For the guys who’ve come off completely (even TRT)

[NEMSZ]

So I’m going over some options of what might be best for me at the moment so basically I’m 28 and been on self prescribed TRT for like 6-7 years or so, before that was on/off with cycles from 18-21/22.. Haven’t used any harsh AAS in about 4-5 years with the occasional blast in the last few years being inconsistent and only being higher dosed Test of 600-750mg, and I did one consistent blast end of 2017 beginning of 2018 of just that, Test and GH in those doses and 4-6iu ED... I got in an accident in Feb of last year so that came to an end and went back to TRT, long story short I haven’t been able to train correctly since then because of that and some life obligations with the exception of some cardio and some body exercises...

So with that little back story here’s a little more recent info;

End of 2018 (late December) I ended up going to a psychiatrist because I was having crazy panic attacks and stress because of business and personal life issues and it just got to me, the last 2 years and change have been REALLY rough on me.. He wanted to put me on SSRI but I refused, gave me Xanax as needed for panic but January I took it daily never exceeding 2mg and slowly tapered my dose down to where now the last few weeks/month I’ve only taken about 0.5mg at night and I’m able to handle oncoming anxiety/panic by breathing and positive thoughts.. January to mid February I was off TRT but resumed again until 2 weeks ago, I stopped just out of laziness but those 6-7 weeks I was off I did feel more tired and less motivated.. I’ve gotten bloodwork in this time and everything is perfect except Vitamin D was deficient (while on TRT, Test was in healthy range and didn’t get Estro tested but was only using 100-120mg weekly).. Even went to cardiologist and was cleared as perfectly healthy (anxiety was getting the best of me and really makes one’s mind think there’s a health issue)..

So with all that being said, I’m not sure what to do; I kind of want to give my body a break and just be off everything especially since I can’t even train correctly at the moment (will be able to again in a few months) but not sure if to try and kick start my natural system with some HCG and maybe some other things the more knowledgeable guys can point me to or just let my body naturally try to come back? I’m also worried about the anxiety etc if having low test would agitate that? My doc told me high test can actually cause it but have read some on here experience it with low test and skewed estro levels...

Sorry for the long story but wanted to give as much info as possible, again, mentally I’m much better than the end of the year/beginning but I’m still not 100% myself.. This might just be my anxiety just overthinking it all too lol

Thanks in advance guys..

 

[Biggerp73]

Sorry to hear about your issues with panic attacks. I used to get them on occasion, to the point where I would black out. I havent had one of those kinds of a panic attack for a while now, not since I met the Lord Jesus, but lately I have been suffering from some social anxiety/insecurity, so I feel your pain.


As far as coming off completely, yes, HCG would be highly recommended. Try 500iu every other day for 6 weeks and then follow up with 6 weeks of an ai/ae agent like Nolvadex, Arimidex, etc.

 

[Crazy_jay]

I've tried coming off twice, failed both times. They were a year apart and was a couple years after blasting and cruising. I tried dr scallys hpta restart protocol. Got bloodwork about week 5 of restart, test was mid 60's, estradiol was <5. While i didnt expect to be fully recovered, I did expect some progress, so I stopped and went back on trt.

I did a lot of reading user experiences back then about restarting hpta, very few kept up with their logs but I remember one in particular that did and even after a year, he still wasn't fully recovered. It definitely takes patience and probably more than one course of hcg, nolvadex, clomid. Personally, I dont think I'd take an ai, I know aromasin is supposed to help boost free test but your estradiol will bottom out anyways and it doesnt matter what your test or free test levels are, if estradiol is bottomed out, you will feel like crap.

The reason I tried coming off was because I've never felt good on test. I've had moments. The first three weeks of trt dose I felt good. Then I progressively started crashing out earlier and earlier during the day. I've been coming home napping everyday afterwork for the past couple years. Bloodwork always looks good. Estradiol always at 24 but I didnt know much about the sensitive estradiol test and the standard methods rate of error. Finally, after been off an ai completely for 4 weeks now, I am turning a corner and starting to feel better. I always suspected low e because of fatigue, weakness, lack of gains, dry skin, lips and hair, sore joints from time to time and hair loss. My hair is actually growing back in now! But I am still showing some signs of low e still.

