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Front Loading 800-1000mgs of DNP?? WTF

True but even some facts just are not that believable or it just doesn't matter to people.
That's like saying the new "green" cleaning chemicals won't kill you if ingestested, but that doesn't mean I'm going out to drink them. At the end of the day it just doesn't belong in my body.
 
True but even some facts just are not that believable or it just doesn't matter to people.
Whether or not you care to acknowledge the facts and evidence is irrelevant. They are what they are and should be weighed appropriately.
That's like saying the new "green" cleaning chemicals won't kill you if ingestested, but that doesn't mean I'm going out to drink them. At the end of the day it just doesn't belong in my body.
This is a poor analogy because you gave no apparent benefit. You don't just subject yourself to potential risks for no benefit. Suppose that not only does the research on this green cleaner show that it has no major side effects, but that the chemical also cures male pattern baldness. It makes no difference that the chemical can also be used as a cleaner, a reagent, or an explosive.

It also doesn't make sense to say it doesn't "belong" in your body. A chemical, in and of itself, is not intended for anything. It's humans who do the intending. It's you who decides the belonging. We appropriate chemicals for varied purposes all the time. In this case, the "green" cleaning chemical is also a drug that produces a desirable physiological effect, treating baldness. That benefit may be worth the risks for someone, depending on what those risks are.
 
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Jesus fuking christ you right, is that what you wanted to read? Now I see why you are here.
 
This is silly.

Look, C, is totally correct with the way chemicals are categorized. Chemicals whether natural or synthetically produced for one purpose (or an unintended purpose) just "exist" without a specific role until science/medical intelligence studies it and views all its possible characteristics at given dosages. BTW, there is no such thing as a side effect unless you first determine what your primary role of a chem is. Example: Is Diphenhydramine an anti histamine that has a side effect of drowsiness, or is it a sleep aid that has a side effect of blocking histamine?

The primary and side effects to the desired intent of a chem are determined at different dosages and durations of use. Acceptable levels with respect to toxicity can be determined for side effects that are considered negative to health.

Many chemicals throughout history were never intended for human use until they were studied and found to have acceptable benefit to risk ratios based on their dosages, which ultimately gave classification such as "LD".

If I were to judge chemicals through your eyes Arm, I would never take Acetaminophen (APAP).

At 150mg/kg it is considered a fatal hepatoxic "poison".

So Acetaminophen IS a poison, anyone is a dumbass for even considering taking it... or are they?

Oh ya, at a the highest max dose of 90mg/kg it happens to be an acceptable analgesic that is sold OTC! Holy crap... Go figure ;)

The analogy is rough and maybe you can try to poke holes at it (not the intent here), but it stands to support the way we classify acceptable dosages and durations to certain chemicals used for a desired purpose. The line between neg and pos. for DNP may be much narrower and riskier to judge safety, but it can and has been achieved by many.

We know the negative effects of DNP use as well as the positive ones (hundreds of studies and trials), thus we intelligently weigh this information to acquire the desired action of DNP while minimizing the negative effects to a degree that will be "acceptable"

The risks are there, just as with any otc drug. overdosage and/or over duration will turn many common otc drugs into a "poison". Poison Control Operators definitely know this well.
 
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I chose DNP cause it was the fcking break i needed from alcohol.

??? I started shooting tar cuz I needed to quit smoking ice too.... WTF does having self control not to drink a case a day have to do with taking any drug?

I agree with Dr.S. Maybe alot of you guys arent familiar with him but he is pretty well known in the community and I have read TONS of his shit and cant help but conclude he is an expert...
 
??? I started shooting tar cuz I needed to quit smoking ice too.... WTF does having self control not to drink a case a day have to do with taking any drug?

I agree with Dr.S. Maybe alot of you guys arent familiar with him but he is pretty well known in the community and I have read TONS of his shit and cant help but conclude he is an expert...


WTF do you know about me? WTF do you know about what is right or wrong for me?

Am i 20lbs lighter....yes
did i kick an addiction...yes
will your girlfriend smile at me in the grocery store...yes

Dr.S isnt an expert on DNP and he proved that himself.
 
??? I started shooting tar cuz I needed to quit smoking ice too.... WTF does having self control not to drink a case a day have to do with taking any drug?

