FOR ALL THE SCIENCE GUYS

[hollaatyaboyy1]

Let’s hear your plan on how to dial a hRT REGIMENT that is not cookie cutter.

How do you approach it (with clients or your own)?

What are you looking for in the bloods?

When do you increase/ decrease dose?

How often are you checking levels?

What is your favorite hrt protocol currently

 

[buck]

Are we talking about HRT with blood levels being in range for most all the week? Or just on the day of testing?

 

[Stewie]

Science is evolutionary, it's constantly changing. I sometimes forget to give myself a dose of man-serum. I feel no different if I miss a dose. If my blood work shows somethings skewed – I don't hyperfixate believing it solely specific to testosterone.

 

[hollaatyaboyy1]

Are we talking about HRT with blood levels being in range for most all the week? Or just on the day of testing?

True hrt

 

[TEHL]

HRT can mean too many things.

 

[buck]

HRT can mean too many things.

True. For me TRT it means my T levels are in the normal range at least 5 days a week. If the spike a little outside the range for a day i don't get to excited. If i am adding in other anibolics it is a cycle no matter the dose. Same with GH stay in the normal range. I have done more cycles then i can count i just call them that. Keeps things simple and really doesn't fool any one. The bolood work decides if it is a cycle or TRT not the dosage.

 

[hollaatyaboyy1]

HRT can mean too many things.

Healthy testosterone , hgh and replacement doses

 

[Sectør]

Bloodwork should tell everything.

If you’re on true HRT I can’t really see this skewing bloodwork too much, so if your lipid markers are off it’s probably more diet/lifestyle related or perhaps something else that’s underlying

 

[Performance Based]

For myself

800mg-1,100 free test
150mg-200mg per week depending on volume of training
25mg oxandralone on plyometric days

200mg on deload phases and reduced volume as well

Full panel bloods are done quarterly
Primary concern for me in AST/ALT due to volume of training

 

[TEHL]

Healthy testosterone , hgh and replacement doses

Well then you have to reach around these values:
-Total test and hit around 1200 (200-250mg TestE ew)
-Estradiol 25-45pg/ml I like to stay in the upper range because I feel better. You can use an AI.
-around 5iu HGH ed (2iu are basically nothing)
-have FT3 FT4 in range, which is like 50-150mcg T4 ed (maybe you need also tiny dose of T3)
-have SHBG as High as possibile but it's hard to reach the minimum on a good dose of test but still, give it a watch.
-keep also prolactin controlled, some have it a tad high

With all that basically you are covered completely for an HRT to have the male hormones of a teenager.
On top of that you have to live the lifestyle, healthy eating (less process food possible), cardio 5/7 days a week 20-30mins, and ofc train with weights.

 

[Jose1990]

True HRT is probably around 10mg of test a day. Up to 800 ng/dl testosterone levels on bloodwork. At least in most countries.

HGH for HRT from what I know in the US is Omnitrope and a very low dose.

Serostim for HIV at a high dose.

Short bowel and chronic kidney disease is Genotropin or omnitrope also fairly low dose.

 

[Chinaski]

How do you approach it (with clients or your own)? However much is needed to achieve a trough level of 500+ ng/dL and less than 700ng/dL at trough without requiring an AI. For me personally 10-15mg propionate a day, my trough 24 hours after injection is almost always around 500ng/dL-600ng/dL without AI

What are you looking for in the bloods? H&H in normal range, platelets in normal range, RBCs in normal range, no elevation of liver enzymes, and healthy kidney values.

When do you increase/ decrease dose? Don’t, it’s a replacement dose. If I increase the dose, it’s a blast or cycle

How often are you checking levels? every 6 months now

 

[buck]

How do you approach it (with clients or your own)? However much is needed to achieve a trough level of 500+ ng/dL and less than 700ng/dL at trough without requiring an AI. For me personally 10-15mg propionate a day, my trough 24 hours after injection is almost always around 500ng/dL-600ng/dL without AI

What are you looking for in the bloods? H&H in normal range, platelets in normal range, RBCs in normal range, no elevation of liver enzymes, and healthy kidney values.

When do you increase/ decrease dose? Don’t, it’s a replacement dose. If I increase the dose, it’s a blast or cycle

How often are you checking levels? every 6 months now

On 15mg TC a day i am in the low 800's with the top of the range at 900. No AI needed for many years at that dose till recently. The body changes over time. All other blood work has been and is still good at that dose.

 

[primobolan]

"Science" has moved the upper limit from 1100 (maybe it was 1200) down to 800 in our lifetime. TRT Nazi's scream war anything outside their realm of thinking. Gonna suck for some of you guys when they lower it again.

