For the guys who’ve come off completely (even TRT)

[jeroendebleser]

I applaud you for even considering coming off of everything. Not something I can see myself doing anytime soon

 

[Joltan]

So I’m going over some options of what might be best for me at the moment so basically I’m 28 and been on self prescribed TRT for like 6-7 years or so, before that was on/off with cycles from 18-21/22.. Haven’t used any harsh AAS in about 4-5 years with the occasional blast in the last few years being inconsistent and only being higher dosed Test of 600-750mg, and I did one consistent blast end of 2017 beginning of 2018 of just that, Test and GH in those doses and 4-6iu ED... I got in an accident in Feb of last year so that came to an end and went back to TRT, long story short I haven’t been able to train correctly since then because of that and some life obligations with the exception of some cardio and some body exercises...

So with that little back story here’s a little more recent info;

End of 2018 (late December) I ended up going to a psychiatrist because I was having crazy panic attacks and stress because of business and personal life issues and it just got to me, the last 2 years and change have been REALLY rough on me.. He wanted to put me on SSRI but I refused, gave me Xanax as needed for panic but January I took it daily never exceeding 2mg and slowly tapered my dose down to where now the last few weeks/month I’ve only taken about 0.5mg at night and I’m able to handle oncoming anxiety/panic by breathing and positive thoughts.. January to mid February I was off TRT but resumed again until 2 weeks ago, I stopped just out of laziness but those 6-7 weeks I was off I did feel more tired and less motivated.. I’ve gotten bloodwork in this time and everything is perfect except Vitamin D was deficient (while on TRT, Test was in healthy range and didn’t get Estro tested but was only using 100-120mg weekly).. Even went to cardiologist and was cleared as perfectly healthy (anxiety was getting the best of me and really makes one’s mind think there’s a health issue)..

So with all that being said, I’m not sure what to do; I kind of want to give my body a break and just be off everything especially since I can’t even train correctly at the moment (will be able to again in a few months) but not sure if to try and kick start my natural system with some HCG and maybe some other things the more knowledgeable guys can point me to or just let my body naturally try to come back? I’m also worried about the anxiety etc if having low test would agitate that? My doc told me high test can actually cause it but have read some on here experience it with low test and skewed estro levels...

Sorry for the long story but wanted to give as much info as possible, again, mentally I’m much better than the end of the year/beginning but I’m still not 100% myself.. This might just be my anxiety just overthinking it all too lol

Thanks in advance guys..

I used to get bad panic attacks from testosterone. I've read that using AAS can cause you to be deficient in DHEA and Pregnenolone. When you are low on Pregnenolone it can cause anxiety and panic attacks. Might be worth it to take some and see if you feel any better, or get your levels checked.

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

I used to get bad panic attacks from testosterone. I've read that using AAS can cause you to be deficient in DHEA and Pregnenolone. When you are low on Pregnenolone it can cause anxiety and panic attacks. Might be worth it to take some and see if you feel any better, or get your levels checked.

^^^alot of guys supplement with these along with TRT and feel great

me? ..as far as cming off? ..i'v tried n' it's not pretty ..i started @23 and now i'm twice that age

..before i ever would'v had to consider "losing the physique", i couldn't deal with feeling like shit
..and if i'm honest, i don't think i would'v been as productive as i'v been in the past without it, and i doubt that would be any diff today

+ i'v also never had any real/lasting health issues with AAS
^^^always temporary, or able to "adjust" them away

^^^long story, short ..i'm on for life now for sure ..tho not the way i would'v written the story, i'm fine with it ..all things considered, i think i'm better for it too

 

[NEMSZ]

I applaud you for even considering coming off of everything. Not something I can see myself doing anytime soon

Thanks bro, though I’m only doing it since I can’t really train to full capacity at the moment and might as well take a break and see where my body is at..

I used to get bad panic attacks from testosterone. I've read that using AAS can cause you to be deficient in DHEA and Pregnenolone. When you are low on Pregnenolone it can cause anxiety and panic attacks. Might be worth it to take some and see if you feel any better, or get your levels checked.

Thanks for the info bro, I’ll definitely look into these and I’m probably going to start seeing the same urologist my pops has, super open minded guy and I’m sure he’ll see eye to eye with me if my levels aren’t up to par, I’ll bring those things up with him too and see what’s up..

