for the guys that dont compete..nor have the desire to

[PHIL HERNON]

HAhahhaahhahhhaa

What a bunch of shit Phil! Just saying. You did a ton of shit and so does ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the pros. Just saying. and if running protein home with pure glucose tabs, pineapple juice and slin means I have bad genetics. That sucks for me. But what sucks for you is a fifty year old newbee in the sport can kick your ass on stage today..........Just saying.

BTW: have you taken my advice and started eating every OTHER time your hungry? Ya Fatty......just saying

You are the ONLY guy in the WORLD.......THE ONLY GUY...who is PROUD TO ATTRIBUTE ALL OF HIS GAINS ON A BOATLOAD OF STEROIDS AND INSULIN....hahahahahaha....congrats to you...........great accomplishment..........here is a toast to you and your "genetics" ...hahahahahahhha

 

[SL1CED]

I'm in the minority that doesn't use anything. I'll be working with the guru's here till I'm confident on my own to do my own thing, then I'll look at gear. All the knowledge and sources are here, but even then, I don't think I'll ever exceed 400mg/test a week. I'll start off at 250mg/week for a cycle, maybe throw in an oral 2nd cycle but stay at 250, etc.

But from the looks of things, I think I may just run 1-2 cycles a year of test prop for 6-8 weeks and use it as my recomp/grow into your show type while being natural otherwise. Never going to compete, but just doing it to look good naked and not be average. Saves money, less risks, and I do what I want to do.

I've got a long way to go. This is all premature talk, we're talking 3-4 years down the line.

 

[concreteguy]

You are the ONLY guy in the WORLD.......THE ONLY GUY...who is PROUD TO ATTRIBUTE ALL OF HIS GAINS ON A BOATLOAD OF STEROIDS AND INSULIN....hahahahahaha....congrats to you...........great accomplishment..........here is a toast to you and your "genetics" ...hahahahahahhha

Phil please start with a copy of my posting about doing boat loads of steriods.

Dude I have done over one thousand situps at a time. This YOU can not do. Drugs with no training and diet do NOTHING. We all know this. Why you insist on drawing thing out of your ass and then proclaiming them to be fact will forever be a PM mystery.

I'm sorry you hate me.
I'm sorry I'm in much better shape than you.
I'm sorry I don't post about how wonderful you are.

MOST of all, I'm sorry this good thread had to get shitted on by more of this personnel crap.

Ya know, BIGA came out and posted the truth about this "slin several times a day". Why am I the bad guy when I ask ya a strait question "JUST SAYING" ?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

OH MAN

Phil please start with a copy of my posting about doing boat loads of steriods.

Dude I have done over one thousand situps at a time. This YOU can not do. Drugs with no training and diet do NOTHING. We all know this. Why you insist on drawing thing out of your ass and then proclaiming them to be fact will forever be a PM mystery.

I'm sorry you hate me.
I'm sorry I'm in much better shape than you.
I'm sorry I don't post about how wonderful you are.

MOST of all, I'm sorry this good thread had to get shitted on by more of this personnel crap.

Ya know, BIGA came out and posted the truth about this "slin several times a day". Why am I the bad guy when I ask ya a strait question "JUST SAYING" ?

Im sorry John, I never knew........I apologize..............I just never knew you did 1000 sit ups at one time..........my apologies.

 

[animal eater]

Just saying

Thought it might be nice if Concrete and Phil could keep this from being another absurd pissing contest. Just saying to stay on the fkn topic. OK, don't make me come over there and sit you both in opposite corners for a time out. It's bad enough with my six year old let alone a 40 something and 50 something year old.

 

[concreteguy]

Good Will Hunting

Im sorry John, I never knew........I apologize..............I just never knew you did 1000 sit ups at one time..........my apologies.

Remember the time I held you by your shoulders and just kept repeating

"It's OK Phil", "It's OK Phil" over and over as you cried?

Well........It's OK Phil. just saying...........

 

[asteelz]

Remember the time I held you by your shoulders and just kept repeating

"It's OK Phil", "It's OK Phil" over and over as you cried?

