For those who compete - how lean do you stay in the offseason? (2 part question)

[jackedrabbit]

This is a 2 part question for those of you who compete.

First off, at my last contest I was 154 in lightweights. Shortly after, I did a very controlled rebound (aside from 1 cheat day, I was back on a planned offseason diet and my coach raised calories as needed) and within 3-4 months I had shot up to 195 and as I grew, I felt tight skinned and looked lean (even appeared to grow leaner!!). I felt amazing. I was eating 4000 planned calories a day and I treated myself to foods I enjoyed (sushi, pizza, ice cream) about 2x per week. I had never experienced growth like that. I was also using Test, EQ, and Dbol.

Soon after this 3-4 month "window" leveled off, I found that my body sort of hit a plateau and the growth stopped. My joints were hurting anyway, and it was time for me to cruise...fast forward another 3 months and I had "recomped" in a BAD way. I shrunk down to 185-187, but I was stronger. I just didn't have that tight skinned, dry look.

I feel like my past bulk hasn't even come close to what I experienced during my rebound/bulk. I'm beginning to think that UNLESS you "prime" for a bulk, or do a show, NO BULK can ever replicate what occurs during a rebound. I'm also beginning to think that your body cannot maintain that sort of look, that sort of growth for too long. Inevitably, you either run into joint problems by piling on so much weight on your body and on the bar, or you need to come off orals or taper down for those who blast and cruise...

Any thoughts on this? Any of you experience this first hand?

I talked to my coach about it and he said it's a common thing. He also said that there's a BIG difference when you are starved and GROW into a weight, versus not being starved and trying to grow into that same weight. Case in point - I tried to bulk back up to that 195...where I had that look I wanted, and it just wasn't the same. So I decided to cut instead and prime...which is what I'm currently doing.

The second part to my question is this:

When you guys bulk, how fat do you get? And should one go by percentage of bodyfat? Or how one looks, since we all store fat differently? I bring this up because it wouldn't be wise to cut a bulk short just because you have some fat on the abs but the rest of you is still lean and able to keep bulking.

I have a very hard time with this, and my coach told me I must move up a weight class to be competitive. We've tried to bulk me up more, but every time I get a little fat, I tell him adamantly that I want to cut...and he obliges me so I end up not gaining as much as I should.

There are 2 camps to this - guys who say bulk up and cut down when it's time, then there are guys who say bulk lean because it's less time and less fat to cut off when it's time to prep.

I do agree...to a certain point, you're just getting fatter. And that fat needs to come off.

I just don't know what an acceptable threshold is, or what mine should be. Is it normal to keep tricep striations, quad veins, and a six-pack while in the offseason? I've seen the pros - they get bloated and fat and they shred when the time comes. But they also have 200 pounds of muscle on me, so any fat on them doesn't matter because they still look like mountains!

As I mentioned above, right now I am priming for my next bulk...trying to get down to 180. I just don't know how bulked up I should get. I've never gotten "fat" before because I PANIC when I see some little fat rolls when I sit down.

Sorry for such a long read, but maybe this has been on your mind once in the past. Can someone help a fellow BB'er out?

 

[Omega-Red]

Hey Dude, I feel exactly where your coming from and for whatever its worth heres what i think, your going to have to accept that when your not carrying a huge amount of muscle (this includes myself ), when trying to grow you cant expect to be walking around huge, ripped and super veiny...because reality is your not really growing as your to focused on trying to keep a "look".

However on the other side of things dont become a fat ass whos spooning down thousands of calories and has fat hanging over his pants. I think the best way to approach it and how im trying to right now, is use tools to keep you lean and hungry to grow....you may look softer and less tied in but you will grow....and when you cut that up your gonna like twice the bodybuilder. Things that you can use to keep yourself leaner would be :-

supps:- gh, t3 , low dose fat burners....

training hard, fighting to keep strong and implementing a light amount of cardio.

nutrition:- eating foods that agree with your body, and eating certaing macronutrients at different times of the day focused around your activity level.

I was watching some of the guys who have been in the limelight and up n coming, you can clearly see when they were growing they were not hard, full and popping with veins, they looked soft and big BUT they werent fat by any means...

anyway that my 2 cents and yes i do agree if you get a bit overly fat cut back for a few weeks but i think if your trying to maintain quads veins your not really going to grow any significant. thats my outlook anyway.

