Friendly advice

[Fireman]

NO WAY!!!!!

Fireman........excuse me ? I was answering the question that w8 asked and we have personal dialog and he has asked my help before ,so I chimed in .

It was like you didn't even read my post before you answered smartly. I rarely post here anymore and if I do it is to help out guys on here that I have had personal interaction with before when I was more active . Not sure what your deal is with me .

I could care less if you or someone else wants to " up their game" as you say and certainly wouldn't judge you or else anyone else if that is your choice . But the fact remains most are using gear for the wrong reasons ,with unrealistic expectations . To risk your health ,freedom, and spend your hard earned money on drugs is not a great decision for 99% of the people here. Just to be the big guy in the gym ,local contest ,bar , at work ,and some how thinking getting big will some how change their lives for the better. Gear is a trap , the facts are you will never be bigger ,stronger ,or have that "certain look" once you go off. This isn't a fun reality to deal with for most .And some never can. [And those guys will die chasing that last 1/8 inch on their arms or few lbs of bdywt thinking it will some how change things for them] Ask Phil if I am wrong or any retired great pro they agree with what I am saying. I care about guys like W8 and try to tell them like it is ,because I have made my mistakes and learned some hard lessons along the way.

I am far from anti gear [very interesting subect and I have many opinions and observations as well].But I just think guys should really understand the realities of it . Do you want to stick a needle in your ass the rest of your life to look a certain way ? Do you know the risks ? Are you going to be chasing sources and new cycles into your 50s and 60s ? Could the money you are spending be better put toward something else ? Do you really have the genes to be a top athlete or bber ? [ I mean elite ] When you use in your teens and 20s you prementatly alter your endocterine system in most cases [you may recover but not like before] If and when you go clean can you handle it mentally ? [take it from me .....it sucks ] Can you handle losing your hair or some of the sexual sides that many don't talk about? Do you realize most woman don't like the look or the selfishness it takes to be a bber ? [and if she's into you on , is she going to like you soft and smooth if you ever go off?] These are just some of the realities [ just some ] that guys should be asking themselves before they ever go on . [this should come with at least a few yrs of heavy consistant training and eatting ahead of that as well......not a few months .....a yr .....or after on and off yrs of crash and burn training]

As far as age ......with gear it really doesn't matter you are correct .70 yr olds could be competive if there genes ,skin , and health hold out .But unfortunately ,most peoples bodies start to crash after about 10 yrs of hard use or so ......now hrt proticals and longevity methods are smart ,safe , and effective .They can preserve youth and be quite healthful if smartly put together . I am myself have been exploring hrt for several yrs , but have yet to partake because it is a serious decision imo, and there is know looking back, just as using for bbing purposes .

I am not sure what you distaste toward me here is and for that I am sorry ,when I do post I try to be a positive and help when I can . I honestly was just answering w8 , and refering to his adjustment to being natural for a quite awhile .........And I think you will agree that after 23 - 25 hormone levels begin to drop and gains naturally become much harder than in your teens or early 20s when those levels are sky high . After that, naturally gains become tougher each yr .[especially ,if you jacked things up by using when you were young ,then going clean like w8 did ......also when teens use they respond very well because their bodies are primed hormonally to grow.......they just have the devil to pay later and sooner than those that wait ] I am not sure what you took so insulting out of that info .......maybe english isn't your first language ? [ from your post ....maybe something was lost in translation?] Any way .......all my best with your goals ......sorry I rub you the wrong way.......take care

I might understand that you and others with many years of bodybuilding, are trying to educate now this young guys with so much ambition and desire but:

- This is a free world(at least it should be for everybody), people are free to speak and think for themselves and not you not me noone will ever be able to go to somebody and make it stop, just because we think thats wrong to take AAS or that guys are taking to much to soon... this is the wrong forum to try to preach that.

-Man if you wanna go clean good for you, but its funny how people wanna convert others to their own personal frustrations - let it flow dude...