Well........It's OK Phil. just saying...........

how bout.. stop derailing the thread with your comments.

back on topic.. ive noticed better gains when focusing on diet and taking 300 test 700 primo then on higher doses with other compounds..

 

[myosin]

Yes...

in regards to safety many dont take into consideration the ratios of the compounds they are running.. many such as tren are extremely high in androgens.. even at low dosage.. some also say a compound is crap because it does not give immediate gains (such as eq) because they dont have a understanding of the ester length and how long it takes for eq to kick in.. also one must understand that eq binds poorly to thew androgen receptor so doing 300 mgs of eq is a waste of time in most cases ..

if one is doing 4oo mgs of primo they will have poor results.. if one does 700 to 1000mgs of primo they have good results.. but for some reason they always run much lower dosages of the anabolics as compared to the androgenics (test).. run a equal amount and tell us the results.. maybe not as good.. but much better.. gym lore wins out many times..

chris clark of "pump and pose" fame once told of a euro bodybuilder who was just huge.. he said the only thing this guy took in the off season was 1000mgs of primo.. primo is not so weak at 1000mgs lol.. yet we see guys try it at 400 and say it is weak.. who comes up with these dosages? yet these are the same gym rules that say "anything under 500mgs of test is a waste for growth".. yet 400 for primo (a much weaker steroid) is about right

THAT! (taking into consideration one is watching their lab values as well)

 

[Johnny Smiles]

bare with me CONCRETE

What a bunch of shit Phil! Just saying. You did a ton of shit and so does ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the pros. Just saying. and if running protein home with pure glucose tabs, pineapple juice and slin means I have bad genetics. That sucks for me. But what sucks for you is a fifty year old newbee in the sport can kick your ass on stage today..........Just saying.

BTW: have you taken my advice and started eating every OTHER time your hungry? Ya Fatty......just saying

what i heard in PHILS post was that if a person has to take a shit ton of drugs just to look good then maybe they have dismal genetics. BUT if a person has awesome genetics AND takes a shit ton of drugs they should look like a FREAK.

i am going to be honest (as always) and admit that i have seen your pics and followed your progress and tenure here for a while and i think you look great. but PHIL has genetics that are FREAKY. him and you on the same stuff would not look the same. he is a genetic freak. he doesn't take shit and is built like a fucking bowling ball at an older age.

YES, you look better than him right now. but like we already argued about in a thread months ago is that if he got back into eating strict and training strict and supplementing strict he would smoke this whole board in my opinion and i think you finally agreed in that old thread. although i would give him a run for his money lol (just messing with ya PHIL)

we don't need a pissing match. Phil is not trying AT ALL and looks like a bull. While others try there best and look "good."

CONCRETE you know i hope you know i got mad respect for you and i consider you my friend but man, genetics like PHIL has is rare and crazy. i know you guys get under each others skin but man at the end of the day i gotta admit he is genetically predisposed to beat most people up on stage hence he is a pro and most guys on this board are not.

back on topic, i think test is all thats needed to have a great physique. i don't know science or studies but my body always felt like EQ raised my rbc too much and blood pressure went up with it.
all my doctors feared i was on "steroids" when i told them i was a bodybuilder. but when i told them i only used test except for weeks leading up to shows they were always releaved and weren't concerned too much. they called testosterone a "hormone" and called things like EQ and TREN, "steroids" lol.

man, i am second guessing myself and not sure i want to post this cuz i don't want to piss CONCRETE off but man, can't you agree a guy that is 5' 7" like PHIL (i think that was his height) wieghing 235-245lbs with round thick muscle bellies is just gonna look explosive compared to a taller guy of equal or less weight?