 

[Sieve]

Diet DIET DIET...and DIET

 

[jackedrabbit]

Hey Dude, I feel exactly where your coming from and for whatever its worth heres what i think, your going to have to accept that when your not carrying a huge amount of muscle (this includes myself ), when trying to grow you cant expect to be walking around huge, ripped and super veiny...because reality is your not really growing as your to focused on trying to keep a "look".

However on the other side of things dont become a fat ass whos spooning down thousands of calories and has fat hanging over his pants. I think the best way to approach it and how im trying to right now, is use tools to keep you lean and hungry to grow....you may look softer and less tied in but you will grow....and when you cut that up your gonna like twice the bodybuilder. Things that you can use to keep yourself leaner would be :-

supps:- gh, t3 , low dose fat burners....

training hard, fighting to keep strong and implementing a light amount of cardio.

nutrition:- eating foods that agree with your body, and eating certaing macronutrients at different times of the day focused around your activity level.

I was watching some of the guys who have been in the limelight and up n coming, you can clearly see when they were growing they were not hard, full and popping with veins, they looked soft and big BUT they werent fat by any means...

anyway that my 2 cents and yes i do agree if you get a bit overly fat cut back for a few weeks but i think if your trying to maintain quads veins your not really going to grow any significant. thats my outlook anyway.

I like this.

I mean, a lot of it is in my head I know. I hate a watery six-pack, and I hate when I have some skin/fat folding over my compression shorts.

This is how I look now, and I think it's FAT. I'm not fishing for any compliments, I seriously have an issue and it holds me back. Once I get bulking it subsides, but that fear..oh man...

And yeah, at 5'8 and 185-190 I'm pretty fucking small. Here's a pic or two from last week and I also put up a pic of me in contest shape. (First 3 pics)

Also, HERE IS WHERE I WAS 195-200...I was on all sorts of shit and still growing while appearing just as lean or leaner. And then I leveled off.....

Slight difference in lighting, but a difference. (Last pic)

 

[jackedrabbit]

In terms of bodyfat, looking like I do in those FIRST 2 PICTURES...would you suggest I keep bulking? Or trim down?

I think I needed to trim down, so that's what I'm doing now. Going for a look similar to the LAST PICTURE.

I think it's best to start a bulk at 8-9% and go no higher than 15% or until you can't see your abs anymore.

 

[fade]

I think if you keep freaking out about your bf%, you will always stay around the 195lbs range and 10 years from now you'll look back and wonder why you haven't gotten any bigger.

 

[jackedrabbit]

I think if you keep freaking out about your bf%, you will always stay around the 195lbs range and 10 years from now you'll look back and wonder why you haven't gotten any bigger.

I already am feeling like this. I think I've short changed myself...

Can you give me your opinion on those first 2 pics? Could/should I have kept bulking?

 

[fade]

I already am feeling like this. I think I've short changed myself...

Can you give me your opinion on those first 2 pics? Could/should I have kept bulking?

yes, absolutely keep bulking. Don't bulk like an idiot though. Keep your cardio in there, carb cut offs, make sure you're not going up in weight so fast that it can only be fat accumulation..etc.

Do your best to keep fat gains to a minimum while making damn sure that your strength is going up.

 

[jackedrabbit]

yes, absolutely keep bulking. Don't bulk like an idiot though. Keep your cardio in there, carb cut offs, make sure you're not going up in weight so fast that it can only be fat accumulation..etc.

Do your best to keep fat gains to a minimum while making damn sure that your strength is going up.

My day to day diet isn't an issue. I weigh all of my foods on a scale and I have a pre-determined meal plan with planned meals every day, etc. My coach usually makes these for me. I eat the same meals every day for X weeks and then we adjust when I get sick of eating the same things.

My problem is cheat meals, or snacking. I seem to think that when I bulk, I can go out to eat more with the woman, or randomly eat free food put out at work. THAT'S where I fear I will slip, or have slipped in the past.

Also, when I put on even a tiny bit of fat, it all goes to my abs. I've seen some guys just look BIGGER when they get fat because it's evenly distributed. So you see, even a little bit of chub makes me look bad even though my bf % is still quite low.

So I guess I just gotta suck it up and work with what God gave me. And perhaps have more confidence in my own self control and just follow what's on the spreadsheet diets 90% of the time.

I really do need to move up to middle weights next time I compete. I'm too tall to be LW.

