Game Changers Netflix movie

[NEMSZ]

A Doctor has already come out and said Layne's 'rebuttal' is not worth the piece of paper it is written on. Reports funded by egg & dairy, his PHD advisor funded by National Cattlemans Association etc etc

Just passing on what I read, dont shoot the messenger

Who is this doctor? You’re just posting regurgitated judgements instead of going over the information yourself, Layne is a PH.D himself with B.S in Biochemistry and PH.D in Nutritional Science, he has worked with hundreds if not thousands of athletes and some of them are Vegan.. He states all of this in his article and says he doesn’t have a problem with Vegan dieting just the bullshit in the film, you seem really attached and childish about your little movie.. He also states that some of HIS STUDIES that he was involved in were funded by the companies you posted above but the 63 studies he posted are all referenced and peer reviewed. You should take the time to go read it instead of criticizing because “some doctor on the internet” said otherwise with zero references or studies....

The China Study aka the largest study ever on the topic pretty much proves this theory, that eating animal based proteins is worse for your body than plant based proteins. I don’t think this is up for discussion.

Would I ever go vegan? No, probably not
Did I watch the gamechangers? Yeah for 30 minutes then turned it off like the rest of us.
Do I think there’s a motive or money behind the movie to change or brainwash the general population? Sure I do
Do I still think there’s truth to the matter? Yes, definitely

Just like with anything, the truth lies somewhere in-between. But I’m not naive enough to think all things being equal, eating red meat is just as healthy as eating a salad/beans/quinoa. Sorry don’t buy it.

If your goal is longevity a 100% plant based diet would be the most optimal diet all thighs being considered. But damn does a tomahawk steak from Costco sound amazing right now

But did you read the article and studies Layne posted? If you didn’t then your point is the same and you’re just going by “hear-say”.. They could’ve done the largest study in the world and its useless if it wasn’t controlled as they did the one posted in the article...

Just like the studies from back in the days about meat being unhealthy, A LOT of the subject were unhealthy, ate processed foods, drank alcohol and smoked cigarettes yet the only correlation they talked about in the studies was that they ate meat... This is a documented fact about how those studies happened and were funded by conflict of interest companies as well...

 

[NEMSZ]

Yeah but the director of the movie, James Cameron, investing a boat load of money into a vegan protein company (pea protein IIRC) makes the whole movie so much more credible if you check who backs the studies they use for the material in the movie you might also be surprised who is funding those studies.

Live and let live, anyone can decide for themselves. I would never ever go vegan, however I won‘t ever insult anyone else doing so. For me the most important thing is that the other side sees it that way too. If you are vegan, that‘s totally fine by me no matter what your reasons are - but I‘ll keep eating my meat and there‘s no reason to be insulting or condescending. Just my two cents.

That’s another point Layne talks about, the GIANT conflict of interest.. He NEVER talks shit about the vegan diet or says anything negative about it and even agrees with some points in his article as saying you can create anabolism and be a top level athlete and be Vegan. He just dissects the inaccuracies and omissions of the FILM.. Nothing more and nothing less..

 

[MR. BMJ]

There is such a thing for both sides to co-exist. Some of the health concerns that occur to meat eaters are a result of the lack of fruits and vegetables in their diets. On the contrary, if you want to be vegan for whatever reason, fine, but if you think you can not be healthy eating lean animal proteins in addition to a balanced diet with fruits and vegetables, you are quite blind.

I really dislike extreme eating patterns in any fashion.....for 95% of people out there, you do not have to resort to cutting out entire groups of foods to live and be healthy. For example, cutting out lean animal proteins or foods, veganism, carnivore diets, and even keto diets for the most part are unnecessary for the majority of people out there, unless there is some kind of medical or religious reasoning.

I'd make exceptions for bodybuilding purposes during a contest prep, but this is a very minority group of people, and is not reflective for the rest of the year for most of them, nor most of the population.

I sure hope nobody actually resorts to the China Study as any form of evidence.

I have friends who are vegan, and we are able to co-exist without any arguments whatsoever....who gives a shit really. As long as preaching isn't involved, it works fine.

However, false information needs to be called out, on any side of any debate. I don't really care about people making money off of selling vegan products, just like I don't to those who are in favor of animal products, as long as the information they provide is correct and honest. People have a choice to go whatever direction they want as a consumer, and what fits them best.

Also, I have a lot of respect for Layne. He may be a dick at times, but correct information is correct information. You can't throw empty stones and use the whole appeal to authority fallacy as a means of proving what he has written as wrong. If he is wrong, show your intelligence by providing information to support your side of the argument. Saying crap like "I am an authoritarian, a doctor, a researcher, a PhD" is a cop-out, and it's the same shit that we see when people can't support their side with contextual evidence. If Layne is wrong, and these other people are so smart, then it should be easy for them to prove his stance wrong.