I agree with Dr.S. Maybe alot of you guys arent familiar with him but he is pretty well known in the community and I have read TONS of his shit and cant help but conclude he is an expert...

I appreciate the kind words Mace. I know I can't reach some of the guys on this thread, but hopefully some kid reading this thread will realize that using DNP to lose fat is a horrible idea. Com'on, we're talking about FAT BURNING! it's not like we are discussing how DNP could cure cancer/diabetes/rheumatoid arthritis---then MAYBE it could be worth the risk...but we are talking about shedding some fat for gosh sakes.

I started researching DNP about 13 years ago; anyone can check around the net and read about how many folks have died/experienced health issues from using DNP. The very nature of what DNP does, once in your body, would make it obvious to someone educated on the matter that DNP certainly can cause longterm damage

I find it ironic that someone used Acetaminophen as an example----Acetaminophen is the leading cause of acute liver failure in America; I believe over half those cases were reported to use "recommended dosages"
 
WTF do you know about me? WTF do you know about what is right or wrong for me?

Am i 20lbs lighter....yes
did i kick an addiction...yes
will your girlfriend smile at me in the grocery store...yes

Dr.S isnt an expert on DNP and he proved that himself.


Bro I could go on a rant here, but I'll just be brief and say that you're a douchebag... I can't think of much else to say to someone with this tag line-- "SAVE THE PLANET, KILL YOURSELF" --
 
it's not like we are discussing how DNP could cure cancer/diabetes/rheumatoid arthritis---then MAYBE it could be worth the risk...but we are talking about shedding some fat for gosh sakes.
For many physique enthusiasts, the risks (which you've demonstrated ignorance of) are worth the benefits. If they're not for you, that's fine.
I started researching DNP about 13 years ago; anyone can check around the net and read about how many folks have died/experienced health issues from using DNP.
Fatalities are actually much less common than most people believe. According to Horners extensive 1941 review, there were a total of three case reports of overdose. Not three thousand. Not three hundred. Three. Of an estimated 500,000 users, that's very rare. In 1937, Simkins conducted one of the most comprehensive clinical studies, in which he kept hundreds of patients on DNP for up to a year. In his final report (JAMA, Volume 108, #26), he stated that "One cannot refrain from remarking that, in view of the remarkably extensive use of the nitrophenols, often without medical supervision, fatalities are extremely rare."

Unfortunately, the mortality rate in recent times (among bodybuilders, for example) is probably higher. This is undoubtedly due to the careless and excessive dosages that are frequently seen as users try to push the envelope and maximize fat loss. It's an issue of dosing protocol, though there are also some reports of suicide and accidental exposure.

Fortunately, longer, lower-dose cycles are becoming more and more popular. With a little care and prudence, the risk of overdosing on DNP is negligible. The major risk is cataracts, estimated to occur between 1 in 100 and 1 in 1000 users, though it possibly occurs at an even lower incidence in males, in light of some evidence. For a huge number of people, using a SERM is worth the risk of cataracts. Unparalleled fat loss with DNP is worth that risk for many others.
 
Bro I could go on a rant here, but I'll just be brief and say that you're a douchebag... I can't think of much else to say to someone with this tag line-- "SAVE THE PLANET, KILL YOURSELF" --


LMFAO....if you want to go on a rant why dont you go on a rant backing up the BS that came out of your mouth about DNP. O wait, you chose to be a pretend DR...IM SO MUCH COOLER ONLINE!:rolleyes:

You have no idea who or what i am. "save the planet, kill yourself" Humans are the most invasive species that has ever had the chance to breath air on this planet.

You sir, with all your "brain damage" crap, are the douchebag...

Keep talking retard.......prove my point
 
The very nature of what DNP does, once in your body, would make it obvious to someone educated on the matter that DNP certainly can cause longterm damage
This statement evinces a great deal of ignorance about the research on DNP and its mechanism of action. As 2BIGSTILL said, "Dr.S isnt an expert on DNP and he proved that himself." You proved it earlier with the invented risks (that I called you out on) and you just proved it again asserting "obvious longterm damage." There are dozens of papers on DNP's beneficial effects, including decreasing the mitochondrial membrane potential, attenuating free radical production, reducing oxidative stress, limiting damage in models of injury, increasing lifespan, mimicking exercise and calorie restriction, etc.