You say you want to give your body a break but running a trt dose of test to maintain your health is giving your body a break. Crashing your t trying to restart isn't much of a break for your body. You never tested your estradiol, maybe it was high, that would more than likely contribute to your anxiety.

Hope all works out for you.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[NEMSZ]

Thanks for the replies guys

@ CrazyJay;

Yea I saw you replied in my other thread and will definitely look into that sensitive Estro Test, and I agree but have limited knowledge on this, I was worried the same that it might be harder on my body coming off than just being on real TRT which I have been for the majority of the last few years, SOMETIMES I’d get lazy and just pin 1cc=300mg Test and then not inject again for 3 weeks or so and sometimes I’d do the 1cc weekly at most but majority of the time was real 100-150mg doses.. I only did one cycle/blast a year and a half ago or so before my accident, that’s pretty much it..

I never got my Estro tested as I’ve stated but never thought it could be too out of range if anything as I never felt any side effects at all but then again bloodwork is the only way to know for sure...

As for my anxiety, I guess that can be a factor (the Estro) but if I told you what my last 2 years were like I’m sure you’d be like “Holy shit.” Even my psychiatrist said those exact words and told me if I wasn’t stressing then he’d consider it an issue as he sees it as someone reacting to whatever is wrong around them and that the anxiety/panic isn’t an issue itself (so long as the person is psychologically normal) and that it’s probably my body/mind that had enough and is signaling I need a break etc... I’ve been able to handle it far better than the start of the year, I was perfectly normal in November then all of a sudden late December, BOOM crazy panic attacks and I thought I had a serious problem (called the ambulance at first as I’d never felt that way before)...

As a result of the anxiety though I’ve been on top of everything health wise the last few months and then just reading about the Adenoma thread put my brain into overdrive and I’m just like “Alright, that’s it I’m coming off everything for a while.” I know a part of it is me overthinking/anxiety but also wanted 2nd opinions on what coming off can actually do VS staying on real TRT and living a healthy lifestyle...

 

[LATS]

Estro is tricky.. but honestly it's the only thing I test consistently.. with every dose I do I wait 3 to 4cweeks then get a estro test. . Estro causes most of the " mental" mind tricks. I know if I do 200mgs of test I have to use 6.25 of aromasin twice a week to be around 25 e2.. at 300.gs test I use 6.25 mgs of aromasin to be at around 40 e2..

If my estro gets high I get very " weepy".. hell I'll get teary eyed at commercials. I also get anxiety and worry about all types of shit. It's amazing not having control of your e2 can do to some guys emotions

 

[CarnitaShreds]

I have a somewhat unpopular opinion on the matter but I feel like i should speak up because it is somewhat of a dissenting opinion that merits thought.

I think it would be supremely beneficial for you to take time off of everything for a multitude of reasons. And I don't think you should HCG and PCT you should just taper off test and allow your endocrine system to naturally regulate itself in this time that you are taking a break from training. I don't think there is a single medical professional that would tell you the practice of blasting and cruising does not meet the medical definition of drug abuse. If you were to replace testosterone with any other recreational or medical compound we're talking a while different thing right? Well- why?

Beyond the risk of potential psychological addiction and negative self concept issues that may or may not exist, I have another really great example of why you should lay off the gas should you feel the complete opposite of me.

The drugs will work better if you give your receptors a break.

Use this time away from training to master your diet and self control. Practice your posing. Develop mobility through any stretching and soft tissue work you are able to do in your current condition. And come back a more mobile and healthy athlete, with a fresh rejuvenated CNS and a highly primed metabolism.


An athlete ready to respond super well to drugs specified nutrition stimulus and rest.

 

[FrancisK]

I'm sorry to hear of the accident and the anxiety issues, I feel like everyone faces something like that at some point I know I have, you will recover give yourself time don't beat yourself up about it.