 

[Fit2Serve]

crazy how people get so emotionally tied to a diet. In my opinion being overly emotional is a sign of weakness. I have noticed this based on my interactions with co-workers in a stressful environment. The most emotional ones are always the weak link and create excess work/difficulty for me and other employees that less emotional people do not create.

as a business owner this is sooooooooooooooo true! as soon as i notice someone over emotional i make a mental note and they are always the problem causers. always.
-F

 

[BillyBlanco]

Cam Newton went vegan and doesn’t even have the same body structure anymore. He should eat what got and kept him successful. That being said, what somebody needs to eat to be an elite competitor in a physically demanding sport is different than what we should eat for health and longevity. Some vegan bodybuilders look good. Some don’t even have the right color skin tone and you can see something is wrong. Being vegan would be good for me since I’m over 40 and I probably shouldn’t beat the shit out of my body anymore either. I say eat for your goals, whatever they are at that time. I love meat. I love the smell and taste. That being said I do have to eat way less meat for my kidneys and overall health and should probably go vegan at some point in the future. Baby steps. Red lentils have a lot of protein. Arnold stronger now than before, sure. So is Cam Newton LOL

 

[TheOtherOne55]

The China Study aka the largest study ever on the topic pretty much proves this theory, that eating animal based proteins is worse for your body than plant based proteins. I don’t think this is up for discussion.

there are MASSIVE critiques/holes in the China Study that several scientists have pointed out. So that example is a bad one dude.

 

[Mr OZ]

Yeah but the director of the movie, James Cameron, investing a boat load of money into a vegan protein company (pea protein IIRC) makes the whole movie so much more credible if you check who backs the studies they use for the material in the movie you might also be surprised who is funding those studies.

Live and let live, anyone can decide for themselves. I would never ever go vegan, however I won‘t ever insult anyone else doing so. For me the most important thing is that the other side sees it that way too. If you are vegan, that‘s totally fine by me no matter what your reasons are - but I‘ll keep eating my meat and there‘s no reason to be insulting or condescending. Just my two cents.

James Cameron is worth 800-900 million. He has made his money, his pea protein is not going to make a ridiculously rich man richer. Its laughable that people think that is his motive.

When your worth that much, do you not think at some point in time you start to think about the legacy you want to leave behind?

 

[Mr OZ]

Who is this doctor? You’re just posting regurgitated judgements instead of going over the information yourself, Layne is a PH.D himself with B.S in Biochemistry and PH.D in Nutritional Science, he has worked with hundreds if not thousands of athletes and some of them are Vegan.. He states all of this in his article and says he doesn’t have a problem with Vegan dieting just the bullshit in the film, you seem really attached and childish about your little movie.. He also states that some of HIS STUDIES that he was involved in were funded by the companies you posted above but the 63 studies he posted are all referenced and peer reviewed. You should take the time to go read it instead of criticizing because “some doctor on the internet” said otherwise with zero references or studies....

I am not at all attached to the movie, to be honest people should want to stop eating meat because its fucking cruel and its fucking up the planet, not because it 'may' make you run faster. At what stage did it become so normal that our everyday lives inflict such cruelty onto defenseless beings.

Drop the agro mate, I have said from the very first post I dont come on here to argue.

 

[NEMSZ]

James Cameron is worth 800-900 million. He has made his money, his pea protein is not going to make a ridiculously rich man richer. Its laughable that people think that is his motive.

When your worth that much, do you not think at some point in time you start to think about the legacy you want to leave behind?

That logic is ridiculous and laughable.. Yea because $900 million is where people stop... You don’t acquire $900 million because you’re satisfied, look at every single billionaire/entrepreneur etc... Did $900 million stop Jeff Bezos? Nope.. Did $10 billion? Nope.. $100 Billion? Nope.. Ok ok, $150 Billion? Nope... He’s already surpassed that as well...

You do realize that even the global stock market is talking about the wave of vegan companies coming on the market and investment opportunities etc? It’s huge... Lebron James couldn’t build a better legacy in a fantasy world, he’s worth billions, best basketball player that ever lived (arguably), has helped tons of people through donations etc and has done philanthropy work etc... Guess what he’s invested in?? Yup... Vegan companies...

Either way, seems like you don’t want to even be open minded to conversation.. You’re like a little kid being told Santa isn’t real too early...