 

[Jcagle]

Hey man, give yourself some credit. The picks you posted look great. I'm not sure which pics had you at 200 lbs but you had abs in all of them so great job. Competing is a mind f&@k! When you get that lean and conditioned, you want to stay there and look that way. So, in the offseason you put on weight it sucks. But like fade said, if you don't want to look back 10 years from now looking the same.
I am in your shoes man. My first show I went from 205 and competed at 154. The next year I did cardio like a mad man stayed a 175.I put on 3-4 lbs of good muscle and competed at 158. This offseason, still doing cardio, just not as intense, eating when hungry and trying new things. I am sitting at 190. I look like I did last offseason an 175. Only next show will tell how much I put on. In all honesty, you have a coach, or prep guy right? Do you trust him? If you do man.....do exactly what he tells you to do!! If you don't trust him.....time to prospect out, right? This site hosts some damn good prep guys! Good luck man. Keep plugging away! It's a long process for guys like us! As long as your progressing, your doing good!

 

[Getnbigger2]

My day to day diet isn't an issue. I weigh all of my foods on a scale and I have a pre-determined meal plan with planned meals every day, etc. My coach usually makes these for me. I eat the same meals every day for X weeks and then we adjust when I get sick of eating the same things.

My problem is cheat meals, or snacking. I seem to think that when I bulk, I can go out to eat more with the woman, or randomly eat free food put out at work. THAT'S where I fear I will slip, or have slipped in the past.

Also, when I put on even a tiny bit of fat, it all goes to my abs. I've seen some guys just look BIGGER when they get fat because it's evenly distributed. So you see, even a little bit of chub makes me look bad even though my bf % is still quite low.

So I guess I just gotta suck it up and work with what God gave me. And perhaps have more confidence in my own self control and just follow what's on the spreadsheet diets 90% of the time.

I really do need to move up to middle weights next time I compete. I'm too tall to be LW.

I'm not sure if you are listening to what the guys are saying in this thread. In order to get bigger, you have to eat, and eat alot. I don't care how much stuff you are taking. It is all about the diet. Answer this question, do you want to get bigger, or do you want to look good and "see your abs". Do you have a fast metabolism? Or is it hard for you to lean down? If your metabolism is even decent, take in enough calories to grow all year long. No one can tell you the exact calorie # for you to grow, not even your coach. They can give a good estimate, however if you want to grow you have to eat more. Screw the scale and weighing your food. Just make sure you eat enough.
I competed in my last show at 193, up 6 lbs from the year before. My weight got up to 240, all the time while I was eating more than enough to grow. I could have stayed around 210 all year long with abs and have people say "man he is fit, or man he is in good shape", but I wanted to grow and get bigger. I plan to hit 250 this offseason with hopes of being in at the top of 198 class. So, there you go. Getting bigger is the farthest thing from rocket science. Lift heavy and continue to progress, all the while eating as much clean food as possible with random junk mixed in. So yes, take a woman out to eat and stop worrying about it.

 

[jackedrabbit]

I'm not sure if you are listening to what the guys are saying in this thread. In order to get bigger, you have to eat, and eat alot. I don't care how much stuff you are taking. It is all about the diet. Answer this question, do you want to get bigger, or do you want to look good and "see your abs". Do you have a fast metabolism? Or is it hard for you to lean down? If your metabolism is even decent, take in enough calories to grow all year long. No one can tell you the exact calorie # for you to grow, not even your coach. They can give a good estimate, however if you want to grow you have to eat more. Screw the scale and weighing your food. Just make sure you eat enough.
I competed in my last show at 193, up 6 lbs from the year before. My weight got up to 240, all the time while I was eating more than enough to grow. I could have stayed around 210 all year long with abs and have people say "man he is fit, or man he is in good shape", but I wanted to grow and get bigger. I plan to hit 250 this offseason with hopes of being in at the top of 198 class. So, there you go. Getting bigger is the farthest thing from rocket science. Lift heavy and continue to progress, all the while eating as much clean food as possible with random junk mixed in. So yes, take a woman out to eat and stop worrying about it.

It's easy for me to lean down. All I need to do is add 30 min of cardio and I can lean down on 2500-2700 calories at my weight. I've never had issues with losing fat. Gaining weight is my problem, but not because I can't, but because I let my insecurities get to me and I stop short before I even really get started.

