Frustrated

BuffD · Sep 17, 2006

Vander_V said:
Ok dude on far left has a decent build still not what Id want outta a physique but decent.

guy in the middles calves are as big as his head hes got great legs but not conditioned, his back is AWEFUL lol did u see his back lat spread hahaha pathetic and his upper looks nothing like a good match for his lower but hell still get 1st lol.

other 2 guys look somewhat average nothing to special and that Pulcinella guys gut is enormous.

everyone up there except the guy i the middle has an extented gut.

Sam you look to dark in my opinion and your midsection looks wider/exteneded like some of those fellas.

BuffD your arms and chest lack and i think thats what stuck out the most even overpoewering your condition, also Sams right you do need more size as well i agree with him on that. also your MM needs work.

In my Opinion Sam should get 3rd if he gets 4th or 5th its BS.

AS for BuffD Id say 7th would have been fair , I do beleive Mark Ep guy looked a tad better in my opinion and could have placed 5th but i think Mark will get 7th cause that black dude in your fleet Buffd was tuff as well hes maybe got as lock on 6th .

Well thats of course only my opinion.

I agree on some points but Mark Ep was too soft. Conditioning should come first in my opinion. I agree I need more size especially in my arms and chest but they are not that far behind to where my shape and conditioning shouldn't have mattered more. But nonetheless it is what it is and that's how the judges saw it. More people seem to agree with me then them so that makes me feel better. I will be on stage again next year and I will be better. ALOT better. We got the conditioning thing down so it's just a matter of building. I still say though that I have no clue what the judges saw in Dave P. That was a true travesty awarded that physique plain and simple. So it's about time for me to relax and then get back in there and hammer things so when I get in front of the judges next time they won't have any choice but to place me ALOT higher. Thanks for everyones support.

BuffD · Sep 17, 2006

Oh and I placed 6th. Results are on Graphic Muscle. Mark E took 8th. Dave P took 5th. I'll keep shaking my head on that one though.

b-boy · Sep 17, 2006

hey buff why in the hell did curtis bryant place so low???? shit i thought he was huge and conditioning was pretty damn good and had the best back in the heavyweight class IMO.

b-boy · Sep 17, 2006

dont get down bro!

man thats why i get so damn scared before i get on stage! not that i don't feel good about my physique but im scared i won't get a fair look! you looked your best bro, and thats all that you can ask from yourself, its a subjective sport and people are going to see things diff. I thought your conditioning was spot on but you were a little outsized! but shit you know your weakness's better than us! You truly did bring your best package to date bro, so you gotta be proud of that!

JETHRO TULL · Sep 17, 2006

Rarely trains those calves! Thanks for posting that Eatbig....

Eatbig2getbig said:
I know Erik very well. We trained at the same gym for a-while and I competed against him 2 years ago. This kid is a class act...just an all around good guy!
He signed a contract with Animal last year and he's on his way. This was his first national show. His calves actually measure 23"...and that's no joke. First calves that I've seen that rival Mattarazo's. This is the tough to swallow part...he rarely trains them. He had to actually stop because they were getting to big and throwing off the rest of his physique.
He still needs to work on bringing up his chest and back, but definitely a freak and one to watch coming up.

Because people need to read that.............most guys are just NOT going to ever, ever, have 23 inch calves! No matter how much shit they take or how hard they train calves. My mom has frickin' huge calves and she has arthritis. The only thing she does is walk out to the garden and pick a head of lettuce once in a while. lol....

b-boy · Sep 17, 2006

darrin i don't see the womens results anywhere! how did anne do???

rAJJIN · Sep 17, 2006

BuffD said:
Oh and I placed 6th. Results are on Graphic Muscle. Mark E took 8th. Dave P took 5th. I'll keep shaking my head on that one though.

Good Job BuffD! You looked incredable man and 6th at a show like that
is damn good imo. Ive never understood the judging and exactly what there looking for either. Biceps have to match the calves and neck etc etc
I think it should be the best man that day wins..which to me is the Biggest best conditioned guy with no weak parts..(Not saying they should measure the exact same..Just not Weak). You did great, Both of ya.
anyone Know what SamZ ended up placing?

Vander_V · Sep 17, 2006

BuffD said:
Oh and I placed 6th. Results are on Graphic Muscle. Mark E took 8th. Dave P took 5th. I'll keep shaking my head on that one though.

Yea i had Mark at 7th and that Dave Pulc deserved that 8th slot IMO, It was either a 6th or 7 for you I think they did a good job judging IMO, you are very conditioned and have a solid overall physique but your arms and chest stick out to be weaker points that are noticiable.

My guess for Sam would be 3rd or at worst 4th.

You both looked great and did very well up against some decent competitors.