Is being Vegan healthy? Yes.. Does it help the environment? Yes.. Can you be an elite athlete? Yes... Is it the ONLY WAY TO BE HEALTHY? NOOOO... CAN YOU BE JUST AS HEALTHY EATING ANIMAL PROTEINS FROM NATURAL SOURCES? Yeeeessssss!!

This is 100% proven by CONTROLLED AND PUBLISHED studies... There are studies on either end that are funded by “conflicts of interest” but there are quite a few that aren’t so why pick at the negative? Even if you want to go with a worldwide anecdotal evidence, the top countries right now for life span, lowest heart disease and lowest rates of cancer as well as highest population of active 100+ year olds are Okinawa, Spain and Italy.. My family is from Spain/Italy and I can tell you my great grand parents that lived to their late 90’s weren’t Vegans and they were still working and doing things they enjoyed up until they passed away walking around town etc, they ate meat and animal proteins and cheeses and LOTS OF WINE but also lots of veggies and fruits and salads too..

Also, hunting in many ways (not trophy hunting) helps the environment and conservation efforts.. You should look up the science behind it, even if you don’t want to do it yourself and don’t eat meat...

But damn dude, you literally don’t want to see facts because it’s not in line with your narrative.. No one is telling you not to be Vegan or that you’re wrong, YOU are the one telling/implying people that any other way is bullshit and impossible and wrong etc when you have nothing to back up your claims, absolutely zero...

 

[NEMSZ]

I am not at all attached to the movie, to be honest people should want to stop eating meat because its fucking cruel and its fucking up the planet, not because it 'may' make you run faster. At what stage did it become so normal that our everyday lives inflict such cruelty onto defenseless beings.

Drop the agro mate, I have said from the very first post I dont come on here to argue.

I agree with the cruelty of factory farming... It’s horrible and I don’t support it...

Now if someone wants to hunt their wild game meat or fish and kill humanely (yes a bullet/arrow to the head is A LOT more humane than being eaten by wolves or lions bro) then there’s nothing wrong with that either...

At what stage? Well bro, maybe you missed this in human history but we’ve been hunter/gatherers for over 200,000 years...

Again, if it’s not something you want to do, then cool bro, but why do you care if someone else does? They’re not doing anything wrong.. Just because you’re a human, have thumbs and a slightly more advanced brain working behind a desk doesn’t mean we aren’t animals.. There’s animals that are herbivores, carnivores and both (omnivores) and throughout history we didn’t have the luxury to choose until the recently and readily available different forms of food we don’t have to farm or hunt ourselves.. You choose herbivore? Cool bro.. I choose Omnivore in as ethical a way as possible with no suffering to any animals..

 

[qbkilla]

Cam Newton went vegan and doesn’t even have the same body structure anymore. He should eat what got and kept him successful. That being said, what somebody needs to eat to be an elite competitor in a physically demanding sport is different than what we should eat for health and longevity. Some vegan bodybuilders look good. Some don’t even have the right color skin tone and you can see something is wrong. Being vegan would be good for me since I’m over 40 and I probably shouldn’t beat the shit out of my body anymore either. I say eat for your goals, whatever they are at that time. I love meat. I love the smell and taste. That being said I do have to eat way less meat for my kidneys and overall health and should probably go vegan at some point in the future. Baby steps. Red lentils have a lot of protein. Arnold stronger now than before, sure. So is Cam Newton LOL

Cam newton is an example he looks like a girl now. Kaepernick too but Kaepernick has bigger mental issues than his little vegan diet.

Do any elite athletes that play physical sports and succeed actually eat like this?

 

[Mr OZ]

I agree with the cruelty of factory farming... It’s horrible and I don’t support it...

Now if someone wants to hunt their wild game meat or fish and kill humanely (yes a bullet/arrow to the head is A LOT more humane than being eaten by wolves or lions bro) then there’s nothing wrong with that either...

At what stage? Well bro, maybe you missed this in human history but we’ve been hunter/gatherers for over 200,000 years...

Again, if it’s not something you want to do, then cool bro, but why do you care if someone else does? They’re not doing anything wrong.. Just because you’re a human, have thumbs and a slightly more advanced brain working behind a desk doesn’t mean we aren’t animals.. There’s animals that are herbivores, carnivores and both (omnivores) and throughout history we didn’t have the luxury to choose until the recently and readily available different forms of food we don’t have to farm or hunt ourselves.. You choose herbivore? Cool bro.. I choose Omnivore in as ethical a way as possible with no suffering to any animals..

Your other post is just rambling and putting words in my mouth, please calm down as your getting to worked up.

I wanted to reply to this one though as your just not getting it (as lots of people do, as did I a few years ago)

Firstly, there is no such thing as a humane way to kill something that does not want to die.