^^^alot of guys supplement with these along with TRT and feel great

me? ..as far as cming off? ..i'v tried n' it's not pretty ..i started @23 and now i'm twice that age

..before i ever would'v had to consider "losing the physique", i couldn't deal with feeling like shit
..and if i'm honest, i don't think i would'v been as productive as i'v been in the past without it, and i doubt that would be any diff today

+ i'v also never had any real/lasting health issues with AAS
^^^always temporary, or able to "adjust" them away

^^^long story, short ..i'm on for life now for sure ..tho not the way i would'v written the story, i'm fine with it ..all things considered, i think i'm better for it too

Yea bro I’m not expecting to feel 100% amazing like I do on TRT but hoping youth is on my side, I’ve come off for a month or 2 before and felt a difference but it wasn’t unbearable, don’t know how it’ll be months and months down the line but I do agree with some guys who’ve said a lot is mental.. I already lost a good amount of muscle/size due to not being able to train correctly and not eating as much and I do IF as it is so I’m not looking anywhere near my best and I’m ok with it..

As I stated above I’m going to see a urologist and maybe I can get this whole thing done while being evaluated and prescribed, sure would be nice...

Thanks again for the replies guys, lots of good advice..

 

[j2048b]

Estro is tricky.. but honestly it's the only thing I test consistently.. with every dose I do I wait 3 to 4cweeks then get a estro test. . Estro causes most of the " mental" mind tricks. I know if I do 200mgs of test I have to use 6.25 of aromasin twice a week to be around 25 e2.. at 300.gs test I use 6.25 mgs of aromasin to be at around 40 e2..



If my estro gets high I get very " weepy".. hell I'll get teary eyed at commercials. I also get anxiety and worry about all types of shit. It's amazing not having control of your e2 can do to some guys emotions

Well shit there's my problem

I will say I went off trt about 1.5 yrs ago, and I'm honestly dying.... Dying of low test, high estro, lazzyness, fatigue, and basically being a Weiner head to a lot of people because my estro is out of whack and so is my test,

I'd tell the op, I've had good days, not many, and bad days which have far outweighed the few good days I've experienced, that's why I say drop down to a low low dose of say 10 to 20 mlgs either every day or EOD..... Add in some hcg as I am about to do for mood along with some sust and possibly try some primo and see how it goes


I've also been on Xanax .05 for a very long time, and what sucks is when u miss a dose u feel it, wish I could switch to something else tbh

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[NEMSZ]

Well shit there's my problem

I will say I went off trt about 1.5 yrs ago, and I'm honestly dying.... Dying of low test, high estro, lazzyness, fatigue, and basically being a Weiner head to a lot of people because my estro is out of whack and so is my test,

I'd tell the op, I've had good days, not many, and bad days which have far outweighed the few good days I've experienced, that's why I say drop down to a low low dose of say 10 to 20 mlgs either every day or EOD..... Add in some hcg as I am about to do for mood along with some sust and possibly try some primo and see how it goes


I've also been on Xanax .05 for a very long time, and what sucks is when u miss a dose u feel it, wish I could switch to something else tbh

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

I was already on a low dose before of 100-120mg per week spread in EOD shots... I’ve never measured my Estro so I’m not sure where it was at but in a few weeks I’ll get a baseline of everything.. I don’t think yo-yoing the hormones is the answer and not saying that’s what you’re recommending but you’ve already been off 1.5 years so you’re at a baseline as it gets, also not sure your age but I’m sure that can come into play...

I too was prescribed Xanax in beginning of January and have tapered down from 2mg daily in January spread out through the day to 1mg-1.5mg in February and then the last month to month and a half I’ve come down from 1mg and made my way down to 0.5mg-0.25mg only at night.. I’m going to stop taking it completely in the coming weeks.. I know it’s not good for testosterone production but also I never wanted to make a habit of it and get nasty withdrawal side effects which I know higher doses are more prone to it which I never took but still... Only needed it to get me through this mental hurdle I’ve never been through before and now I can manage..

How old are you if you don’t mind me asking? And how long have you been on Xanax?