Iabadman · Sep 17, 2006

First of all , my hats is off to Sam Zona and BuffD.......Great show for both of you fellas and I honestly had Sam second BuffD as high as third or 4th ........I felt you two had the best conditioning in your class and maybe the whole show ........I would also like to thank Magnum a great deal ,as I sent him to work with my good friend Grigori Attoyan the last few days and he brought him in for the show the last 10 days [ Greg was behind after placing 4th in the USA's he basically hardly trained or dieted until about three weeks out ....he was behind ....and I knew Magnum would be the man to help him ]
I am confused with some of the comments about my friend Greg as well as his placing to be honest........Greg does not have gut period .......he was not 4 weeks out ........and honestly ,look at the all the pics conpared to the other guys [ some guys have better body parts , but dont have the balance ] ......tell me he doesn't have the best overall package in that show ? He had the least weaknesses by far , best structure overall in his class , and was in shape ....not quite hard and sepparated as D and Sam .......but his overall package is better IMO ......The guy that won had a great back, but was lacking too many other things and was in the same condition as Greg [ which was very good .....full .....but not freaky sepparated or grainy as D and Sam ] I am sorry guys, but I feel that Greg won this show on best overall package and I think Magnum will agree with me about this .........And for the overall .......Leo Ingeram is one think dude for sure and I am glad to see him get his pro card , but he was not in shape .......I thought Ben White had him in the Supers and I thought Greg could have beat them both that night .
I know Greg is my friend , and Magnum is someone that I have respected for a long time . So maybe I am biased . But I know the sport .......I have been around many pros and top guys for many years ......I know what a winner should look like [ he should have the best overall balance and conditioning combined ...........not just freaky conditioning or great individual parts ......but the overall sum of everything ......] IMO that was Gregs show but oh well .......I know that Greg will get his pro card soon and with magnum in his corner it will be sooner than later.... Greg wasn't upset and thought there was lots of tough guys in his class....... he said he had no idea what was going on or how he matched up to the other guys ......said the judging call call outs seemed strange and didnt have any idea what to expect.......Said he chated with Sam and said he looked great and was a cool guy .[ said Sam seemed frustraighted ....... but he was is over it and doesn't get upset anymore after placing 2nd to Caprice Murry, he storming off stage and hurt himself politically quite abit . He has learned his lesson and doesn't get mad over stuff he can't control......he said the competition was tough ......thought Magnum did a great job for him .....and will take a few days to figure out what is next for him and magnum] Once again , Sam and D ......great job fellas ......you guys were awesome yesterday ......I hope you aren't offended by my opinions what so ever..... I just felt I could share my thoughts here as I am alittle frustraighted........I have been with Greg since he started training , I used to be the big guy he looked up to .....lol......I just want him to finally get his just due........Also Sammy and D ......what you guys think about the guy that won your class being a training partner of the promoter of the show ? Greg likes Gary [ he placed greg first at the last USA ....lol] and didn't seem to care , but I thought it was alittle stange .........what do you think ?

pumpputnam · Sep 17, 2006

Good job...

Sam and BuffD. You guys looked great. You can't control anything but yourself and you know that going into it! Always stay positive and your attitude is what makes you guys winners!

littlemack · Sep 17, 2006

Outstanding results to both Sam and D! I'm definitely impressed! Nothing to be frustrated over at all. This looked like a really good class and I've heard Ohio is a tough show with lots of great competitors.
I'm not going to take anything away from you guys. You really both looked great and I hope you don't get so frustrated that you just quit, b/c that would be a real shame. Just keep chipping away at it BuffD. You've gotta be patient. The discipline is definitely there. Just keep staying positive. I know this isn't what either of these guys want to hear right now, but...
One of the best things a coach ever said to me was to forget about winning or losing. Just go out there and work on improving your game. The results will follow. Right now you both should be proud of how far you have come. Way to go! I'm looking forward to your future successes!