What is your primary issue with coming off, is it the mental aspect of not being on gear anymore? Which in turn leads to the anxiety? I think if you can pin down the root cause you can start making a plan to combat it.



For what it's worth I take two months off every year, usually November and December just to give my body a rest. By everything I mean everything, even supplements. The first month my body actually looks better, the water coming off I suppose, the second month I start to get a little fluffy but that probably has a more to do with the holidays and my business being slammed around that time so my workouts and diet are shitty.

Mentally it feels good to not have to jab myself with needles and take 10 different horse pills a day. Physically I feel fine as well, libido isn't even so much an issue but then again it's only two months off so like I said take it for what it's worth.


I think the majority of any issues you would experience coming off for a few months would be mental but those are usually the most difficult ones to deal with. My advice would be to definitely come off, use the HCG to give yourself a boost even if it's just mental and pick up some OTC shit that supposedly boosts your test/libido like tongkat ali or horny good weed, maybe even some other things to help you look good physically like synthetine or similar products. It may help you mentally if you're taking something which is supposed to carry you over even if it isn't actually doing anything, placebo effect, and who knows maybe they actually will help.


I'm going by the assumption that the issue is the mental side of coming off gear, you feel like you're not going to be yourself anymore. If I'm wrong let me know....

 

[FrancisK]

I have a somewhat unpopular opinion on the matter but I feel like i should speak up because it is somewhat of a dissenting opinion that merits thought.

I think it would be supremely beneficial for you to take time off of everything for a multitude of reasons. And I don't think you should HCG and PCT you should just taper off test and allow your endocrine system to naturally regulate itself in this time that you are taking a break from training. I don't think there is a single medical professional that would tell you the practice of blasting and cruising does not meet the medical definition of drug abuse. If you were to replace testosterone with any other recreational or medical compound we're talking a while different thing right? Well- why?

Beyond the risk of potential psychological addiction and negative self concept issues that may or may not exist, I have another really great example of why you should lay off the gas should you feel the complete opposite of me.

The drugs will work better if you give your receptors a break.

Use this time away from training to master your diet and self control. Practice your posing. Develop mobility through any stretching and soft tissue work you are able to do in your current condition. And come back a more mobile and healthy athlete, with a fresh rejuvenated CNS and a highly primed metabolism.


An athlete ready to respond super well to drugs specified nutrition stimulus and rest.

This is a great way to look at it, you're coming off so that you can better yourself later through gear. That idea works if you 100% plan on getting back on later....

 

[LATS]

I have a somewhat unpopular opinion on the matter but I feel like i should speak up because it is somewhat of a dissenting opinion that merits thought.

I think it would be supremely beneficial for you to take time off of everything for a multitude of reasons. And I don't think you should HCG and PCT you should just taper off test and allow your endocrine system to naturally regulate itself in this time that you are taking a break from training. I don't think there is a single medical professional that would tell you the practice of blasting and cruising does not meet the medical definition of drug abuse. If you were to replace testosterone with any other recreational or medical compound we're talking a while different thing right? Well- why?

Beyond the risk of potential psychological addiction and negative self concept issues that may or may not exist, I have another really great example of why you should lay off the gas should you feel the complete opposite of me.

The drugs will work better if you give your receptors a break.

Use this time away from training to master your diet and self control. Practice your posing. Develop mobility through any stretching and soft tissue work you are able to do in your current condition. And come back a more mobile and healthy athlete, with a fresh rejuvenated CNS and a highly primed metabolism.


An athlete ready to respond super well to drugs specified nutrition stimulus and rest.

No.. honestly that is a good idea.. but many just wont do it.. now coming off everything at my age would be detrimental.. I'm not going to produce near healthy amounts of test anymore... but at a young age I agree.. but we must also understand that after 3 to 4 months of being off he would definitely need to get test levels looked at... I know guys in their 30s who now cant get past 200ng on the blood test.. not healthy at all.. but start over..