 

[Fit2Serve]

i too suffer from anxiety so i am sorry to hear that. And i know how miserable it is.
If you can recover after @6 years of trt i'd be really surprised. i tried coming off everything at 38 so was older but my test level was 55 i felt like shit all the time. achy if i did anything. it sucked.

i dont know if i would get off completely even if i could. i do kinda regret ever getting on... but now kinda stuck. if i were you i would try my best to come off and stay off.

how does @40 more years of pinning sound? i get soooo tired of pinning. i skip few weeks of shots just cuz i'm over it. tired of it.
-F2S

 

[NEMSZ]

i too suffer from anxiety so i am sorry to hear that. And i know how miserable it is.
If you can recover after @6 years of trt i'd be really surprised. i tried coming off everything at 38 so was older but my test level was 55 i felt like shit all the time. achy if i did anything. it sucked.

i dont know if i would get off completely even if i could. i do kinda regret ever getting on... but now kinda stuck. if i were you i would try my best to come off and stay off.

how does @40 more years of pinning sound? i get soooo tired of pinning. i skip few weeks of shots just cuz i'm over it. tired of it.
-F2S

Yea I’ve never suffered from anxiety or any kind of panic ever.. This was a totally new experience for me and kinda put me in a depression for a bit as I didn’t feel like myself and thought something was wrong with me.. But as I’ve read more and done research and been proactive about getting back to normal and shifting my focuses and making changes everything is on the up and up...

Everyone says how bad coming off is/feels but I would imagine that because of the comparison to being on and I personally don’t remember what it was like being off in the first place but I’m not trying to think much about it in that sense.. I honestly don’t feel any different now 3 weeks off but I’m sure it’ll take more time to get a real baseline..

I feel the same way kinda, about ever starting.. I’m like fuuuuuuck man, can I really inject myself until I’m in my 70’s-80’s or beyond? Will they invent something else? I remember you posting about taking time off pinning every now and then because it gets old.. I feel that way now so I can imagine in another 10+ years... I’m going to see what my levels are at when I do baseline bloodwork and see how I feel, it would be nice to never have to inject again. I’m actually curious how I’d perform and how I can look naturally now..

 

[LK3]

lol
thats the thing i always ask ppl when they ask about aas.
do you want to inject for the rest of your life?
if you are not willing to say yes to that commitment do not fuck with aas in the first place. :lightbulb:

sure its possible to recover but...
its like going from a civic to a ferrari then being stuck in a civic for life. lol

 

[Fit2Serve]

lol
thats the thing i always ask ppl when they ask about aas.
do you want to inject for the rest of your life?
if you are not willing to say yes to that commitment do not fuck with aas in the first place. :lightbulb:

sure its possible to recover but...
its like going from a civic to a ferrari then being stuck in a civic for life. lol

OMG, best way to describe it EVER! thats exactly how i will explain it to newbs.
Bbing was the biggest "chasing of the wind" in my life. Enjoy it IF you decide to take the plunge cuz it all goes away in the end. but man i looked badass thru my 30's
-F2S

 

[blkhrt_jordan]

I have a somewhat unpopular opinion on the matter but I feel like i should speak up because it is somewhat of a dissenting opinion that merits thought.

I think it would be supremely beneficial for you to take time off of everything for a multitude of reasons. And I don't think you should HCG and PCT you should just taper off test and allow your endocrine system to naturally regulate itself in this time that you are taking a break from training. I don't think there is a single medical professional that would tell you the practice of blasting and cruising does not meet the medical definition of drug abuse. If you were to replace testosterone with any other recreational or medical compound we're talking a while different thing right? Well- why?

Beyond the risk of potential psychological addiction and negative self concept issues that may or may not exist, I have another really great example of why you should lay off the gas should you feel the complete opposite of me.

The drugs will work better if you give your receptors a break.

Use this time away from training to master your diet and self control. Practice your posing. Develop mobility through any stretching and soft tissue work you are able to do in your current condition. And come back a more mobile and healthy athlete, with a fresh rejuvenated CNS and a highly primed metabolism.


An athlete ready to respond super well to drugs specified nutrition stimulus and rest.

This is great advice.

 

[NEMSZ]

lol
thats the thing i always ask ppl when they ask about aas.
do you want to inject for the rest of your life?
if you are not willing to say yes to that commitment do not fuck with aas in the first place. :lightbulb:

sure its possible to recover but...
its like going from a civic to a ferrari then being stuck in a civic for life. lol

Lmao that’s an excellent metaphor!