- ITS ALL ABOUT TRIAL AND ERROR, its not yet the end of the world... Perhaps on the following years to come more powerful and sofisticated drugs will come to play and help bodybuilders to do it safely not just improving their physiques but also their health -

- BODYBUILDERS WILL ALWAYS WANT TO BE BIGGER AND BETTER - NO WAY YOU GONNA CHANGE IT - PERIOD.....

 

[thebrick]

But the fact remains most are using gear for the wrong reasons ,with unrealistic expectations . To risk your health ,freedom, and spend your hard earned money on drugs is not a great decision for 99% of the people here. Just to be the big guy in the gym ,local contest ,bar , at work ,and some how thinking getting big will some how change their lives for the better. Gear is a trap , the facts are you will never be bigger ,stronger ,or have that "certain look" once you go off. This isn't a fun reality to deal with for most .And some never can. [And those guys will die chasing that last 1/8 inch on their arms or few lbs of bdywt thinking it will some how change things for them] Ask Phil if I am wrong or any retired great pro they agree with what I am saying. I care about guys like W8 and try to tell them like it is ,because I have made my mistakes and learned some hard lessons along the way.

I am far from anti gear [very interesting subect and I have many opinions and observations as well].But I just think guys should really understand the realities of it . Do you want to stick a needle in your ass the rest of your life to look a certain way ? Do you know the risks ? Are you going to be chasing sources and new cycles into your 50s and 60s ? Could the money you are spending be better put toward something else ? Do you really have the genes to be a top athlete or bber ? [ I mean elite ] When you use in your teens and 20s you prementatly alter your endocterine system in most cases [you may recover but not like before] If and when you go clean can you handle it mentally ? [take it from me .....it sucks ] Can you handle losing your hair or some of the sexual sides that many don't talk about? Do you realize most woman don't like the look or the selfishness it takes to be a bber ? [and if she's into you on , is she going to like you soft and smooth if you ever go off?] These are just some of the realities [ just some ] that guys should be asking themselves before they ever go on . [this should come with at least a few yrs of heavy consistant training and eatting ahead of that as well......not a few months .....a yr .....or after on and off yrs of crash and burn training]

As far as age ......with gear it really doesn't matter you are correct .70 yr olds could be competive if there genes ,skin , and health hold out .But unfortunately ,most peoples bodies start to crash after about 10 yrs of hard use or so ......now hrt proticals and longevity methods are smart ,safe , and effective .They can preserve youth and be quite healthful if smartly put together . I am myself have been exploring hrt for several yrs , but have yet to partake because it is a serious decision imo, and there is know looking back, just as using for bbing purposes .

I am not sure what you distaste toward me here is and for that I am sorry ,when I do post I try to be a positive and help when I can . I honestly was just answering w8 , and refering to his adjustment to being natural for a quite awhile .........And I think you will agree that after 23 - 25 hormone levels begin to drop and gains naturally become much harder than in your teens or early 20s when those levels are sky high . After that, naturally gains become tougher each yr .[especially ,if you jacked things up by using when you were young ,then going clean like w8 did ......also when teens use they respond very well because their bodies are primed hormonally to grow.......they just have the devil to pay later and sooner than those that wait ] I am not sure what you took so insulting out of that info .......maybe english isn't your first language ? [ from your post ....maybe something was lost in translation?] Any way .......all my best with your goals ......sorry I rub you the wrong way.......take care

I like this post. Its obvious that its spoken from real world life experience. Will most listen? Doubtful. At least around here. But a few will and some will at least stop and think. These words need to be spoken because its the truth. If people choose to listen or not is their own decision. But there will be some that will look back one day and realize the road taken did not bring them very much.

 

[w8tlifterty]

Fireman, ignorance breeds ignorance... there is some free speech for ya. You have all of a few post yet want to stand up to those that have been here for many years and provided priceless info. To be honest, it really pisses me off. We have some of the brightest and most experienced minds 'in the game' and they're dropping like fly's cuz people like yourself. I would be more compassionate if you provided any useful info at all, however, your post are rambling junk!