Here are a few examples:

Novel neuroprotective, neuritogenic and anti-amyloidogenic properties of 2,4-dinitrophenol: the gentle face of Janus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16754295
This landmark paper obviously made an effort to change the widespread misperception that DNP is only dangerous and toxic. It points to protective effects in the brain, possible treatments for neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's, and extension of lifespan.

Mild mitochondrial uncoupling in mice affects energy metabolism, redox balance and longevity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18505478
In this study from last year they administered a low dose of DNP over the lifespan of mice. They found that treatment with DNP "enhanced tissue respiratory rates, improved serological glucose, triglyceride and insulin levels, decrease of reactive oxygen species levels and tissue DNA and protein oxidation, as well as reduced body weight. Importantly, 2,4-dinitrophenol-treated animals also presented enhanced longevity. Our results demonstrate that mild mitochondrial uncoupling is a highly effective in vivo antioxidant strategy." This study was the third time DNP has been shown to increase in lifespan, following this study and this study.

The mitochondrial uncoupler 2,4-dinitrophenol attenuates tissue damage and improves mitochondrial homeostasis following transient focal cerebral ischemia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16045446
This is one of many studies showing that DNP is protective in models where blood flow is interrupted (stroke, heart attack) and then restored. Usually there is a significant oxidative stress upon reperfusion, which DNP attenuates.

Regulation of human male germ cell death by modulators of ATP production.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16403780
This study shows that DNP prevents germ cell apoptosis (death). This is the same thing testosterone does. When apoptosis is accelerated, you can get fertility problems.

Energy requirement for degradation of tumor-associated protein p53.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6325878
p53 is a transcription factor recognized as having anti-cancer effects in cells. DNP has been shown to increase p53 expression. This has been shown both directly in this study and also via AMPK, which DNP is known to activate.

The mitochondrial uncoupling agent 2,4-dinitrophenol improves mitochondrial function, attenuates oxidative damage, and increases white matter sparing in the contused spinal cord.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15672630
This paper showed that pretreatment with DNP significantly reduced the damage from a bruising injury to the spinal cord. Again, this probably has to do with a reduction in oxidative stress.

Uncouple my heart: the benefits of inefficiency.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19365715
Mild uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation is one of the mechanisms suggested to be cardioprotective as chemical uncoupling mimics ischemic preconditioning. Uncoupling protein 2 is proposed to be the physiological counterpart of chemical uncouplers and is thought to be a part of the protective machinery of cardiomyocytes... We propose that low concentrations of dietary polyphenols may elicit the same cardioprotective effect as dinitrophenol...

Preventing NAD(+) depletion protects neurons against excitotoxicity: bioenergetic effects of mild mitochondrial uncoupling and caloric restriction.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19076449
"Our findings suggest that mild mitochondrial uncoupling and caloric restriction exert hormetic effects by stimulating bioenergetics in neurons thereby increasing tolerance of neurons to metabolic stress [e.g. excitotoxicity]."

This are literally dozens of papers like this. Educate yourself. Don't make baseless and foolish statements that "it's obvious to someone educated on the matter that DNP certainly can cause longterm damage." No, it's only obvious to an intellectual coward such as yourself, who invents dangers like "brain, heart, and lung damage" without a modicum of evidence. That's truly pathetic.
 
LMFAO....if you want to go on a rant why dont you go on a rant backing up the BS that came out of your mouth about DNP. O wait, you chose to be a pretend DR...IM SO MUCH COOLER ONLINE!:rolleyes:

You have no idea who or what i am. "save the planet, kill yourself" Humans are the most invasive species that has ever had the chance to breath air on this planet.

You sir, with all your "brain damage" crap, are the douchebag...

Keep talking retard.......prove my point

If your proving your point why do I get 3-4 pms a day from members telling me not to listen to either of you that your way off base and offer nothing to this community. You tried to, let me rephrase that you threatened me over the INTERNET and you talk about being cooler on line. Give us a break dude. You wanted me to post a pick and I did. All we know about you from this thread is your were fatter than you are now but its still debatable and you have a bad attitude probably from all the drinking. You talk shit to anyone who says its bad. Funny thing is your living up to your signature. Because sooner or later with all your addictions and drugs you'll be the one saving the planet. I told you to pm people when you want to talk trash and keep your non sense off the board.
 