But yea, that’s something that was never even mentioned when I started, I remember on forums 10+ years ago people would talk about PCT and time on = time off etc... Then in my early 20’s I stated seeing more of the TRT and blast and cruise etc and thought I wouldn’t mind it and it was no big deal.. But of course minds change and now I’m just annoyed lol I don’t feel like pinning every week let alone every day, I don’t want to worry about traveling for a few weeks or a month or more and having to take things with me or possibly moving somewhere else and what if it isn’t as easily accessible? So many variables, but mostly the comfort and annoyance thing with me..

I’m just seeing where my body is and if I can’t recover anywhere near optimal levels then I’ll just get back on through a doc and do it the right way.. Also tired of all the variables and worries of being on something and having to monitor yourself...

 

[TODouble2]

i decided to come off the test for a month or so.. after being off, when you add it back in you feel it so much more. i used to never be on board with coming off, but after coming off for fertility reasons (and not recovering) i felt brand new when adding test back in. something ill do once in a while from now on.

also, for some reason i am very lazy on test. sex drive is actually a pain in the ass at times. i get more done when I'm off believe it or not. more motivated somehow. so much so, that im actually considering a no-test blast. maybe some npp just to see how i feel.

 

[NEMSZ]

i decided to come off the test for a month or so.. after being off, when you add it back in you feel it so much more. i used to never be on board with coming off, but after coming off for fertility reasons (and not recovering) i felt brand new when adding test back in. something ill do once in a while from now on.

also, for some reason i am very lazy on test. sex drive is actually a pain in the ass at times. i get more done when I'm off believe it or not. more motivated somehow. so much so, that im actually considering a no-test blast. maybe some npp just to see how i feel.

Yea I’m at 3-4 weeks now and I don’t feel any different, maybe sex drive us down just a tad but I’m also really busy right now and have been having long days so it’s not even really on my mind... Also, don’t you think 1 month is short to expect to recover? I see guys usually taking around 6 months to a year to recover fertility wise, others have luck on TRT and some aggressive HMG/HCG...

But that’s definitely not a reason for me to come off, I’m actually worried about the fertility lol

 

[TODouble2]

Yea I’m at 3-4 weeks now and I don’t feel any different, maybe sex drive us down just a tad but I’m also really busy right now and have been having long days so it’s not even really on my mind... Also, don’t you think 1 month is short to expect to recover? I see guys usually taking around 6 months to a year to recover fertility wise, others have luck on TRT and some aggressive HMG/HCG...

But that’s definitely not a reason for me to come off, I’m actually worried about the fertility lol

no buddy i have been off for a year and a half in the past, on high dose hcg and clomid. also have used HMG too. i have to be the only person to use that stuff without success.

this time around its only been a month, and im only doing it so i can reintroduce test and feel good on it again. i have given up on recovery at this point.

 

[NEMSZ]

no buddy i have been off for a year and a half in the past, on high dose hcg and clomid. also have used HMG too. i have to be the only person to use that stuff without success.

this time around its only been a month, and im only doing it so i can reintroduce test and feel good on it again. i have given up on recovery at this point.

Oh well yea that’s a different story, do you mind me asking your age? I’m hoping being young will help me out lol

 

[hexarel13]

didnt need a post cycle for me after 1000mg test for 6 months

 

[NEMSZ]

didnt need a post cycle for me after 1000mg test for 6 months

Have you gotten bloodwork or just going by feeling? Also, was that your only blast/cycle ever? I’ve been on Test a considerable amount of time longer...

 

[LK3]

Lmao that’s an excellent metaphor!

But yea, that’s something that was never even mentioned when I started, I remember on forums 10+ years ago people would talk about PCT and time on = time off etc... Then in my early 20’s I stated seeing more of the TRT and blast and cruise etc and thought I wouldn’t mind it and it was no big deal.. But of course minds change and now I’m just annoyed lol I don’t feel like pinning every week let alone every day, I don’t want to worry about traveling for a few weeks or a month or more and having to take things with me or possibly moving somewhere else and what if it isn’t as easily accessible? So many variables, but mostly the comfort and annoyance thing with me..