I will remind myself that I don't want to look back with regret. I want to get bigger. I need to pay my dues then. My gf doesn't care if I get fatter. The only person who cares is me, because I'm afraid people won't think I'm a BB because I don't look it. At my size, if I get fatter I just look "normal". But I guess I'll never be a better, bigger bodybuilder by staying the same.

Oh, and it's the last pic where I'm close to 200. I was 195 morning weight there.

 

[BigJB]

It's easy for me to lean down. All I need to do is add 30 min of cardio and I can lean down on 2500-2700 calories at my weight. I've never had issues with losing fat. Gaining weight is my problem, but not because I can't, but because I let my insecurities get to me and I stop short before I even really get started.

I will remind myself that I don't want to look back with regret. I want to get bigger. I need to pay my dues then. My gf doesn't care if I get fatter. The only person who cares is me, because I'm afraid people won't think I'm a BB because I don't look it. At my size, if I get fatter I just look "normal". But I guess I'll never be a better, bigger bodybuilder by staying the same.

Oh, and it's the last pic where I'm close to 200. I was 195 morning weight there.

the sport is bodyBUILDING. It's not a diet contest, its about bringing enough muscle on stage to look like a bodyBUILDER, being lean year around is awesome, and if you have the genetics to do so and still gain size at an optimum rate (most likely not) than more power to you. For the vast majority of guys with average genetics, you're gonna probly have to let the abs go by the wayside for abit in favor of building LBM as quickly as you can.

 

[cm]

this thread is great and well timed for a lot of people, but I am confused that someone needs to get to be 50 pounds over there competition weight?
that seems like a bit too much indulgence. 200 to 150.... or 250 - 198 too fat for my taste. too may issues w / blood sugar, timing for workouts with food, peps, other supps. too demanding keeping up all that slop. imagining skin issue can creep in as well
-c

 

[Getnbigger2]

this thread is great and well timed for a lot of people, but I am confused that someone needs to get to be 50 pounds over there competition weight?
that seems like a bit too much indulgence. 200 to 150.... or 250 - 198 too fat for my taste. too may issues w / blood sugar, timing for workouts with food, peps, other supps. too demanding keeping up all that slop. imagining skin issue can creep in as well
-c

I agree that a 50lb drop may be too much for many competitors. However, I have been training DC for a while and I all I am concerned with is progressively beating my log book. I compete it tested organizations, so in order to progressively beat my log book I have to use the only really legal anabolic substance, FOOD. For example. My show in July I competed at 193 lbs. My plan is to gain around 6 lbs per month, 1.5 lbs per week while getting stronger in the gym. By January, my weight will probably be around 235 or so at this rate. 1.5 lbs per week allows for me to get continue to get stronger due to a higher calorie intake. 3500 calories is about maintenance. I take in about 4,500-5000/day and continue to get stronger.

My current weight is 205 at about 9-10% bodyfat. If I would eat more around maintenance calories I guarantee I could maintain this bodyfat level, but strength gains would begin to deminish.

This is the reason for the large amounts of weight gain, only to maximize time for strength and growth. It is not so I can become sloppy, just so that I can continue to change.

How many people do you know that compete and train with high volume workouts, never increase the amount of weight they use, eat normal amounts of food and maintain 12% body fat? Each year they show up at the next competitions to look about the same as the previous year.

Do as you will, however I have not met many people that can get considerably bigger or stronger staying lean all year around.

 

[jackedrabbit]

I agree that a 50lb drop may be too much for many competitors. However, I have been training DC for a while and I all I am concerned with is progressively beating my log book. I compete it tested organizations, so in order to progressively beat my log book I have to use the only really legal anabolic substance, FOOD. For example. My show in July I competed at 193 lbs. My plan is to gain around 6 lbs per month, 1.5 lbs per week while getting stronger in the gym. By January, my weight will probably be around 235 or so at this rate. 1.5 lbs per week allows for me to get continue to get stronger due to a higher calorie intake. 3500 calories is about maintenance. I take in about 4,500-5000/day and continue to get stronger.

My current weight is 205 at about 9-10% bodyfat. If I would eat more around maintenance calories I guarantee I could maintain this bodyfat level, but strength gains would begin to deminish.

This is the reason for the large amounts of weight gain, only to maximize time for strength and growth. It is not so I can become sloppy, just so that I can continue to change.

How many people do you know that compete and train with high volume workouts, never increase the amount of weight they use by a significant amount, eat normal amounts of food and maintain 12% body fat? Each year they show up at the next competitions to look about the same as the previous year.

