Forced strength vs. natural strength

[jlm25]

Check out Layne Norton's DUP style of training. I have been on a similar program and I have grown exponentially from it. My strength has gone up considerably as well. My percentages are based off of my 3 rep max on the big 4 lifts. I don't go to failure very often either. There has been good research suggesting that if you train to failure often, you are actually reducing your total volume moved versus leaving 1-2 reps in the tank (which allows more total volume moved)

 

[doug1]

Check out Layne Norton's DUP style of training. I have been on a similar program and I have grown exponentially from it. My strength has gone up considerably as well. My percentages are based off of my 3 rep max on the big 4 lifts. I don't go to failure very often either. There has been good research suggesting that if you train to failure often, you are actually reducing your total volume moved versus leaving 1-2 reps in the tank (which allows more total volume moved)

This is too heavy for older folks, like me. Failure isn't the culprit with injuries, it's the weight and when failure is hit.

 

[doug1]

Here's my take, from someone who is almost 45, been doing this since 14, done every training system from DC, German Volume, and everything in between. If injuries have been sustained at some point, even DC at a weight of failing at 15+ reps, can still hurt. Now, having said that, I experienced my greatest strength gains with DC, no doubt about that at all. Many DC principals can still be applied even with injuries. Pick an exercise that doesn't cause the pain, or not nearly as much. Shorten the range of motion some, make more out of the negative, focus more on the quality of the rep than the number of reps.
Now, if you're gonna abandon DC principles and up the rep range even more than prescribed and go high volume and go for the pump only and have less strain on joints, you may experience a slight gain in size from mitochondria buildup. The thing is, you have to continue spending a lot of time with lots of pumping sets, to maybe maintain. Eventually some degree of size will be lost from lack of Type 2 fiber stimulation.

 

[PitbullTank]

One thing im also doing i forgot to mention is only really trying to beat the logbook on my first big compound exercise... i usually now do about 3 exercises per body part and hit each body part around every 4-5 days .. my first exercise is my biggest compound lift where im really trying to dump all my strength and beat the book powerbuilding... the second exercise is another compound but i dont focus on the book, just failing in a rep range usually around 10ish... my last exercise i isolate and concentrate on really feeling the muscle work w squeezes, holds and other intensity adder techniques just putting as much blood in as possible till target feels like its gonna pop. .. i like those intensity adders like mtut, iso holds, rest pause, negatives, squeeze and hold, etc...

The poundages in the 2nd amd third exercises have gone up over time, but i havent forced myself to beat the book on them..

 

[B-Trotter]

I just want to hear some opinions on this.

I've tried a few "beat the log" programs and something seems of when I try them.

I do a certain number of reps and all, write it down, then gotta increase weight next session for same number of reps. Okay, cool...

I start adding more and more weight and even if I can perform the reps with reasonable form, it feels like an injury is about to happen. Growth is not that great either.

OTOH, if I'm good on nutrition, rest and perhaps some gear, a certain weight gets light and I naturally increase it. That just works better for me.

I understand I can beat the log in reps too, but most programs are designed for weight.

Thoughts?

Sorry to bump this, but a year on, how do you now feel about this topic?

I use the "wait until it feels light" method, too. Beating the log book EVERY working just isn't possible for me.

 

[goal245]

Tren makes my lifts go up by 50% or more, no special training program needed

 

[heavyhitter]

Tren makes my lifts go up by 50% or more, no special training program needed

50 percent???? So your bench goes from 300-400 just by using tren.Hmmm.....must be nice

 

[goal245]

50 percent???? So your bench goes from 300-400 just by using tren.Hmmm.....must be nice

3 weeks ago before I started tren 275 on incline for 6 reps felt heavy. Today 3 weeks into tren I did 405 for 8 reps and it felt pretty light.

If I added drol I would probably add another 100lbs in a few weeks but I can't tolerate it

 

[B-Trotter]

3 weeks ago before I started tren 275 on incline for 6 reps felt heavy. Today 3 weeks into tren I did 405 for 8 reps and it felt pretty light.

If I added drol I would probably add another 100lbs in a few weeks but I can't tolerate it

But 6 months post-tren you'll have lost the majority of that strength, even with an on-point diet and even if going back down to TRT doses; unless you're massively far away from genetic potential, of course. So programme consideration is definitely needed.

 

[goal245]

But 6 months post-tren you'll have lost the majority of that strength, even with an on-point diet and even if going back down to TRT doses; unless you're massively far away from genetic potential, of course. So programme consideration is definitely needed.

No, 2 weeks after I stop tren Ill lose it all

 

[maldorf]

5X5 programs, Dr. Fred Hatfield program from Soviets

I had a program I followed back in the late 80s and early 90s that was setup by Fred Hatfield and it was based on what the Soviets were doing. I did really well with that, but I was young and just starting out. I don't know how I would fair now with it. It was a powerlifting program. Added a lot of strength doing it. Squats really became much stronger.

I also followed a similar 5x5 program a few years later and did well with that. I would say these types of programs worked for me 8 times out of 10. I would use periodization and detrain for awhile afterward. Maybe your problem is that you never detrain. The detrain period is important for healing and resting up. You cannot go all out all of the time of course.

 

[maldorf]

3 weeks ago before I started tren 275 on incline for 6 reps felt heavy. Today 3 weeks into tren I did 405 for 8 reps and it felt pretty light.

If I added drol I would probably add another 100lbs in a few weeks but I can't tolerate it

That is a crazy good response. I never once experience that kind of strength gain from using anything. It makes me wonder how hard you push yourself when you are not on. Do you workout just as hard when you are not on? If your effort is always the same degree of effort and time then that is just crazy. Most guys do not get that kind of response.

 

[little slice]

3 weeks ago before I started tren 275 on incline for 6 reps felt heavy. Today 3 weeks into tren I did 405 for 8 reps and it felt pretty light.

If I added drol I would probably add another 100lbs in a few weeks but I can't tolerate it

hmm..

 

[maldorf]

hmm..

Yeah, something sounds a bit off there

 

[brutus69]

dc got me stronger faster than any other routine by far.
size? no. i got strong and fat.
when i added more volume is when i got muscle growth but by volume i mean 6-9 work sets only. still going to failure 3 times but with more sets overall.
every godam time i read these thread tho i wanna go back to dc.

 

[goal245]

That is a crazy good response. I never once experience that kind of strength gain from using anything. It makes me wonder how hard you push yourself when you are not on. Do you workout just as hard when you are not on? If your effort is always the same degree of effort and time then that is just crazy. Most guys do not get that kind of response.

I always train as hard as I can. The crazy strength gains for me are mostly on chest/shoulder exercises. bench press/ shoulder press etc.

Squats/ Deads stay more consistent and always strong

 

[Gravyv]

I don't train for strength anymore due to some chronic issues and risk of injury. I stick with high volume and go with the flow. Also like goal245 when I blast especially tren and anadrol my strength skyrockets but I lose it quick once I come off.

I never really noticed a big difference whether or not I try to keep as much strength as I can coming off a blast. Muscle and strength comes back quick with each blast and thats when I try to make some more progress. But nowadays I'm not going too crazy with it.