Humane - having or showing compassion or benevolence

Where does getting a bullet or arrow to the head fall under this description? the answer is that it doesnt. To say you can kill something humanely is only to make yourself feel better. So yes 'bro' there is everything wrong with that, despite what you trying to convince yourself otherwise.

You are also justifying something because it was done for a long time? So if you do something long enough that makes it OK? Was it OK to rape and pillage as we also did that for a long time? what about enslaving people, because we also did that for a long time.

Stop thinking about yourself for a moment, perhaps you will start to understand a bit better.

 

[NEMSZ]

Your other post is just rambling and putting words in my mouth, please calm down as your getting to worked up.

I wanted to reply to this one though as your just not getting it (as lots of people do, as did I a few years ago)

Firstly, there is no such thing as a humane way to kill something that does not want to die.

Humane - having or showing compassion or benevolence

Where does getting a bullet or arrow to the head fall under this description? the answer is that it doesnt. To say you can kill something humanely is only to make yourself feel better. So yes 'bro' there is everything wrong with that, despite what you trying to convince yourself otherwise.

You are also justifying something because it was done for a long time? So if you do something long enough that makes it OK? Was it OK to rape and pillage as we also did that for a long time? what about enslaving people, because we also did that for a long time.

Stop thinking about yourself for a moment, perhaps you will start to understand a bit better.

Nothing wants to die but it’s life... It’s nature.. Period.. We are part of nature.. You expect a lion not to kill you and eat you just because you won’t eat the lion? Good luck with that.. Going by your judgement we should just separate all the animals in the world so they don’t kill/eat each other (because they don’t want to die) and make them eat vegetables too... Again, just because you work behind a desk and have thumbs doesn’t mean you’re any better than any other animal.. An elk is food to me and YES killing it humanely is killing it quickly while it knows nothing about it, it feels nothing. It’s not even aware of its own mortality...

Can animals suffer? Absolutely, but I highly doubt they’re developed enough to know they’re going to die one day, they just know to eat and procreate and avoid certain predators..

Would you rather an animal die quickly with no suffering and know that it’s meat fed a family or would you rather that animal get ripped apart by wolves or fall and break a leg and die slowly to the elements? There is no other option in nature.. Name ONE SINGLE OPTION in nature where an animal dies happily without suffering... Go, I’ll wait... If you can I’ll shut up and say you’re right...

And as to your other arguments you’re talking about a way to feed yourself and live and basically a way of life as all humans for hundreds of thousands of years VS causing other people suffering and pain in the quest for territory and power.. One has nothing to do with the other...

No one is talking about causing an animal suffering and pain, simply killing it and eating it with no suffering...

Going by that if your family dog was sick with cancer and in pain would you euthanize it or let it suffer and die on its own in your living room because it doesn’t want to die? You’d make sure it ends quickly and painlessly I would hope and THAT IS HUMANE...

 

[Mr OZ]

Going by that if your family dog was sick with cancer and in pain would you euthanize it or let it suffer and die on its own in your living room because it doesn’t want to die? You’d make sure it ends quickly and painlessly I would hope and THAT IS HUMANE...

based on your logic you would shoot it with an arrow, you know, the humane way to kill something.

You still dont get it dude, your moral compass is way off

 

[NEMSZ]

based on your logic you would shoot it with an arrow, you know, the humane way to kill something.

You still dont get it dude, your moral compass is way off

Trust me, if an elk was nice enough to let me grab it and inject it with euthanasia and it just goes to sleep and dies painlessly and quickly I would... But unfortunately they’re not so friendly... So the next step is a rifle or an arrow where they literally die before they even hear the gunshot or they don’t even hear the arrows it just goes black and that’s it..

My moral compass is off because I eat meat.. Lmao

Ok let me see what you say to this;

Plants are LIVING THINGS and yes they feel pain and they can suffer.. This is documented facts..

So killing an animal that is living and doesn’t want to die, even though quickly and painlessly is morally wrong but ripping apart a plant that is also living and doesn’t want to die and making it suffer/feel pain is perfectly ok?

Edit: there are many arguments (by Vegans) that a plant can’t feel pain because it doesn’t have a central nervous system which makes no sense because they can react to stimuli and stress and even have defense mechanisms for stress and disease so they don’t die... But I’ll bite on that one and give it to you...

Let’s just talk about the plant being a living thing that doesn’t want to die... So how is that ok?

Keep in mind the elk being hunted and shot doesn’t feel pain, just like the plant “doesnt”, it’s just a living thing that doesn’t want to die too..