I'm rather impartial when it comes to the whole name calling portion of this thread. However, I would like to see you, armageddon, as well as Dr. S post up something factual. It seems that concilator is coming hard and heavy with empircal proof and you all are responding with psuedo-intellectual heresay and "correlation must equal causation" type arguments.

Concilator: fact, fact, fact,

other guys: nuh uh!!!

Like I said guys, I'm rather impartial, but If you are really trying to "reach just one kid", well, you're going to have to have more to offer than "the wisdom will come to you as you age, you'll see".
 
I appreciate the kind words Mace. I know I can't reach some of the guys on this thread, but hopefully some kid reading this thread will realize that using DNP to lose fat is a horrible idea. Com'on, we're talking about FAT BURNING! it's not like we are discussing how DNP could cure cancer/diabetes/rheumatoid arthritis---then MAYBE it could be worth the risk...but we are talking about shedding some fat for gosh sakes.

I started researching DNP about 13 years ago; anyone can check around the net and read about how many folks have died/experienced health issues from using DNP. The very nature of what DNP does, once in your body, would make it obvious to someone educated on the matter that DNP certainly can cause longterm damage

I find it ironic that someone used Acetaminophen as an example----Acetaminophen is the leading cause of acute liver failure in America; I believe over half those cases were reported to use "recommended dosages"

Your argument is vacuous. You are begging the question, i.e. assuming to be true what you need to demonstrate to be true. What is in dispute is whether DNP is toxic at any dose. You are asserting -- only asserting without a scintilla of evidence -- that DNP use is unconditionally and without qualification a bad idea. You have yet to demonstrate this point, which is central to your position.

Yes people have died using DNP and many more have died from prescription drugs with a narrow therapeutic index. Perhaps the acetaminophen anaology wasn't appropriate and a better anaology could have been made using a drug with a therapeutic index similar to that of DNP. Nevertheless your position regarding DNP can only be characterised as a prejudice based entirely on emotion and justified merely with reference to your putative authority as a medical doctor. Do you have a similarly rancourous attitude towards all drugs with a TI < 50?

Also, you aren't actually offering a medical/scientific opinion you are doing nothing more than expressing your personal subjective preferences, dressing them up in drag and pushing them on to stage to fool the drunken audience. How you value fat loss has no significance to anyone else. Nor does your personal tolerance for risk have any significance to anyone other than your financial advisor and stock broker. What on earth could possibly privilege you to dictate someone's preference hierarchy?

Fat loss may have a significance to 2BIGSTILL which none of us can appreciate and his tolerance for risk may be much higher than yours. This can't be disputed because it is neither right nor wrong -- it just is. It is akin to someone's flavour preferences. You can't convince someone that vanilla is a better flavour than chocolate through argument and evidencce and you can't call on a "flavour expert" to make the final pronouncement on which flavour is better. You have to accept a person's subjective preferences and phenomenology as brute facts.
 
??? I started shooting tar cuz I needed to quit smoking ice too.... WTF does having self control not to drink a case a day have to do with taking any drug?

I agree with Dr.S. Maybe alot of you guys arent familiar with him but he is pretty well known in the community and I have read TONS of his shit and cant help but conclude he is an expert...

So we should all bow down to the infallible Dr S and accept everything he types as Gospel even when he can't substantiate his position with evidence or argument and even when he is doing nothing more than expressing his preferences (which we all can do)?

No thanks. I'm not going to put my brain in neutral just because someone is supposed to be an expert. If Dr S has medical expertise then it should be easy for him to dazzle us with compelling evidence for his claims regarding DNP and organ damage. Dr S is obviously privy to some secret journal which isn't indexed or abstracted by anyone.
 
i really don't need to come up with more evidence to help persuade some young gun that is not sure about it. whether it fits into the studies or not I know what happend to me and what I was and wasn't taking. You can make it sould however you want with the science lingo. But I know I took DNP and 10-12 minutes later i puked a nasty redish substance that sure looked like blood. Those are the facts and I've steered away from DNP ever since. Those are my facts, but your science says its not so. Science also says god isn't real but I have faith so there fore science doesn't completely rule my thought process. So since I have faith in my body knowing what is and isn't good for it I'm going to stick with it.