I’m just seeing where my body is and if I can’t recover anywhere near optimal levels then I’ll just get back on through a doc and do it the right way.. Also tired of all the variables and worries of being on something and having to monitor yourself...

i think back then we were more delusional in some of the realites, though we have not seen the full outcome of that mentality.

there has been a surge i would say in steroid usage over the last 20-30 years.

i have been reading these boards litteraly every day for close to 20 years!
sort of embaressing... lol

and i feel like in general we went from a thinking of steroids are scary n bad to oh look! they are not bad at all and cant hurt you! to the realites of... eh, lol maybe you will be ok. lol lets hope! probably especially if you take a lil precaution. but.... civic vs ferrari.

and really, ist the introduction of exo test really like that?
i mean.. its not a real ferrari... you need to be in the nfl to have one of those. more like a kit car. lol

keep that shit top notch with a lot of maitenance and you sure as shit can have 99% of ppl thinking its a ferrari... slack off on the matenance and up keep... 3 years later you are broke n back in 1985 hoopdie.

now i hear and understand what you are saying but also think...
how much is real and how much is social?

if you had ready access to any sort of hormone product you liked at a reasonable price with out fear of legal or social stigma/harm would that have an impact on your decision.

you mention travel.
to me this is a personal effect. no one should have any say or interest in this outside of you. so if no one cared n you could pack your test with your toothpaste regardless of the label. would this change your mind?

if so...
do you really want to allow other ppl to have that sort of control on how you live and expereince your life?

we are in very murkey water here. lol

 

[NEMSZ]

i think back then we were more delusional in some of the realites, though we have not seen the full outcome of that mentality.

there has been a surge i would say in steroid usage over the last 20-30 years.

i have been reading these boards litteraly every day for close to 20 years!
sort of embaressing... lol

and i feel like in general we went from a thinking of steroids are scary n bad to oh look! they are not bad at all and cant hurt you! to the realites of... eh, lol maybe you will be ok. lol lets hope! probably especially if you take a lil precaution. but.... civic vs ferrari.

and really, ist the introduction of exo test really like that?
i mean.. its not a real ferrari... you need to be in the nfl to have one of those. more like a kit car. lol

keep that shit top notch with a lot of maitenance and you sure as shit can have 99% of ppl thinking its a ferrari... slack off on the matenance and up keep... 3 years later you are broke n back in 1985 hoopdie.

now i hear and understand what you are saying but also think...
how much is real and how much is social?

if you had ready access to any sort of hormone product you liked at a reasonable price with out fear of legal or social stigma/harm would that have an impact on your decision.

you mention travel.
to me this is a personal effect. no one should have any say or interest in this outside of you. so if no one cared n you could pack your test with your toothpaste regardless of the label. would this change your mind?

if so...
do you really want to allow other ppl to have that sort of control on how you live and expereince your life?

we are in very murkey water here. lol

Oh back then people were definitely delusional, I remember it being constantly talked about on forums that steroids didn’t effect health negatively and it was all just blown out of proportion and paranoid doctors lol...

And I get what you’re saying towards everything else except when you ask; how much is real and how much is social?

Not sure what you mean there but I don’t think any of it is social, I’m not worried about what people think or say, it’s just mostly about me being comfortable.. Maybe it’s that I’ve also been overly busy lately with a lot on my mind so it seems like a chore to me to get needles ready and pin, even if it’s only 2 minutes, it’s something else I have to remember..

As for the question of if I was able to take it with me or easily access it wherever I go would it change my mind? Yea, it most likely would cause it’s something I wouldn’t have to worry about always having a supply of in that hypothetical scenario... So if you’re asking no matter where I move or travel to if I can take my Pharma Test with me and always have a supply until I die, then sure, sounds good.. But there’s no guarantees with that..

As for part of the real scenario; I’m looking to move within the next few years.. I’m in South FL, you know where as we’ve both talked about being here and you’ve spent some years down here and not sure how long it’s been since you’ve been here but this place gets worse by the day, no exaggeration...

Now I MIGHT be willing to stay in the US but looking at places like Oregon or Washington or Colorado, something more relaxing and with nature and not so much this bullshit, glorified wannabe famous and pretentious city this place has turned into. And if I do I know I can probably access or get scripted my Test fairly easily here in the states.. But I’m also looking into places in Central/South America, Canada, and some countries in Europe and I have no idea how I can go about getting a script in some of those countries or how easily supplied things are (I know in central/South America in some places I was able to just walk into a pharmacy and buy Bayer Testoviron amps)... Also plan on doing much traveling around in the future so that’s a slight but easily solved obstacle, but still.. You get where I’m going..

Just trying to think of the future as well as right now I’m just annoyed and trimming the fat of everything that doesn’t absolutely need to be on my mind..