 

[Mr OZ]

Trust me, if an elk was nice enough to let me grab it and inject it with euthanasia and it just goes to sleep and dies painlessly and quickly I would... But unfortunately they’re not so friendly... So the next step is a rifle or an arrow where they literally die before they even hear the gunshot or they don’t even hear the arrows it just goes black and that’s it..

My moral compass is off because I eat meat.. Lmao

Ok let me see what you say to this;

Plants are LIVING THINGS and yes they feel pain and they can suffer.. This is documented facts..

So killing an animal that is living and doesn’t want to die, even though quickly and painlessly is morally wrong but ripping apart a plant that is also living and doesn’t want to die and making it suffer/feel pain is perfectly ok?

Edit: there are many arguments (by Vegans) that a plant can’t feel pain because it doesn’t have a central nervous system which makes no sense because they can react to stimuli and stress and even have defense mechanisms for stress and disease so they don’t die... But I’ll bite on that one and give it to you...

Let’s just talk about the plant being a living thing that doesn’t want to die... So how is that ok?

Keep in mind the elk being hunted and shot doesn’t feel pain, just like the plant “doesnt”, it’s just a living thing that doesn’t want to die too..

1. But you dont have to eat the elk to survive

2. Plants are living things, but they are not sentient. Glad you made that edit

I am not going to debate shooting an elk to eating a plant. Thats just silly

Nothing but love mate, hope your having a good day.

 

[qbkilla]

Am I the only person that actually gets a kick out of watching how these threads develop, watching one person argue the morals agains eating a steak, and another for? I actually find it very entertaining in a childish middle school way.

 

[bananas007]

i watched the movie yesterday as I am staying with a friend and she was watching it. Almost anytime when someone makes a point so in favour of one thing its usually far from the truth. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

there were a couple "studies" in that movie that did spark my interested though. The erection study, and then centrifuged blood "study".
The dusky looking thing in serum you see after meat , are triglycerides. They are the reason why doctors make us fast before a lipid panel blood draw.

If thats true, that after eating a non animal based diet, even if high in fat, does not cause that triglyceride rise in serum, I do wonder if it has some long term benefits. I would also like to compare that to after eating eggs, or after eating whey/ casein.

I get almost all my protein from animals and my cholestrol is not fucked up at all. infact almost low. LDL was 62 on my last check. HDL 47. Trigs 80. (I dont do any AAS).


I also have a questoin about the phytoestrogen mentioned in the movie. Is it true? is soy now not as bad as it was made to be two years ago when there was all this soy and estrogen scare.

 

[NEMSZ]

i watched the movie yesterday as I am staying with a friend and she was watching it. Almost anytime when someone makes a point so in favour of one thing its usually far from the truth. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

there were a couple "studies" in that movie that did spark my interested though. The erection study, and then centrifuged blood "study".
The dusky looking thing in serum you see after meat , are triglycerides. They are the reason why doctors make us fast before a lipid panel blood draw.

If thats true, that after eating a non animal based diet, even if high in fat, does not cause that triglyceride rise in serum, I do wonder if it has some long term benefits. I would also like to compare that to after eating eggs, or after eating whey/ casein.

I get almost all my protein from animals and my cholestrol is not fucked up at all. infact almost low. LDL was 62 on my last check. HDL 47. Trigs 80. (I dont do any AAS).


I also have a questoin about the phytoestrogen mentioned in the movie. Is it true? is soy now not as bad as it was made to be two years ago when there was all this soy and estrogen scare.

Not only did DR. Layne Norton debunk a lot of this documentary and sited 63 different studies on how a lot of what they say is misinformation but also Chris Kresser was on JRE Podcast and he debunked it even more with more studies and more details...

BTW, the cloudy blood plasma after a animal fat meal is because of the chlyomicrons in higher fat meals, which animal protein meals usually contain more of, nothing to do with negatively affecting health..

I urge anyone to really listen to the podcast as they go basically detail by detail on everything the documentary did with either omission of information or plain misinformation and false claims... Which can be looked up on published, peer reviewed studies on basic nutrition and animal studies etc that are provided by Chris Kresser in the Podcast and Layne Norton in his article...

Just about the only thing this propaganda/agenda driven documentary got correct is that it’s healthier to eat fruits and vegetables or plant based than it is to eat Popeyes and processed foods...

Fun Fact: James Cameron who produced the film invested $140 million into his plant based/vegan company.. I’m sure he just did that out of the goodness of his heart though with zero agenda and expectations of a huge return on his money...

 

[b-boy]

I don't give two fucks who eats what, me personally I love meat and plants. None of my business how everyone else chooses to eat. Live and Love YOUR LIFE!