It was also already agreed upon that DNP is dangerous and not for everyone. So why still sit here and argue about it? You guys think one way and the rest of us think a different way. We shouldn't sit here and talk like its ok for some young 18,19, 20 yr old kid to take it cause its not. Some hard work, proper diet, and some swet will do more for them and teach them more about themselves then popping some pill and being lazy.
 
Fat loss may have a significance to 2BIGSTILL which none of us can appreciate and his tolerance for risk may be much higher than yours. This can't be disputed because it is neither right nor wrong -- it just is. It is akin to someone's flavour preferences. You can't convince someone that vanilla is a better flavour than chocolate through argument and evidencce and you can't call on a "flavour expert" to make the final pronouncement on which flavour is better. You have to accept a person's subjective preferences and phenomenology as brute facts.

Exactly and that's why like I've done for 10yrs now is give my situation and continue to do so. You may think that it doesn't mean much, but between all the pms and emails I've gotten from this thread alone I'm obviously reaching some people and that is all I set out to do.

Feel free to take DNP that's your choice, but my opinion says it could fuck you up. Not worth the risk to me.
 
Well there are bunch of studies that say DNP use is fairly safe with reasonable dosages and proper precaution. There are few studies that say its not safe. Everyone talks about cataracts as the main side effect with higher rates in women.

I hear people complain of stomach upset while on DNP and heartburn type feeling. I don’t know if this is coming from PH imbalances in GI or irritation of GI etc.

Anyways here is a study that supports the GI irritation problem idea.





Phenol Toxicity and Conjugation in Human Colonic Epithelial Cells

Authors: G. Pedersen; J. Brynskov; T. Saermark
DOI: 10.1080/003655202753387392
Publication Frequency: 12 issues per year
Published in: Scandinavian Journal of Gastroenterology, Volume 37, Issue 1 January 2002 , pages 74 - 79
Subjects: Gastroenterology; Gastrointestinal & Abdominal Surgery;
Number of References: 20
Formats available: PDF (English)
Article Requests: Order Reprints : Request Permissions


Abstract
Background: Colonic epithelial cells are exposed to a range of potentially harmful luminal factors, including phenols, but it is unresolved whether these compounds impair the integrity of the epithelium. The aim of this study was to describe the effect of phenol exposure on human colonic epithelial cells in vitro and the conjugation pathways involved in detoxification. Methods: Primary human colonic epithelial cell cultures or HT-29 cell cultures were exposed to paracetamol, dinitrophenol or phenol (0.1-5 mM) for 24 h. Cell viability was measured using the methyltetrazoleum test. Phenol conjugation products released from cell cultures were identified by high-pressure liquid chromatography. Phenol glucuronidase (PGD) and sulphotransferase (PST) enzyme activities were measured in isolated cell homogenates. Results: Paracetamol, dinitrophenol and phenol ( ≥1.25 mM) significantly impaired the viability of primary colonic epithelial cell cultures. No differences between cell cultures from ulcerative colitis and control patients were observed. Paracetamol (5 mM) also induced significant cell damage in HT-29 cells. Glucuronidation was the preferred conjugation pathway in both cell models, despite the presence of PGD and PST activity. Conclusion: Phenols have a direct toxic effect on human colonic epithelial cells in vitro, which supports the view that dietary fermentation metabolites may be involved in the modulation of chronic bowel inflammation.
Keywords: Inflammatory Bowel Disease; Crohn Disease; Paracetamol; Phenol Glucuronidation; Phenol Sulphation; Ulcerative Colitis
 
DNP is a dangerous game, so is insulin and T3. How any of you think you are smarter than a Doctor, who has a backround in it, is beyond me. Con, I believe you are very knowledgeable and know what you are talking about, however there are young kids on this forum that read your posts. To make it sound like the reward benefit is worth the risks, invites tradegy. Too many people lack the common sense in these areas. Maybe, you should have put a severe warning on it, then promoting it? Too many people are looking for the easy way out! Curious, why did you get banned from BB,com? Didn't they like your philosophy? 2Bigstill, you are a grown man, to call out someone over the internet is childish and we don't need that here. I am sure you are above that. Some people can take DNP and not get any problems, but there is some who will die from it, let us use some common sense, when we post.
 

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