SZona · Sep 18, 2006

Iabadman said:
First of all , my hats is off to Sam Zona and BuffD.......Great show for both of you fellas and I honestly had Sam second BuffD as high as third or 4th ........I felt you two had the best conditioning in your class and maybe the whole show ........I would also like to thank Magnum a great deal ,as I sent him to work with my good friend Grigori Attoyan the last few days and he brought him in for the show the last 10 days [ Greg was behind after placing 4th in the USA's he basically hardly trained or dieted until about three weeks out ....he was behind ....and I knew Magnum would be the man to help him ]
I am confused with some of the comments about my friend Greg as well as his placing to be honest........Greg does not have gut period .......he was not 4 weeks out ........and honestly ,look at the all the pics conpared to the other guys [ some guys have better body parts , but dont have the balance ] ......tell me he doesn't have the best overall package in that show ? He had the least weaknesses by far , best structure overall in his class , and was in shape ....not quite hard and sepparated as D and Sam .......but his overall package is better IMO ......The guy that won had a great back, but was lacking too many other things and was in the same condition as Greg [ which was very good .....full .....but not freaky sepparated or grainy as D and Sam ] I am sorry guys, but I feel that Greg won this show on best overall package and I think Magnum will agree with me about this .........And for the overall .......Leo Ingeram is one think dude for sure and I am glad to see him get his pro card , but he was not in shape .......I thought Ben White had him in the Supers and I thought Greg could have beat them both that night .
I know Greg is my friend , and Magnum is someone that I have respected for a long time . So maybe I am biased . But I know the sport .......I have been around many pros and top guys for many years ......I know what a winner should look like [ he should have the best overall balance and conditioning combined ...........not just freaky conditioning or great individual parts ......but the overall sum of everything ......] IMO that was Gregs show but oh well .......I know that Greg will get his pro card soon and with magnum in his corner it will be sooner than later.... Greg wasn't upset and thought there was lots of tough guys in his class....... he said he had no idea what was going on or how he matched up to the other guys ......said the judging call call outs seemed strange and didnt have any idea what to expect.......Said he chated with Sam and said he looked great and was a cool guy .[ said Sam seemed frustraighted ....... but he was is over it and doesn't get upset anymore after placing 2nd to Caprice Murry, he storming off stage and hurt himself politically quite abit . He has learned his lesson and doesn't get mad over stuff he can't control......he said the competition was tough ......thought Magnum did a great job for him .....and will take a few days to figure out what is next for him and magnum] Once again , Sam and D ......great job fellas ......you guys were awesome yesterday ......I hope you aren't offended by my opinions what so ever..... I just felt I could share my thoughts here as I am alittle frustraighted........I have been with Greg since he started training , I used to be the big guy he looked up to .....lol......I just want him to finally get his just due........Also Sammy and D ......what you guys think about the guy that won your class being a training partner of the promoter of the show ? Greg likes Gary [ he placed greg first at the last USA ....lol] and didn't seem to care , but I thought it was alittle stange .........what do you think ?

I tell you what....I have no problem placing behind Greg he does have a more complete physique then me absolutely. I have seen him harder but he and I have been exchanging places show to show for quite a few years now. Beyond that, I like him as a person....seems like a real good dude. I was frustrated yesterday, but I am over it. I am not one to dwell on negativity or let anyone beat me mentally. I have been through alot worse things than losing a bodybuilding show that is for sure. For me as a personal preference I always have leaned toward the harder guys in shows....you know they put in that extra effort and sacrifice and I have always felt this should be recognized. Iabadman, I really wish you would have introduced yourself would have like to have met you. Dont feel you have to sugar coat things for me....constructive criticism, accepting it and what you do with it is a big part of finding success in a sport such as this. I am a very hard critic of myself actually. I know what I need to work on more than anyone.

Kirk Defrancesco was the kid that won our class....what I find most interesting is that he was slated to compete in the PDI show this past weekend. I guess loyalty means nothing.... Very strange.

Again....hats off to Buff D and Greg....two top notch guys in my book.

SZ

Iabadman · Sep 18, 2006

Class response from a class guy Sam ..........I wasn't at the show myself .......the opinions I shared were from pics and talking to people I trust that were there in person ,as things always aren't what they seem in pics [ note I heard both you and Greg looked much better in person than in the pics......while Buff D looked just sick in alot of his pics] If I had been there, I would have introduced myself to you and your Family in a minute . In fact , I probably would been trying to take the whole lot of you to dinner or something .[ I feel like I know them from this board .......how is your son's football season going so far ? Is he still playing fb / lb ? And how is the wife and crazy dog doing ? I hope well ....] You looked better than when you won this show in the past and you should be proud of what you presented.........you are a blue collor bber IMO ......my kind of guy .......not overly gifted ......but smart .....hard working .....and consistant ........for you it will just be a war of patientence......your physique has class and maturity .......if you keep showing up and throwing your hat into the mix, your day will come ......mark my words [ in fact if you need some backing I would be willing to help you ] .......like I said , I had you in second to Greg , as did the others I talked to .And I we had Buff D in third or 4th .[ he was in great shape .....awesome leg shape ....grainy ....good back ..just needs about 5 - 10 pounds to fill and hang with the guys like you and Greg] And the conditioning thing ......I agree , but the best bber should win .......if in reasonable conditioning compared to all the other guys ......They did this last night apparently when choosing Leo , and they do it alot in shows like the Mr O , but the are never consistant in the judging period .........I don't understand why it is so hard to be consistant ........I really don't ......I mean my God , I have atttended shows with girls that knew nothing about bbing and they always pick the winners out each time [ at least the guys that should have won ] If it is all about condition , then fine , just don't have guys like Ronnie winning every year or Leo winning last night ......it is just not fair to you guys that are busting your asses and taking alot of risks in the process......I understand your frustriation totally .......I just hope both you and D realize that you both were winners last night . Better than ever .....you beat your previous bests for sure .....both should be proud .....and if the show was just about conditioning then it would have been you first , D second .........you both kicked ass plain and simple .......nice work