CONCRETE, you are my man i love our PM's and learning from one another but man PHIL really was a freak. he aint even trying now and still looks great. its worth a bit of respect IMO. and you look AWESOME for your age and genetics and is worth just as much RESPECT.
thats how i see it.
sorry for long ass post everyone. i just really respect and like both CONCRETE and PHIL so wanted to take the time to try and stop the pissing match and show some appreciation for both of them.
-JS

 

[LATS]

although i enjoy the banter.. yes i have a sadistic side.. it will get uglier.. so lets stay on the topic..PLEASE.. i agree that test is best.. no doubt .. but the reason i bring up eq is simple.. phil states that 250 mgs of test is what he is referring to.. now most of us know (based on human nature lol) that most are going to double that and do 500 mgs of test.. just looking at past threads we kinda have a idea if that is all they are doing (test.. that seems to be the dosage).. so if we do 500 mgs of test.. 2 amps of omnas ect.. we will have to add a minimal amount of anti e.. say 12.5 of aromasin ed.. and maybe 1 mg of proscar..

now at that point would it be better to do say (again strictly conjecture) 250 mgs of test a week and 500 mgs of eq.. again based on as stated before the low conversion rate of estro by eq and the almost none existant issue of prostate flare ups with eq.. it would seem.. on paper.. to be a safer more effective route..

so based on the fact that most will go higher than 250mgs.. if not great.. but human nature being as it is.. would we be better doing 400-500 mgs of test or 6-800 of eq..?

but yes.. based on 250 mgs a week one would not need much if any anti e protection or prostate.. but would we be better doing what phil said as in 250 mgs a week and cycle in anabolic based compounds such as eq or even oral turinabol that dont convert to estro or have dht issues every so often.. eventually common sense does tell ua that we will need to increase the dosage if we want to get bigger.. but increase the test or add in anabolic compounds..???? that is the 60,000 dollar question..

 

[myosin]

Free test...

OK, maybe I am oversimplifying things... when it comes to "health" I don't mind saying I have my fair share of knowledge, but when it comes to "compounds" I'm a bit of "newb" so I usually try to just glean from these kind of posts... with that said-

I understand certain compounds might offer certain benefits over others, BUT, "At the end of the day", isn't free test what really matters? Increase exogenous test to hopefully increase free test. So, as Ness pointed out, why not seek that out in your supplementation? i.e. proviron and/or winny? with a lower dose of test? Not giving "the answer", more trying to learn.

 

[maldorf]

The main problem with EQ is the insane increase in your hemocrit levels...which, according to what I've read, is a major contributor to heart disease. This is why it makes you so vascular - you literally are 'pumped' with more blood. Thus, I would say boldenone probably isn't the wisest choice for use over the long-term by a non-competitor. ...but maybe it's just the fact that if I use over 300mgs of EQ, my heart literally HURTS when my heart rate is even moderately increased. EQ is made for RACE HORSES...but then again, Shieks in the mid-east pay $5+ for a race horse...so maybe it is human quality. But didn't Secretariat (the race horse) die from an exploded heart? Idk, something to think about.

As far as test only is concerned, I think it's great. However, I've read (as it has been mentioned above via Dave Palumbo conversation) that collagen synthesis is actually DECREASED with test. I've never seen this in a legit study, but if someone has access to one, I'd love to see it.

I agree that any look can be achieved via diet, so I'm certainly not opposed to test-only cycles. (In fact, that's all I can afford at the moment!) The collagen issue worries me a bit - Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman, Victor Martinez, etc have all had major tendon tears...which may speak to the validity of a decreased state of collagen synthesis.

I used to love EQ.

 

[myosin]

Well said..

what i heard in PHILS post was that if a person has to take a shit ton of drugs just to look good then maybe they have dismal genetics. BUT if a person has awesome genetics AND takes a shit ton of drugs they should look like a FREAK.

i am going to be honest (as always) and admit that i have seen your pics and followed your progress and tenure here for a while and i think you look great. but PHIL has genetics that are FREAKY. him and you on the same stuff would not look the same. he is a genetic freak. he doesn't take shit and is built like a fucking bowling ball at an older age.

YES, you look better than him right now. but like we already argued about in a thread months ago is that if he got back into eating strict and training strict and supplementing strict he would smoke this whole board in my opinion and i think you finally agreed in that old thread. although i would give him a run for his money lol (just messing with ya PHIL)

we don't need a pissing match. Phil is not trying AT ALL and looks like a bull. While others try there best and look "good."

