For those juicing over 20 years...How do you feel?

[johnjuanb1]

This right here should be stickied on every forum IMO...it's not even so much the dose, it's the weight. You made a lifestyle change so no longer need daily medication that was causing you problems. How many calories are you able to eat per day to maintain your weight?

I have 2,300-2,800 calories over 5 to 6 meals/shakes.

 

[pickapeck]

In my 60's. Been on 30 years, probably more, losing my memory, just kidding.
I did everything wrong for years. I have severe heart disease in my family. Killed my father and my older brother. 16 years ago, I had a heart attack and bi-pass surgery. My doctor told me that my heart was big and strong like the rest of me. He said whatever I've been doing saved my life. He said a weaker man would not have survived. He told me HRT was extremely healthy for me. He said my body and my cardiovascular system was of a man 25 years younger. He said honestly, but don't quote him, my lifestyle of strength training, high protein, cardio (never did enough till recently) and adding a reasonable amount of testosterone made me a great example of health and fitness. He said without my lifestyle I'd be dead for 20 years already.
I'm a little different because I've been a full-time trainer for 30 years, competed in power for 22 years. So, I'm in the gym 7 days a week. Basically, NEVER miss a workout!!!!
My point is I have some sore joints but, I'm the healthiest I've ever been. BTW my sex drive is over the top!! LOL
Just be smart with anabolics.

Unrelated but how are you dealing with worn lower back and knees? What is your routine to offset those issues. I am in my 60s as well.

 

[N9na]

I'm 50. 25+ years in. I feel good. At 50 some days are better than others. I don't feel beat up though. I still train pretty good. More cardio moves now. Heavy bag, light weights high reps, old man walks. And I can still fuck pretty good.

 

[Reno911]

the fact I doubt I ever get REM sleep. I never did a sleep study or got a CPAP which I’m sure I need since I toss and turn 20 times a night and am in a dream-like state all night yet half awake most of the night. I won’t go to doctors.

I guess I would ask "why" to this?

CPAP was game changing for me. When you're depriving your heart and brain of oxygen it's not going to play out good over time.

 

[johnjuanb1]

I guess I would ask "why" to this?

CPAP was game changing for me. When you're depriving your heart and brain of oxygen it's not going to play out good over time.

I’m not interested in going to a doctor unless I need surgery.

 

[krman]

I'm going on 19 years now and I definitely know that it has effected my health some. When I was uneducated about the stuff, I used to do stupid cycles and I didn't even care. I always thought more was better back then. But now that I am much more educated, I do things much differently. Unfortunately, my blood pressure is suffering from my mistakes I made when I was in my 20's. I'm now in my forty's and do minimal.
If I could have changed anything, I guess I wish I would have educated myself much more when I was younger. Education is definitely the key. I'm glad I have a place like this to talk to so many people way more experienced than myself. Professional muscle has probably saved me from having way more issues then I do.

 

[MightyJohn]

I'm 42...1st cycle was 100-5mg russian dbol at 17(senior HS)...then off/on since...usually always on light test(300mg) these days
Summer add 30-40Var & 80-120mast(keeps Me lean...feel great, think about doses I used to run & wonder what the fuck I was thinking)
I also train moderate weights, no squatting etc(herniated discs)
I feel great

 

[Reno911]

I’m not interested in going to a doctor unless I need surgery.

You might just wanna grab one of Craigslist or eBay if that's the case.

 

[Flex500]

This right here should be stickied on every forum IMO...it's not even so much the dose, it's the weight. You made a lifestyle change so no longer need daily medication that was causing you problems. How many calories are you able to eat per day to maintain your weight?

I could not agree more. I mean, as a blanket statement if every "hardcore" bber shed 10%-15% bw and reduced doses all around by 20%-30% you'd see a pretty big health impact.

Of course, many will say they would no longer be "hardcore" or a even a bodybuilder at that point, but that is probably the type of thinking as a subculture we need to get away from. Random dudes like Piana or Golem or (fill in the blank name of 'live big and die young' type person) but as an entire subculture if we take a step to lower bw it would help.

 

[Sixfoottwo]

I could not agree more. I mean, as a blanket statement if every "hardcore" bber shed 10%-15% bw and reduced doses all around by 20%-30% you'd see a pretty big health impact.

Of course, many will say they would no longer be "hardcore" or a even a bodybuilder at that point, but that is probably the type of thinking as a subculture we need to get away from. Random dudes like Piana or Golem or (fill in the blank name of 'live big and die young' type person) but as an entire subculture if we take a step to lower bw it would help.

Yes and then bodybuilding would get boring. Let's be honest, we like to see the big guys like Phil, Jay, Kai. Sure the Classic Physique guys are cool too but just less.

Same goes for other sports. Tour de France would be boring if contestants took the healthy route and cut the length of the race in half or whatever.