You are one of the reason most vets stopped posting around here... First of all, you make little sense in your arguments (or lack thereof), second, what are YOU DOING???? Stop patronizing those that actually contribute something worthwhile here! Plz, for the sake of us that appreciate words of wisdom from years of experience. No one is trying to convert anyone. This is obviously an aas oriented board, which is great for those that choose to use or those of us that have in the past. No one really cares who uses or not, the guys that have been around awhile, are looking out for our health and just providing insight to what they may have done wrong (or right) in the past.



Phil, Iabadman, MD, Massive G, etc... plz carry on, there is some good info coming to light here. Plz keep it going.

 

[UGAthlete]

I love your idea on the classic guys section.......I 'd post weekly in that case ......maybe one of the great mods here will go to Big A about it and we can make it happen. It might just really help some people that are open and want to make some good decisions and have a good lifetime healthy expirience in bbing.

THIS!!

 

[maldorf]

I like this post. Its obvious that its spoken from real world life experience. Will most listen? Doubtful. At least around here. But a few will and some will at least stop and think. These words need to be spoken because its the truth. If people choose to listen or not is their own decision. But there will be some that will look back one day and realize the road taken did not bring them very much.

I wish to God I had stumbled upon that kind of post 10-15 yrs ago. things might be different for me today, I dont know. I was stubborn too though, and chose to ignore all the negatives I heard and down play all the side effects I would get while on. Like he said, once you get off its a terrible pill to swallow. You look in the mirror and you cannot stand what you have become. I can hardly stand to lift weights now or look at old pictures of myself. Of course for me its even worse, since my heart is wrecked now.

 

[almard]

Thanks G ,I know you if anyone can relate to how I feel .In fact, often it is when you come out of hiding and post or start some great new threads like you have as of late that I get excited again and want to start posting again.[thanks for what you have shared recently ......I wish you'd go back to the other thread you started awhile back on training and your progress .....evoloution......and your ideas ....on hrt [for cats like me ] , diet , and supps [ although you have covered the supps lately ].I always learn or play with things you share ......in fact ,the one e-mail you wrote me on training and diet from 05. I have saved ,and still go back and read it occasionally.....lol I love your idea on the classic guys section.......I 'd post weekly in that case ......maybe one of the great mods here will go to Big A about it and we can make it happen. It might just really help some people that are open and want to make some good decisions and have a good lifetime healthy expirience in bbing.

Anthony ....aka the "the Greek God " .....thanks for the back up....lol ...wink .....much love ....Happy New Yr to you and the wife .


Phil.......thanks for the things you share ......hope you and the fam are well ....you have an interesting style in which you present your ideas ......lol.....kinda of like a cat playing with a mouse....ha ha......
Do you think time becomes a factor as one gets close to max strength levels?......meaning the amount of work you can do in a given period of time
period. Say you gave yourself 10 min to work bis ....and you never do more than 3-5 sets with good form with a max weight. But if you upped the intensity and pushed to do more work in a given time period . Say trying to get 7-8 sets in that given time frame or even more.........would that increased work load make you a better bber ? [ G and others chime in as well] I am curious to your thoughts.

X2

also, when I hit strenght max, I can't get any more stronger whatever the diet, AAS doses,rest I change.... ??

 

[maldorf]

Do you think time becomes a factor as one gets close to max strength levels?......meaning the amount of work you can do in a given period of time
period. Say you gave yourself 10 min to work bis ....and you never do more than 3-5 sets with good form with a max weight. But if you upped the intensity and pushed to do more work in a given time period . Say trying to get 7-8 sets in that given time frame or even more.........would that increased work load make you a better bber ? [ G and others chime in as well] I am curious to your thoughts.