Do as you will, however I have not met many people that can get considerably bigger or stronger staying lean all year around.

Bolded, revised part = me. lol

 

[vincent]

Sorry be off topic..you made the cat unrecognizable too haha. That cracked me up. That just made my day haha

 

[BigJB]

this thread is great and well timed for a lot of people, but I am confused that someone needs to get to be 50 pounds over there competition weight?
that seems like a bit too much indulgence. 200 to 150.... or 250 - 198 too fat for my taste. too may issues w / blood sugar, timing for workouts with food, peps, other supps. too demanding keeping up all that slop. imagining skin issue can creep in as well
-c

I believe GETNBIGGER underestimates himself He'll be more like 205-210 next time he's on stage.

 

[jackedrabbit]

I think a 20-30 pound drop is reasonable. Considering 10-15 pounds OVER contest weight is pretty fucking lean to be walking around at, so tack on some more pounds to account for necessary fat gain as you continue to pack on muscle.


Any other bodyfat guesstimations on my pics above?

 

[oreolo]

2 DC posts to cure your indecision

]I ain't a competitor, but have been having the same issue with my mind jumping around like a headless chicken whenever I lose my abz my monkey mind cost me ten years of wasted lifting and money spent on supps (and I am only 32)

The cure was a couple of posts by a very very intelligent gent named doggcrapp who frequents this very board. The guy has a way with words that will give Obama a run for his presidency. I will copy and paste his two posts that got me thinking and then you make up your mind.

Cutter, Bulker, Cutting, Bulking-WHAT A CROCK OF BULLSHIT by Doggcrapp


If i never hear these words again in my life it will be too soon. I cringe everytime i hear someone (straight from bb.com) say "im coming off a bulker and now im doing a cutter"..What the hell is that?..that is the most idiotic concept ever! So what your doing is taking 2 steps forward for 4 months and then 1.5 steps backward for 4 months and repeating over and over? Talk about a waste of valuable time! Half your freaking year is gone to hell because your cutting for half of it and gaining no muscle. How bout a novel concept for you? How bout getting dramatically larger over time with huge food (protein) intake and super heavy training but adhering to carb cuttoffs and doing cardio (for increasing hunger and keeping bodyfat at bay reasons) so that you stay lean!!!!!!!!!! Gee whiz, might that be a better way?!

Bulker: An Excuse to become a fat **** for the sake of beleiving your putting on muscle mass to others and yourself (and you probably are but at a 50/50 ratio of muscle to fat--wow thats awesome!)

Cutter: 3-5 months of wasted muscle building time (trust me youll be building very little muscle mass during this) in the quest of turning yourself back from a fat slob you turned yourself into to someone presentable.

THINK ABOUT IT!!!! Your 200lbs, eat like a 250lb guy to get freakshow bigger, and train like a rhino with heavy weights to get larger but also do everything in your power (green tea, cardio, carb cuttoffs) to keep at a bodyfat percentage that your proud of or can live with. This is all about turning your body into a muscle building fat burning blast furnace!

If you do bulking and cutting for the next 2 years and with all those "cutting cycles" adding up to a years time, guess what you just gave up a year of lifting--one year of nonexistant muscle mass accumalation. Thats like lifting for the next 6 years and you only get 3 years of productivity out of it. See the problem is, alot of people try to stay lean year round while also tryng their hardest to put on muscle mass and they do it all wrong. They eat like a 190lber trying to get to 250lbs and think that--by some miracle that will get them there. This is all about becomeing a food processing machine here. Take in a surplus (protein/food), create a demand to put on muscle (seriously heavy lifting/DC training) and then taking care of excesses and burning them off (carb cuttoffs/cardio/thermogenisis)----eating and training like a 300lbs offseason behemoth but doing everything else in your power to be that guy walking around at 7-14% bodyfat (whatever floats your boat)....See its not that hard, just think it out....but most of all dont waste your freaking time taking 2 steps forward and 1.5 steps backward....this is about constant forward progress. If I hear anyone say "cutter" or "bulker" again on this board, you get the official title of "bodybuilding.com guy", like a scarlet letter.