CONCRETE you know i hope you know i got mad respect for you and i consider you my friend but man, genetics like PHIL has is rare and crazy. i know you guys get under each others skin but man at the end of the day i gotta admit he is genetically predisposed to beat most people up on stage hence he is a pro and most guys on this board are not.

back on topic, i think test is all thats needed to have a great physique. i don't know science or studies but my body always felt like EQ raised my rbc too much and blood pressure went up with it.
all my doctors feared i was on "steroids" when i told them i was a bodybuilder. but when i told them i only used test except for weeks leading up to shows they were always releaved and weren't concerned too much. they called testosterone a "hormone" and called things like EQ and TREN, "steroids" lol.

man, i am second guessing myself and not sure i want to post this cuz i don't want to piss CONCRETE off but man, can't you agree a guy that is 5' 7" like PHIL (i think that was his height) wieghing 235-245lbs with round thick muscle bellies is just gonna look explosive compared to a taller guy of equal or less weight?

CONCRETE, you are my man i love our PM's and learning from one another but man PHIL really was a freak. he aint even trying now and still looks great. its worth a bit of respect IMO. and you look AWESOME for your age and genetics and is worth just as much RESPECT.
thats how i see it.
sorry for long ass post everyone. i just really respect and like both CONCRETE and PHIL so wanted to take the time to try and stop the pissing match and show some appreciation for both of them.
-JS

Spot on clarification while being very respectful... nice JS.... OK, move along people, move along, nothing to see here anymore

 

[LATS]

myosin.. that could very well be the answer.. but how much could proviron and winny actually raise free test?.. does it make a significant difference?

 

[myosin]

NO idea....

myosin.. that could very well be the answer.. but how much could proviron and winny actually raise free test?.. does it make a significant difference?

Good point/question... has anyone seen studies looking at how much proviron and/or winny raises free test?

I wonder if they increase FT depending on the dose of exogenous test... meaning, say you are taking 50mg proviron/day and 250mg/TC/week.... then you increase your TC to 500/week but keep proviron the same... does the amount of free test that is available go up accordingly as your dose of TC goes up?

 

[Ness]

myosin.. that could very well be the answer.. but how much could proviron and winny actually raise free test?.. does it make a significant difference?

Well in my personal experience:

High dose test = A
1/2 dose Test + Proviron = A

So, imo, it makes a significant difference. Thanks again, Phil LOL

 

[LATS]

ok.. that is what i was getting at.. instead of having to keep adding anabolics or upping the test.. what can we do to make the test more effective and not have to go with anabolic based compounds ect.. the guy i talked about early in the thread (the masters competitor in europe) used only test.. when i asked him how he planned on gaining with having to continually add test ect he commented " get the most out of the test you are using.." this gentleman has access to everything.. but he uses test only.. i wont go into great detail but he uses aromasin, proscar, and proviron with his cycles..

 

[tkav1980]

This thread got really off topic, I know palumbus personally, he was my training partner, and is my friend. the message he origionally was trying to convey was so simple. for people who arent trying to be competitive bodybuilders, AND choose to use AAS, a simple doseage of test, depending on genetics+results desired, will yield all the results YOU ARE CAPABLE OF. this assumes training and diet are maximized for results. so basically the message is why use multiple compounds, when your not going to do anything with it. Its the KISS rule( Keep It Simple Stupid!). were playing russian rullette with our health by using AAS. why load the gun with multiple rounds when it only takes one to kill you. IF YOUR SMART, TAKE ALL PRECAUTIONS, AND DONT GO OVERBOARD WITH DOSEAGES, AAS CAN BE USED EFFECTIVELY AND SAFELY. can you use slin, tren, HGH etc....and still suffer no side effects? SURE! but are you willing to roll the dice on that, and risk, health, family, and freedom to find out?

its risk vs. benefit gentlemen, and thats a decision you make on an individual basis.

 

[mace123]

Why not add marginal amounts of HCG throughout then?

 

[LATS]

tkav it did not really get off topic that much.... what we were saying is there a healthier way besides test..? that is beneficial discussion.. or how to get the most out of the dose you are using safely.. thats why we are here.. discussion.. sure phil and concrete went at it.. but that just spices it up a bit.. would be boring other wise