IMO upping the amount of work you do in a given time would lead to a more muscular physique. I take it in your example that you arent using any more weight for your sets, only doing more of them in the same amount of time? This is kinda like going the high volume route though, rather than higher resistance. I do think using more resistance and doing the same volume would produce greater results, but going the volume route would help to a point. ONce you have completed the usual 3-5 sets that you do, most of your motor units are going to be quite fatigued. Once you train beyond that point you will start to recruit motor units that youre not used to using, and they will have to take over the role. That is where I think gains would come from. I used to add a couple of extra sets like that when I hit a plateau. I would make some very minor strength gains after a month or so and then once I got strong enough, I would increase the weight and drop back to the usual number of sets. I think too this can be a safe way to increase intensity without getting injured. Intensity can be increased by decreasing the amount of rest in that workout time frame and hence doing more work in the same amount of time.

 

[Fireman]

GOOD INTEL

IMO upping the amount of work you do in a given time would lead to a more muscular physique. I take it in your example that you arent using any more weight for your sets, only doing more of them in the same amount of time? This is kinda like going the high volume route though, rather than higher resistance. I do think using more resistance and doing the same volume would produce greater results, but going the volume route would help to a point. ONce you have completed the usual 3-5 sets that you do, most of your motor units are going to be quite fatigued. Once you train beyond that point you will start to recruit motor units that youre not used to using, and they will have to take over the role. That is where I think gains would come from. I used to add a couple of extra sets like that when I hit a plateau. I would make some very minor strength gains after a month or so and then once I got strong enough, I would increase the weight and drop back to the usual number of sets. I think too this can be a safe way to increase intensity without getting injured. Intensity can be increased by decreasing the amount of rest in that workout time frame and hence doing more work in the same amount of time.

Just the way i like to train...

 

[maldorf]

Just the way i like to train...

I also feel like you can up intensity be merely resting less between sets and keeping the amount of work the same (IE not doing more sets). In this case youre increasing intensity because you are doing the same amount of work but in a shorter amount of time. This would challenge the motor units too. Phil has some of his trainees doing a workout like this now and they report great results. I plan on giving it a try if I can even get back on track and get some conditioning again. Its hard training now after my heart attack.

 

[maldorf]

Maldorf .....lets say you can strict db curls 50s for 9-11 reps for 3 sets .....and normally takes you 8 mins to get it done......my take is if you can get more sets ,shorter rest with the same wt , then your intensity has gone up and you accomplished more work in the same period of time .....therefore increasing stress and intensity......and if the time frame you are working in stays same then you shouldn't over train.........this is kinda what magnum , serge nubret , steve davis, and roy calendar used do .......except nubret and callender used to train for hrs.......I think one should keep it short and sweet like a sprinter not a runner......the old power factor training had some of these ideas and I always liked the science behind them

I really do believe, both hypothetically and from experience, that doing that will increase intensity and can lead to growth if everything else is there for you. I do think though that one must be careful doing this, because you can overtrain doing that. Even though the time length of exercise is the same, you have done more work. Do too much work and youll overtrain.
A safer way to avoid overtraining I think is to do the approach of not resting long between sets and doing the same amount of work youre accustomed to doing, but in a shorter amount of time. Each week, or at regular intervals, try to decrease your rest inbetween sets. Phil has a routine hes got his people doing now that sounds pretty intense.
The whole Mike Mentzer rest pause thing was really crazy. I tried that for 1 week and got so overtrained that I took almost the entire next week off,LOL. Thats one approach that is super high intensity and really low volume, just the opposite.