 

[qbkilla]

I could not agree more. I mean, as a blanket statement if every "hardcore" bber shed 10%-15% bw and reduced doses all around by 20%-30% you'd see a pretty big health impact.

Of course, many will say they would no longer be "hardcore" or a even a bodybuilder at that point, but that is probably the type of thinking as a subculture we need to get away from. Random dudes like Piana or Golem or (fill in the blank name of 'live big and die young' type person) but as an entire subculture if we take a step to lower bw it would help.

I agree with this. The bp meds, CPAP, cholesterol meds, metformin, long acting slin aren't really address the root problem we have, massive stress on the body from an extremely high BMI. It's almost like taking an energy drink when tired, it makes you wake up and able to function, but it isn't the same as getting enough sleep.

 

[Flex500]

Yes and then bodybuilding would get boring. Let's be honest, we like to see the big guys like Phil, Jay, Kai. Sure the Classic Physique guys are cool too but just less.

Same goes for other sports. Tour de France would be boring if contestants took the healthy route and cut the length of the race in half or whatever.

This is a fair and honest statement that I simply do not have an answer to. Maybe it gets boring but I'm even more referencing guys that don't compete. Most of the friends I have that have past didn't/don't compete and I can't help but think if they lived 15 years at 225 instead of 260 and took much less drugs they may be alive today.

I'm also looking at this more as a broad brush approach and general statement. At the highest level of the Mr. Olympia it probably "is what it is".

I'd argue some of the guys (like I was at one point) walking around as an amateur at 275 at 5'8" who think they are hyuuuuuge would place better if they dropped the bw and drugs. I'm also not talking about dudes going from 3 grams to 10mgs daily trt. I'm thinking very modest alterations.

 

[Flex500]

Yes and then bodybuilding would get boring. Let's be honest, we like to see the big guys like Phil, Jay, Kai. Sure the Classic Physique guys are cool too but just less.

Same goes for other sports. Tour de France would be boring if contestants took the healthy route and cut the length of the race in half or whatever.

JohnJuan is probably exactly the type I'm referring to. Less drugs and less bodyweight and I guarantee he turns heads and looks like a freakshow right now. He's doing that while getting healthier.

Guys like Nasser El Sonbaty are going to do what they do. Let em live.

 

[Sixfoottwo]

This is a fair and honest statement that I simply do not have an answer to. Maybe it gets boring but I'm even more referencing guys that don't compete. Most of the friends I have that have past didn't/don't compete and I can't help but think if they lived 15 years at 225 instead of 260 and took much less drugs they may be alive today.

I'm also looking at this more as a broad brush approach and general statement. At the highest level of the Mr. Olympia it probably "is what it is".

I'd argue some of the guys (like I was at one point) walking around as an amateur at 275 at 5'8" who think they are hyuuuuuge would place better if they dropped the bw and drugs. I'm also not talking about dudes going from 3 grams to 10mgs daily trt. I'm thinking very modest alterations.

I get the point. But what if those big amateur guys just love what they do no matter the end result. It's not like they didn't know it was unhealthy or what the consequences good be. Or at least they could have easily known.

I don't know, I guess I'm just more like let people do what they want. If someone wants to carry 300 lbs of muscle and doesn't care if he dies at 40, who are we to judge. I voluntarily signed up to join Special Forces knowing damn well what could happen and it was kinda annoying that most people couldn't just think "well let him do him" haha.

 

[marssel]

I personally started at 29... But light usage.. When i say light usage i did 1 10ml bottle for 10 weeks.. didn't really know what the hell i was doing for the 1st 10+ years of juicing... Not til i joined PM did i know what a REAL cycle was...THEN for 3-4 years i'd say i went "heavy"... from 44-47 years old which were my competing days.... at 48 i really backed things down once i stopped competing (TRT dosed Test and 2ius of HGH)... I feel pretty good other than a weird feeling that i believe is in my kidneys. Got bloods done Friday and am just waiting for the results. Aint gonna lie i am concerned... Other than that i feel pretty good... Strength isn't the same... Not as defined anymore but can give 2 shits. Found the love of my life and wanna stick around for a good while...Just hoping i haven't done too much damage... wondering what is worse... juicing moderately for 20 years or blasting for 3-4 years

Started at 23 on competition pause bc new Born baby but I feel good aside from being out of shape due to not sleeping/eating/ cardio my labs are good I think aside from genetics starting after 21 is the biggest safe move when it comes to gear bc your body has naturally completed its hormone cycle.

 

[graybass]

Unrelated but how are you dealing with worn lower back and knees? What is your routine to offset those issues. I am in my 60s as well.

