FOR REAL, THERE'S GOTTA BE A SECRET TO THIS...

[d5332]

x2.....

Saying that they are healthy is misleading...

Anything in excess is bad for you...ANYTHING....

Eating healthy and having a low bf % does not mean you are healthy....liver damage, kidney damage, heart/cardio damage, tumors....anything in excess is bad for you, anything....

You're way off on one thing here....most of them are not healthy, at least while they're in the prime of their careers. Do you know how many (I don't specifically either, it's rhetorical) of them are on cholesterol meds, blood pressure meds, liver meds, kidney treatments, etc...it's scary. The body is not meant to be pushed to those levels, genetically gifted or not. Some of those gents are a few ticks from a heart attack on any given day.

I'd love for Phil and some of the others to chime in on this....JS....anyone else.

 

[maldorf]

A guy I work with had a triple by-pass at 40. He is 5'6 230 and 25-30% bf, smoker with poor eating habits. The fact that he didn't take care of himself and had a heart attack didn't surprise me, but he told me he went to a cardiologist 6 months earlier and his bp and cholesterol were perfect. This guy never juiced and probably never lifted a weight and had no symptoms before hand that something was wrong. He wasn't on any medications at the time.

Yeah, things can go undetected. In my case I had NO plaque build up in my coronary arteries anywhere. I had no stents put in and no bypass. My artery was clogged up with just a big blood clot. Using steroids can make you hypercoagulable. We lost one of our best moderators last year to a blood clot.

 

[Power Juicer]

Yeah, things can go undetected. In my case I had NO plaque build up in my coronary arteries anywhere. I had no stents put in and no bypass. My artery was clogged up with just a big blood clot. Using steroids can make you hypercoagulable. We lost one of our best moderators last year to a blood clot.

So it was a blood clot that caused your heart attack. Do you think that nattokinase and aspirin could have prevented this?

 

[maldorf]

So it was a blood clot that caused your heart attack. Do you think that nattokinase and aspirin could have prevented this?

Well, I was on aspirin. I do not think taking the nattokinase in addition would have prevented it, but thats just my opinion. I needed to get off the AAS. I believe that the effects on being on AAS for a prolonged period of time is what did it. That was the first time that I ever cruised in between cycles and never got off. I was on in some form of another for over 1 year. Cruising on between 250 -350 mg test and then running up to 750 mg test and adding in maybe 250 mg of deca or tren. I am now on coumadin to make sure that it never happens again and of course Im only on doc prescribed HRT of 120 mg/wk and hes wanting to take me down to 100 mg/wk. Im fighting that but I probably wont win.

Steroids affect the clotting cascade, a long chain of chemical reactions that cause blood clotting, and these effects you really cant test for in a blood test. All steroids are like this. If you look at birth control warnings and tv adds for them youll see the warning about clots. I dont think corticosteroids can cause this, but Im not sure.

If you want to know more about what happened in my case I have a long thread on here that documents the event after it happened. http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/37736-just-survived-heart-attack-age-38-follow-up-phils-post.html

 

[slyder]

That's some scary stuff maldorf, glad you're still with us. What was your diet like prior to it? Did you have indicators - cholesterol, bp issues, etc?

Just read your post there you linked....just the really low HDL it looks like. Again, scary stuff.

 

[KPR]

yeah its the ability to take large doses and not get sick

i have a bro who can take 2g of test e a week plus anabolics and handles it very well

first time i tried this i stopped after 5 weeks,as i couldn't take the sides so..

its all in the genetics bro

 

[maldorf]

yeah its the ability to take large doses and not get sick

i have a bro who can take 2g of test e a week plus anabolics and handles it very well

first time i tried this i stopped after 5 weeks,as i couldn't take the sides so..

its all in the genetics bro

He might think his body is handling it well, but he has no idea what is going on inside his body's chemistry. Even blood work can come back normal and things are haywire inside.

 

[maldorf]

That's some scary stuff maldorf, glad you're still with us. What was your diet like prior to it? Did you have indicators - cholesterol, bp issues, etc?

Just read your post there you linked....just the really low HDL it looks like. Again, scary stuff.

I had boarderline high BP for a few years and then went on an ARB -Benicar to control that and I was looking good so my BP had been normal for about 5 or 6 years. I did have low HDL, and once in awhile my liver enzymes would come back high.

About 5 years prior to that I got diagnosed with cardiomyopathy, but went off the juice and my heart recovered to normal in less than a year. Of course I blamed the trouble on perhaps just having high bp or maybe I had a virus- yadda yadda. I went back on the juice and then eventually had the blood clot.

So indicators were: high bp for a time but medicated to normal, low HDL, and some elevated liver enzymes. The cardiomyopathy came after about 5 years of steroid use and then recovered when I got off. I got back on then 5 years later, BAM the blood clot and subsequent heart attack.

As far as doses go, the 2 years prior to the heart attack I had been running no more than 1g total aas/week during cycles and cruising on no more than about 350 mg test. The 8 year prior to that I built up the doses slowly over the years as I stated to respond less and less and needed more and more. The highest doses I ever used were probably a total of say 2g/wk for 10-12 week cycles. I would then go clean for 12 weeks. I experimented some with blasting cycles of just 4 or 5 weeks long and those doses ran about 4g/wk long esters, and then I would go clean for 4 or 5 weeks and then jump on another.

 

[Papa Van Smack]

Keep in mind though that even if you do blood tests and things come back of and you do your phlebotomies to keep your red cells down, things can still go wrong. When I had my heart attack, from a blood clot, I had just given blood 1 week prior and my hgb was sitting at 15. All of my blood test results were within parameters except that my HDL was quite low, but my LDL was rock bottom too.

Dont think that just because you do your blood work, which 90% of the community doesnt anyhow, that you will be safe from harm. All sorts of things can still and will go wrong. So taking high doses of steriods, even if youre monitoring, is still dangerousl. Even taking moderate doses but for an extended time and not going off is dangeous. When I had my heart attack I had been running only 500mg/wk test and 250 mg/wk deca.

I thought you were on tren.....no?

 

[muscleguys]

I think they have a small window of opportunity, and then it catches up with them. Many retire early/young, for probably health reasons.

 

[jstrong20]

Its because steroids are all around pretty safe. Sure you could get complications but show me any drug that that can't happen with. I've known numerous people that have died of rec drug overdose. None of the juicers I know personally have died. Especially in moderation. I consider moderation 2 to 3 cycles a year.