It reminds once what chad Nichols said about king kamali... he said the best thing to do for king at thaT time was to come off everything and stop training too.. just completely detox and have a fresh start. Start from a average build and start over... whether king did that or not i dont know..

 

[NEMSZ]

Estro is tricky.. but honestly it's the only thing I test consistently.. with every dose I do I wait 3 to 4cweeks then get a estro test. . Estro causes most of the " mental" mind tricks. I know if I do 200mgs of test I have to use 6.25 of aromasin twice a week to be around 25 e2.. at 300.gs test I use 6.25 mgs of aromasin to be at around 40 e2..

If my estro gets high I get very " weepy".. hell I'll get teary eyed at commercials. I also get anxiety and worry about all types of shit. It's amazing not having control of your e2 can do to some guys emotions

Thanks for the reply Lats,

Well I’ve been off for just over 2 weeks now so I might get a baseline of everything in a few weeks then see what it’s like on TRT to compare...

I have a somewhat unpopular opinion on the matter but I feel like i should speak up because it is somewhat of a dissenting opinion that merits thought.

I think it would be supremely beneficial for you to take time off of everything for a multitude of reasons. And I don't think you should HCG and PCT you should just taper off test and allow your endocrine system to naturally regulate itself in this time that you are taking a break from training. I don't think there is a single medical professional that would tell you the practice of blasting and cruising does not meet the medical definition of drug abuse. If you were to replace testosterone with any other recreational or medical compound we're talking a while different thing right? Well- why?

Beyond the risk of potential psychological addiction and negative self concept issues that may or may not exist, I have another really great example of why you should lay off the gas should you feel the complete opposite of me.

The drugs will work better if you give your receptors a break.

Use this time away from training to master your diet and self control. Practice your posing. Develop mobility through any stretching and soft tissue work you are able to do in your current condition. And come back a more mobile and healthy athlete, with a fresh rejuvenated CNS and a highly primed metabolism.


An athlete ready to respond super well to drugs specified nutrition stimulus and rest.

I completely agree with your statement and I’m not doing it out of an addiction I feel as much as I was doing it to feel “normal” but idk I’ve never tried coming off and that’s one of the things I’ve been in conflict with, the HCG/PCT thing, I’m not leaning towards one way or the other, actually, now that I think of it I’d rather not take anything (if choosing to come off) than have to do a bunch of PCT drugs protocols unless a good health reason to do so... I have no problem coming off as I’m not putting my all into training etc at the moment..

I do eat fairly clean and do Intermittent Fasting, I don’t compete and never will so I’m not worried about a super strict “look” as a goal, but yes I plan on implementing more stretching and function/mobility.. I did give that a thought that if I was off everything for the next few months that once I was able to train again full throttle that even a TRT would give a noticeable change and I believe I can maintain/gain back the physique I want with TRT... I don’t plan on doing anything crazy or doing crazy blasts ever again, it’s been a few years since I have anyway with the exception of a 600-750mg Test and GH run I finished 14 months ago...

As I’ve stated just wanting to be as healthy as possible at the moment and weighing out my options, and again, that’s fucking Adenoma thread fucked with my head lol

 

[NEMSZ]

I'm sorry to hear of the accident and the anxiety issues, I feel like everyone faces something like that at some point I know I have, you will recover give yourself time don't beat yourself up about it.

What is your primary issue with coming off, is it the mental aspect of not being on gear anymore? Which in turn leads to the anxiety? I think if you can pin down the root cause you can start making a plan to combat it.



For what it's worth I take two months off every year, usually November and December just to give my body a rest. By everything I mean everything, even supplements. The first month my body actually looks better, the water coming off I suppose, the second month I start to get a little fluffy but that probably has a more to do with the holidays and my business being slammed around that time so my workouts and diet are shitty.

Mentally it feels good to not have to jab myself with needles and take 10 different horse pills a day. Physically I feel fine as well, libido isn't even so much an issue but then again it's only two months off so like I said take it for what it's worth.