 

[buck]

"Science" has moved the upper limit from 1100 (maybe it was 1200) down to 800 in our lifetime. TRT Nazi's scream war anything outside their realm of thinking. Gonna suck for some of you guys when they lower it again.

I don't see where science has moved the ranges at all as science per se does not set the range. Labs measure all the people then throw out the top and bottom 2.5% and the 95% in the middle is called "normal" And as it is pretty well documented that T levels for men have dropped 20% over the last 20 years on the average. And some studies i have seen show 40% over the last 40 years. I would say the declining levels are the reason for the range dropping and not science picking an arbitrary number.

The same blood sample at Quest or Labcorp can come back with 2 different numbers 200 points apart yet still be in the same place with in the range. Where one is at compared to the range matters not the actual number as that is just in reference to what ever the range may be.

 

[TEHL]

"Science" has moved the upper limit from 1100 (maybe it was 1200) down to 800 in our lifetime. TRT Nazi's scream war anything outside their realm of thinking. Gonna suck for some of you guys when they lower it again.

On gh15.org there was a fantastic post from GHLR3 about HRT levels... Unfortunately it's all gone, but if someone saved it please copy and paste.

 

[Nunyabiznas]

"Science" has moved the upper limit from 1100 (maybe it was 1200) down to 800 in our lifetime. TRT Nazi's scream war anything outside their realm of thinking. Gonna suck for some of you guys when they lower it again.

Exactly. Lol Insurance dictates what men's hormones should be. True HRT should be the lowest possible dose that makes us feel good. And it varies between ALL men. Many doctors are completely against giving men testosterone at all. My father's doctor for example. The 'science' apparently is less important than somebody's ego wearing a white labcoat.

 

[Nunyabiznas]

I would say the declining levels are the reason for the range dropping and not science picking an arbitrary number

Which is the wrong way of determining an average. Averaging sick obese men's testosterone levels and calling them 'normal ranges' is ridiculous. Most of America doesn't work out, eat nothing but junk fast food, drink themselves to oblivion multiple times a week. Yet healthy men are supposed to have the same test levels as these fat fucks?? How laughable.

 

[buck]

Which is the wrong way of determining an average. Averaging sick obese men's testosterone levels and calling them 'normal ranges' is ridiculous. Most of America doesn't work out, eat nothing but junk fast food, drink themselves to oblivion multiple times a week. Yet healthy men are supposed to have the same test levels as these fat fucks?? How laughable.

But that is actually how labs have been determining the "normal" blood values for for decades, whether we like it or not. Normal/average is based off the normal/average person. I prefer doing what is optimal for all areas of my life not what is normal. So i take charge of my life/health and do what is best for me. No area of society has behaved the way i think they should. My job is just to work within the guidelines to my benefit.

I have been on Dr prescribed TRT for over 26 years. while finding a Dr to prescribe T is not the easiest thing it is not that hard to do either. There are many avenues to choose from.
If one Dr is not doing what you want then get another. I just look on them as my employees as that is what they are. If they are not performing the way i want i fire them. And get a new employee.

 

[Nunyabiznas]

But that is actually how labs have been determining the "normal" blood values for for decades, whether we like it or not. Normal/average is based off the normal/average person. I prefer doing what is optimal for all areas of my life not what is normal. So i take charge of my life/health and do what is best for me. No area of society has behaved the way i think they should. My job is just to work within the guidelines to my benefit.

I have been on Dr prescribed TRT for over 26 years. while finding a Dr to prescribe T is not the easiest thing it is not that hard to do either. There are many avenues to choose from.
If one Dr is not doing what you want then get another. I just look on them as my employees as that is what they are. If they are not performing the way i want i fire them. And get a new employee.

Same with me brother. I dont even bother trying to get my doctor to prescribe me test after getting the run around and side eyes from many docs. Once they see a big muscular guy asking for testosterone most label 'drug seeking behavior'. That goes on a permanent record. I also manage my own health and draw bloods completely seperate from insurance and pcp. We all know more about hormones than many doctors from being our own guinea pigs and learning from each other on these forums.

Only thing id argue is that WERE the employees if we're getting extorted and need to search multiple doctors paying their initial fees. just to get an earful of somebody's opinion and told NO. Unfortunately medicine is not standardized when one doctor prescribes this and one doctor will prescribe that.. when we walk into a doctor's 'office' we are walking into his corporation. That should tell everybody what they need to know about the united states medical system. I sure went into the wrong business lol