This is constant bulking and cutting at the same time and you dont forsake one for the other unless your competing for a show.
You turn yourself into a machine and you keep that machine evolving. Does anyone in this forum actually beleive that if you are 200lbs and doing cardio 3-4x a week at 30-45 minutes a pop but eating 400-500 grams of protein and a shitload of food to get bigger that - YOUR ACTUALLY NOT GOING TO GET BIGGER BECAUSE OF THAT CARDIO? If your not getting bigger then your either not eating enough or your a young guy whose metabolism is so fast that your one of the lucky ones who doesnt have to do cardio. Thats another story I have to write about one of these days--Cardio. Every time I hear a guy tell me...."I just cant eat enough"....I ask him "are you doing cardio?", and he gives me that puzzled look and thinks "why should I do cardio? I have trouble gaining weight and eating enough".....BINGO!!!!! What do you think cardio does? You get up in the morning and start your day with some cardio I guarentee youll be starving the rest of the day and be eating like a damn horse. IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME. Cardio is a two way street--increases hunger and keeps you lean. You have trouble getting bigger? Add cardio first thing in the morning after 30 grams of protein in water and some bcaa's and watch yourself eat the rest of the day! You wont be missing meals, youll be starving. Which leads me to getting off this computer because im starving.I wrote this very fast because im late--so sorry bout that
________________________________________________________________

The second post is the following

Thank you!!!!!!! (and then yet again below I read that people again are going to the extreme here)......maybe just maybe you dont have the genetics to gain 50 pounds of muscle mass in a year as so badly you want to do. And maybe just maybe when you find yourself gaining "way too much" in pounds of fat you might want to think "hey before i go any further and get any fatter, maybe i am impatient here and Ive eked out as much muscle mass as possible in this short of time.....and I am being an idiot because I keep getting fatter and fatter so i can complain about it later on intensemuscle" instead of doing exactly what jeff is saying up above.

a) it quite simple
b) eat alot of clean food to get bigger
c) time your carbs around your workouts and cardio correctly
d) use key supplements for both mass gain and fat loss
e) stop f*&king worrying about being "all or nothing" and find the Freaking median line on the graph you need to f&^king be at!
f) do cardio
g) if you are a fat peice of crap now and think getting bigger is going to solve your problems....ITS NOT!!!!! Get to a bodyfat percentage that is pleasing and start from there and do the above!
h) Do i sound frustrated -- YES I AM....this aint that freaking difficult!!! You dont all of a sudden turn around and go "holy crap, overnight I turned into an obese person" no more than that fat person over there who doesnt even lift thinks "holy crap, overnight I turned into an obese person".....wake the hell up....you should of took control a long time ago.
i) Here i just did a Flex shoot with Dusty Hanshaw, why dont you ask Dusty Hanshaw what I had him do in the beginning? Please do! I didnt like his bodyfat percentage so I paleo dieted him down to a bodyfat percentage I wanted to see and then we started from there.
j) If you are an "all or nothing", its either "zero or 1 million" bodybuilder, I have a guarentee for you.....you are going to be the most unhappy unsuccessfull bodybuilder there is...bottom line. Get a grip and find your median level
k) Can someone please please find my culker, butter, culking, butting article and paste it up here please.
l) Has anyone even took me up on that "you need to start off your day with 30 minutes of cardio" yet or are you still going to overthink this to the umpteenth degree with "all or nothing"
m) Skip is nuts
n) Time is the ultimate tool in bodybuilding, everything will come together with TIME IN if you stop overthinking the process, set progressive wheels in motion and then let time take its course.
o) Inpatience is the ultimate detriment in bodybuilding. Jump around to this and that and that over there for the next few years and wake up 4-5 years from now realizing you just lost 4-5 productive years of bodybuilding that you are never getting back
p) Skip is crazy
q) Kai Greene just finished a sentence that he started yesterday at 7:15pm
r) Any inkling of maybe taking on someone training wise has been totally wiped out by this thread....thank god im out.
s) Skip is 2 eggs short of a full dozen donuts
t) I can always tell who is going to be successful in bodybuilding. The guys who are eclectic and set a course and then stay on it without always questioning it wake up 6 months/1 year/2 years down the road with 5 - 20 more pounds of muscle mass at the same bodyfat.....while the guys who go one week and then start overanalyzing/overthinking the most intricate details (when they should be thinking of school, work, girlfriends etc) self implode and wake up 2 years later looking just like you would think they would.
u) Skip / the unabomber---ever see them in the same room together? Coincedence?
v) I tried to make it to Z, I just dont have it in me. Note to self: You dont ever want to train anyone ever again and this confirms it for you