I think the majority of any issues you would experience coming off for a few months would be mental but those are usually the most difficult ones to deal with. My advice would be to definitely come off, use the HCG to give yourself a boost even if it's just mental and pick up some OTC shit that supposedly boosts your test/libido like tongkat ali or horny good weed, maybe even some other things to help you look good physically like synthetine or similar products. It may help you mentally if you're taking something which is supposed to carry you over even if it isn't actually doing anything, placebo effect, and who knows maybe they actually will help.


I'm going by the assumption that the issue is the mental side of coming off gear, you feel like you're not going to be yourself anymore. If I'm wrong let me know....

Thanks bro, appreciate the reply..

No, no mental issue with coming off gear.. As I stated above to CarnitaShreds, I’ve been on TRT since the accident and barely training but just to feel “Normal” as in sex drive and “health” etc I guess but I have no mental attachment to having to be on or maintain a certain look... My health is 100% more important than anything....

As far as the anxiety/mental aspects I’ve suffered they were life/business related, as I said earlier I’ve had a really rough past 2 years emotionally and business wise and with personal friendships and life in general, the accident didn’t help either, but this year has been nothing but progress since January, albeit slower than I want (I’m part of the instant gratification generation lol) I feel better mentally..

And yes when I’m able to train again 100% I plan on getting back on TRT if I do decide to stay off for a few months... I don’t need anything more/higher than that to get the body I want and accomplish the physical goals I want..

 

[pickapeck]

I came completely off twice, once for almost 2 years and once for almost 10 years. Mind you I always cycled so my HPTA was given a break for 3-4 months after every cycle. Still, both times I came off it took over a year to completely recover. I don't know how long or even if someone that has blasted adn cruised for 6-7 years can recover. My case was different sicne I always took an off cycle. Now I don't think I can come off sicen I am in late 50s and have been on cycle or TRT for 5 years with only short 5-8 week breaks here and there.

 

[NEMSZ]

I came completely off twice, once for almost 2 years and once for almost 10 years. Mind you I always cycled so my HPTA was given a break for 3-4 months after every cycle. Still, both times I came off it took over a year to completely recover. I don't know how long or even if someone that has blasted adn cruised for 6-7 years can recover. My case was different sicne I always took an off cycle. Now I don't think I can come off sicen I am in late 50s and have been on cycle or TRT for 5 years with only short 5-8 week breaks here and there.

I’d say I’ve cruised more than I’ve blasted, especially the last few years and I’ve been the same, sometimes out of laziness I wouldn’t inject for 1-2 months sporadically but have always been on at least TRT dose for the most part.. But yes that seems to be the thing; either guys recover but it takes a while whether they PCT or not (I’ve read of guys recovering after 10+ years) and some just never get their test levels back up...

I’m just wondering what to expect with health if I do decide to stay off for a while besides lower libido and less overall energy/motivation which I haven’t really felt so far a little more than 2 weeks off and for about 2 weeks before coming off I was only taking like 60mg per week so I did taper down.. I really don’t know what to do, many people make sense to stay on TRT and a few really good points to come off too

 

[Reload]

Your only 28?!
I'm almost twice your age so take this with a grain of salt. It seems to me despite you being on/off for 10 years that your HPTA "should" bounce back just due to your age alone. Can you recover 100%? Maybe, maybe not. You won't know unless you do it. 8 years is along time to be shut down. I'd get a good TRT doc following you every step of the way. E2, thyroid, total & free test. It's a very delicate balance. As far as the anxiety goes, stress is a killer! Career change? Focus your time into a new hobby/activity? Put a freeze on the gym membership for a year?