Hey! Thanks for asking.
Both my knees had totally torn Quad tendons about 5 years apart. As soon as I was able I started my leg training after surgery. I'll never go heavy again but I do light squats, leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls. Been 16 months since my last surgery. Just now starting to feel better and walk normal but, I'm very encouraged with my progress.
Lower back has been a challenge for a while. Many doctors no relief. I recently started really stretching my lower back. The stretch is primarily to put the curve back in the lower lumbar muscles and spine.
Lay on your stomach and arch up as far as you can. Repeat. Also just standing up place your hands on the curve of your lower back, push into it and lean back as far as you can go. Don't force it. This simple stretching routine changed my life!
Try it let me know. You can still make you knees and lower back stronger!

 

[OuchThatHurts]

♥ i'm at 25yrs now ..& going ..& will go till the end
..use has always been a constant ..sometimes lighter ..sometimes heavy (..as goals dictated)
..did my share of experimenting for sure

→ i feel great
→ look great
→ can still push cardio
→ no health issues ◄except for an occasional tweek, or injury ◄but they were never too serious
..shoulders have become a lil tender & seem to have "gravel in them" ◄bearable tho & does not stop me from training
..i take no medication for any health problems/conditions

→ i regret absolutely nothing
..matter of fact; ..i seriously attribute some of my career-success to the bolstering effects of AAS/PEDs
..don't think i could have weathered the years of stress & demand as well as i did without the support of these incredible drugs


.

Right on Hells yeah.

 

[pickapeck]

Hey! Thanks for asking.
Both my knees had totally torn Quad tendons about 5 years apart. As soon as I was able I started my leg training after surgery. I'll never go heavy again but I do light squats, leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls. Been 16 months since my last surgery. Just now starting to feel better and walk normal but, I'm very encouraged with my progress.
Lower back has been a challenge for a while. Many doctors no relief. I recently started really stretching my lower back. The stretch is primarily to put the curve back in the lower lumbar muscles and spine.
Lay on your stomach and arch up as far as you can. Repeat. Also just standing up place your hands on the curve of your lower back, push into it and lean back as far as you can go. Don't force it. This simple stretching routine changed my life!
Try it let me know. You can still make you knees and lower back stronger!

Thanks for the reply. My knees are banged up too. 3 knee surgeries over the years and not much meniscus in the lateral side of one of them. Low back has degeneration. I was martial arts guy for many years so always stretched and still do after every workout. Back 7 years ago my low back was very much a mess after all the heavy squats, deads etc and grappling. Lots of docs and PT but no relief until I went to yoga. Did that for 8 months and it helped my joints overall, especially back but not the lifestyle for me. Skiny EMO guys farting and docile with string bean chicks that smell wierd and have shrines in their bedrooms made me want to cholke someone mostly. I can only squat light but lots of hypers and hip work and the low back gets stronger and I can push harder but in the end either the low back or right knee holds me back. Such as it is. I wish I could buy or at least try a reverse hyper. It seems that would possibly help significantly.

 

[pickapeck]

I get the point. But what if those big amateur guys just love what they do no matter the end result. It's not like they didn't know it was unhealthy or what the consequences good be. Or at least they could have easily known.

I don't know, I guess I'm just more like let people do what they want. If someone wants to carry 300 lbs of muscle and doesn't care if he dies at 40, who are we to judge. I voluntarily signed up to join Special Forces knowing damn well what could happen and it was kinda annoying that most people couldn't just think "well let him do him" haha.

I think most of us agree that we are all free to our pursuits. The issue is that sometimes it is difficult to watch self destruction especially during the fall. Could Ronnie have lifted in a way that now he would be more functional?a Sure but he wouldn't have been Ronnie. But it's still hard to watch the decline of a superman. Anyone that would have taken an oportunity to deny Ronnie the chance and effort to be Ronnie the way Ronnie chose to be Ronnie just deosn't get what drive is. Drive is what makes us do the stupid and the incredible. It's a fine line that mankind walks to move the race forward.

 

[Flex500]

I get the point. But what if those big amateur guys just love what they do no matter the end result. It's not like they didn't know it was unhealthy or what the consequences good be. Or at least they could have easily known.

I don't know, I guess I'm just more like let people do what they want. If someone wants to carry 300 lbs of muscle and doesn't care if he dies at 40, who are we to judge. I voluntarily signed up to join Special Forces knowing damn well what could happen and it was kinda annoying that most people couldn't just think "well let him do him" haha.

Well I actually have solidarity with your opinion here. I'm firmly in the libertarian philosophy of life so I'm not suggesting some sort of mandate or forcing anything just like folks can be obese and "do what they do" so to speak.

What I'm suggesting is we have a large amounts of folks 35+ with health issues and/or have died. If you even look at Dante's last post (and many others) much of it is around all the folks who reach out riddled with regret and begging for help. I think all I'm suggesting is more and continued discussion like JohnJuan had above.

It really only took someone just like him for me to change my view at 30. Some will, some won't.

Heck maybe all I'm just suggesting is keep things going with the health discussions like we have been the last few years.