 

[Quad-smack]

Proviron is better at decreasing SHBG than it is at inhibiting aromitase. Proviron helps you "get more mileage" out of your test as it can increase your levels of free testosterone.
Aromasin is less likely to negatively impact your lipids, decreases triglycerides, decreases SHBG and increases IGF-1. Best choice IMO.

 

[Mr_M]

Proviron is better at decreasing SHBG than it is at inhibiting aromitase. Proviron helps you "get more mileage" out of your test as it can increase your levels of free testosterone.
Aromasin is less likely to negatively impact your lipids, decreases triglycerides, decreases SHBG and increases IGF-1. Best choice IMO.

yes, i knew that.

I've allready got proviron that's why i'm waiting for someone with some experience about proviron and gyno. I know Aromasin is great for gyno, but i've heard from another board about proviron being enough as well.

And because i allready got the proviron i'm only interested in that. If it isn't going to do the job I guess i should get some aromasin.

No one tried proviron for gyno?

 

[Quad-smack]

It is quite possible you are not even prone to gyno. But, if you get gyno from 250mg/wk of test, just understand that 25mg/day of proviron will NOT stop it at 500mg/wk.
Only one way to find out.

 

[Mr_M]

It is quite possible you are not even prone to gyno. But, if you get gyno from 250mg/wk of test, just understand that 25mg/day of proviron will NOT stop it at 500mg/wk.
Only one way to find out.

I had puberal gyno and still got a little lump under my niples.. thats why i believe i'm prone to gyno. That's true, i just need to see how i react on it. Just hope i won't get gyno.. I'll just try proviron 25-50mg, hope it works out.

 

[juicy j]

I would keep both nolva and arimidex or aromasin on hand regardless...if you are gyno prone, you do not want to order ancilliaries and then be waiting for them as the gyno gets worse. Also, just because you got gyno from puberty does not mean that you will get it from test and vice versa. Good luck bro!

I had puberal gyno and still got a little lump under my niples.. thats why i believe i'm prone to gyno. That's true, i just need to see how i react on it. Just hope i won't get gyno.. I'll just try proviron 25-50mg, hope it works out.

 

[Mr_M]

I would keep both nolva and arimidex or aromasin on hand regardless...if you are gyno prone, you do not want to order ancilliaries and then be waiting for them as the gyno gets worse. Also, just because you got gyno from puberty does not mean that you will get it from test and vice versa. Good luck bro!

thanks juicy j!

Spoke to some guys who are gyno prone and used proviron. They told me 50mg will be enough to do the job .
The plan is to use 25mg proviron for the first 3 weeks and next 7 weeks 50mg. Will add nolva if i feel there's some gyno coming and if that won't be enough i'll use some aromasin.

Will keep you guys informed when I start!

Thanks for the help, bro's!