Personally I'm on for life. I've accepted that fact and intend to avoid the rollercoaster that comes with larger than TRT doses. You might want to consider "trying" a low dose protocol like Emeric and many here swear by, myself included.
The daily pinning just becomes as routine as brushing your teeth! Your levels go uber stable and your body just knows how to deal with it.
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

 

[Chinese guy]

balance your hormones, 150mg of cyp per week and go for 4-5 pins PER week, all SUBQ

this should solve your issue with E2 and put you in high range testosterone wise. do not take an AI, suppressing your E2 has a lot of negative sides i never taken an AI

stay away from sugars in general, get good sleep, plenty of sun

 

[Rogue]

balance your hormones, 150mg of cyp per week and go for 4-5 pins PER week, all SUBQ

this should solve your issue with E2 and put you in high range testosterone wise. do not take an AI, suppressing your E2 has a lot of negative sides i never taken an AI

stay away from sugars in general, get good sleep, plenty of sun

Shortest way to say it

 

[heavyb]

I have had anxiety myself sounds similar to what you have described.

Mine got extremely worse with any stress. Death of parent getting laid off from a job. I thought as you did it was my Test dosage or other gear I was taking. I got off everything made it worse btw. I had blood work done my doc put me on Xanax. I have only taking them a few times maybe when I fly but that is it.
Even with BW when I had bloods and suppose to be in range I sometimes feel like crap. A mental state will make you feel certain ways. I have learned to let a lot go now and just say screw it I cant change it.

I did find my trigger it when I have too many carbs I know doesn't make sense but carbs seem to trigger mostly bread.

I did start taking some CBD oil for pain and it suppose to help with anxiety my wife takes it when she is getting anxiety or panic attack.

 

[LK3]

until my early 30s i would come off entirely from time to time and run pct.
think i got a chick prego n diecided not to do that again... lol :lightbulb:

used to run some very harsh recovery stuff too...
clomid 300mg first day dropping 50 per day more or less over the course of 2 weeks. sometimes running 100mgs ed for another week or so.

20-40mg nolva ed
1 ish mg ana ed

would have to mark the calendar and make mental notes to not make any major life decisions during that time... lol clomid at those doses is a mind fuck! crying n shit. lol bad bacne too.

have come off more then once with nothing too...

sure feels good to go back to trt after is all i can say! lol
no more off for me!

i go down to lowest possible trt dose for a while each year.

also be careful with these meds as they can for sure increase sperm count.

 

[NEMSZ]

Thanks for the replies fellas!

Taking everything into consideration but what I think I’m going to do is just stay off TRT and everything for now, not take any PCT meds as I don’t want to make drastic moves without even knowing what’s going on.. Will probably get a baseline of hormones in a few weeks and also put my paranoia/anxiety to rest during that time and when I get everything back I’ll go back on TRT and evaluate hormones from there after a few weeks of starting back...

 

[BG]

I have a somewhat unpopular opinion on the matter but I feel like i should speak up because it is somewhat of a dissenting opinion that merits thought.

I think it would be supremely beneficial for you to take time off of everything for a multitude of reasons. And I don't think you should HCG and PCT you should just taper off test and allow your endocrine system to naturally regulate itself in this time that you are taking a break from training. I don't think there is a single medical professional that would tell you the practice of blasting and cruising does not meet the medical definition of drug abuse. If you were to replace testosterone with any other recreational or medical compound we're talking a while different thing right? Well- why?

Beyond the risk of potential psychological addiction and negative self concept issues that may or may not exist, I have another really great example of why you should lay off the gas should you feel the complete opposite of me.

The drugs will work better if you give your receptors a break.

Use this time away from training to master your diet and self control. Practice your posing. Develop mobility through any stretching and soft tissue work you are able to do in your current condition. And come back a more mobile and healthy athlete, with a fresh rejuvenated CNS and a highly primed metabolism.


An athlete ready to respond super well to drugs specified nutrition stimulus and rest.

Im with this 100%! I don't have all the scientific stuff, just what works for me and my opinion. I never did the blast and cruze and only ran a long cycle once for about 9 months... but even with that one, I just stopped. EVERYTHING! Took a few months for me to feel normal but after.. I was back hitting the weights heavy and able to break personal records while off. I wont go on a long rant, but like I said, I agree with the above. Good luck. Take care of yourself