BuffD · Sep 18, 2006

Hey man I'm cool. I agree that Greg probably did have the best overall package in the class. I think if he was darker (the lighting was terrible) he would of looked harder. I just know I've seen him harder and even you said he hardly dieted till 3 weeks out. He could have won. My biggest issue is with placing behind Dave P. Because quite honestly that is not the physique that the judges are suppose to be rewarding at all. I'm happy with 6th at my first Pro Qualifier and I'm really anxious to get back to work on adding the extra size that I need. Sam it was great meeting you and I look forward to stepping on stage with you again in the future. Hang in there bro your time is near. I appreciate all the comments and critiques as I do look at everyones point of view and then evaluate myself based on them. I'll be hitting it hard and hoping to do even better at the 07 USA's. It all starts again.

LATS · Sep 18, 2006

buff.. you should be proud bro.. i thought , judging by the pics, that you should have been up a few places.. but, i am bias for the promuscle guys

.. you had a awesome package and looked great.. next timebro.. next time..

SZona · Sep 18, 2006

Iabadman said:
Class response from a class guy Sam ..........I wasn't at the show myself .......the opinions I shared were from pics and talking to people I trust that were there in person ,as things always aren't what they seem in pics [ note I heard both you and Greg looked much better in person than in the pics......while Buff D looked just sick in alot of his pics] If I had been there, I would have introduced myself to you and your Family in a minute . In fact , I probably would been trying to take the whole lot of you to dinner or something .[ I feel like I know them from this board .......how is your son's football season going so far ? Is he still playing fb / lb ? And how is the wife and crazy dog doing ? I hope well ....] You looked better than when you won this show in the past and you should be proud of what you presented.........you are a blue collor bber IMO ......my kind of guy .......not overly gifted ......but smart .....hard working .....and consistant ........for you it will just be a war of patientence......your physique has class and maturity .......if you keep showing up and throwing your hat into the mix, your day will come ......mark my words [ in fact if you need some backing I would be willing to help you ] .......like I said , I had you in second to Greg , as did the others I talked to .And I we had Buff D in third or 4th .[ he was in great shape .....awesome leg shape ....grainy ....good back ..just needs about 5 - 10 pounds to fill and hang with the guys like you and Greg] And the conditioning thing ......I agree , but the best bber should win .......if in reasonable conditioning compared to all the other guys ......They did this last night apparently when choosing Leo , and they do it alot in shows like the Mr O , but the are never consistant in the judging period .........I don't understand why it is so hard to be consistant ........I really don't ......I mean my God , I have atttended shows with girls that knew nothing about bbing and they always pick the winners out each time [ at least the guys that should have won ] If it is all about condition , then fine , just don't have guys like Ronnie winning every year or Leo winning last night ......it is just not fair to you guys that are busting your asses and taking alot of risks in the process......I understand your frustriation totally .......I just hope both you and D realize that you both were winners last night . Better than ever .....you beat your previous bests for sure .....both should be proud .....and if the show was just about conditioning then it would have been you first , D second .........you both kicked ass plain and simple .......nice work

Bro....my family is great. My son is playing ball...but they have been moving him around alot. Linebacker/Defensive End/Fullback/Guard....the coaches like him because he is versatile and they know he wont complain and will work hard no matter where they put him. He plays every down both sides of the ball, special teams etc. He really wanted to play fullback this year but they stuck him on the line. I told him to hang in there and just make sure when given the opportunity to take full advantage of it. This thursday he got his chance.....first carry 25 yards dragging 3 defenders, 2nd carry....touchdown. Made my week....still smiling about that. He turns 16 tomorrow....very hard for me to believe. I truly have been blessed in the family department. Thanks for asking!

SZ

TooPowerful4u · Sep 18, 2006

Im sorry but Buff D has one of my favorite physiques in the class...especially from the back. I will agree Atoyan had the best package in the show and definatly beats out Ingram. How pulcinella placed ahead of Darin il never know. Dont care for the class winners physique either. Maybe it was different in person, but as far as pictures it looks like condition was rewarded above superior structure,development and balance.