 

[Iabadman]

Ha ha actually my good friend pesty here pmed me yesterday your Dorian like stats Mr huge......lol......stating how much a tool you were .....hee hee......like I would care how big you are .......yeah right......I cant even say I have read any of pathetic illiterate posts prior to the one which you chose to insult me and another member of this board ......The English are tough people......they train hard and handle their business ..and I liked most of the people I met there minus the many chain smoking drunks.....but when I was there I earned my respect after handling mine as well. You make me wish I back across the pond right now and I hated the cold dark place.... tough guys ,but damm I have never seen more ugly people in my life ......ha ha ....seriously....wow......too bad.....if you don't get banned soon ....then maybe I could pm you if I am able to make it to Paris this summer to see my mon ami Phidias here........then we could take a little trip to see your amazing bad self ..........I am down if I can make it work

 

[Iabadman]

Yeah ....I like your observations Maldorf.....good stuff......I am training very fast and lighter at the moment and enjoying it ......clearly I am not going to get bigger at my age ,experience , and size without going back to drugs .......so why risk injury .....


I love Phils methods.....and DC 's just as much .....but when training that style ...my personality is to really get after it ......being clean , and older all those methods get me hurt and over trained ......I kind train vince gironda style now.......it fun and safe ....and feels like something I can do and enjoy the rest of my life ......

 

[oldfella]

Ha ha actually my good friend pesty here pmed me yesterday your Dorian like stats Mr huge......lol......stating how much a tool you were .....hee hee......like I would care how big you are .......yeah right......I cant even say I have read any of pathetic illiterate posts prior to the one which you chose to insult me and another member of this board ......The English are tough people......they train hard and handle their business ..and I liked most of the people I met there minus the many chain smoking drunks.....but when I was there I earned my respect after handling mine as well. You make me wish I back across the pond right now and I hated the cold dark place.... tough guys ,but damm I have never seen more ugly people in my life ......ha ha ....seriously....wow......too bad.....if you don't get banned soon ....then maybe I could pm you if I am able to make it to Paris this summer to see my mon ami Phidias here........then we could take a little trip to see your amazing bad self ..........I am down if I can make it work

LMAO...............J?? do not buy into this bullshit. You have nothing to prove to anyone here that certainly knows your pedigree bro. The best response to the nonsense is NONE!! Silence speaks the loudest in the circle of real men. You are one of the most respected here. Just let it go and enjoy the thread and the knowledge contained in it. Keep on giving up the good info. You have written and do write some very good stuff here, keep on it. And BTW, washed up???? WHo the fuck are you kidding??

 

[Iabadman]

Aww yeah the wisdom from the oldfella from OZ ......you are right and I appoligize .....when he insulted w8 who had my back I got irritated and got fired up[ I will fight for my friends here in a sec].......I miss you .....hope you are well in that beautiful place you call your home....drop me a line as to the latest happenings into your life as you do know I am interested and care..........

 

[oldfella]

Aww yeah the wisdom from the oldfella from OZ ......you are right and I appoligize .....when he insulted w8 who had my back I got irritated and got fired up[ I will fight for my friends here in a sec].......I miss you .....hope you are well in that beautiful place you call your home....drop me a line as to the latest happenings into your life as you do know I am interested and care..........

LOL.......All is good J. And getting our backs is what you do best. I have been watching this thread see-saw for some time now but it is good that the mods have basically let it be. We all let off some steam and get hot about our most emotional topics.............body building and drugs HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. And then there is women. I am waiting for DR. PHIL to give us some friendly advice on women.

Now there is a real topic for controversy. I must say IAB it is good to see you get in here and get all passionate again. I too am guilty of not postiong as much any more, but I will choose my battles more wisely now. It is this old age thing. I try to keep my blood pressure in check by not getting too upset about such trivia and bullshit. Trust me, the fire still burns hot in me and I will fire up if the occasion calls for it. Much of what you say with regard to intensity is very true. You do not need to change what you do as much as how you do to keep getting results. As long as you make the adjustments to your nutrition and supplementation accordingly. This does not always mean drugs either. Plenty of good supps out there for all you natty trainers. Just keep your eyes on this thread. Phil started something good here and it is good to see you jump in on this J. I will shoot you a PM shortly my friend.
Cheers!