Genetic Limit How Fast can you reach it? Elite Examples Inside.

[Massive G]

Every time I see these photos of Jay Cutler @21 -22 I just freak out because he was able to bulid a physique like this below in 4-5 years. I remember thinking "Damn!"

Now Jay was 250 or so in these pics below. Look at him a decade later how many tons of weight has he lifted, how many days has he trained, how many hours of cardio has he done, how many meals has he eaten, and how many supplements has he used including the super ones? and look at his physique now.

With out mincing words here-while I don't think the PROS are "all drugs" I do think they are at the top of the ergogenic chain for the most part and have been "been there done that" with cycles and GH and slin-let's just say advanced users-but they aren't doing anything different than you or I for the most part when we were "kicking it" to get to the top.

So Jay will probably step on stage at 265-270 this year and does he look that much better really if you look at him? This isn't a flame I am trying to convey the gains, that he made look minimal at least with the effort combined.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86gm6USQrA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSanaWJtr78&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKk6pK_XcFA


Kevin Levrone was another guy with elite genetics, I grew up in MD so everyone knew who Kevin was, I was at my peak of interest in BB'ing at that time 91 on and we used to drive up to the old Powerhouse gym on the weekends from the Beach (OC) and try to catch Kevin training. Kevin had most of his size in a freakin year after he won the 1990 MD states he went from the low 200's ripped to the high 230's ripped at the 1991 Jr Nationals where he took second to Paul Demayo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlP_Kms7aQs
and then destroyed EVERYONE at the 1991 Nationals. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd5DKykp3H4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqBgR97gYxE

He then went on to win the 1992 NOC and almost take the Olympia in 1992.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzpulSb92M0

Now that's elite genetics. Talk about a monster in the gym!!

He routinely ground out set after set after set of 600 lb benches, 600 lb deads and 700 lb squats 200 plus pound BB curls 400 lb shoulder presses etc etc etc. Just crazy to see him train.

Paul DeMayo was another one that reached his limit very quickly IMO look at this CAT at 19!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtG1twxaMFI

1991 Nationals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gji7YIMrRb4&mode=related&search=

Now do you guys think the guys with elite genetics reach pretty much close to thier mass potential quicker or am I imagining things???

And yes I do think there is a limit and people reach that and try and go past it and it goes to the -how we say-belly? Err I mean waist line.
Kevin was kinda the exception as he didn't like to bulk or stay bulked long after shows.

Here's the Jay Pics that still shock me today when he was 22.

 

[rAJJIN]

Makes you think doesnt it....another good example is the Ruhl Pics you posted
in the other thread.

 

[james001]

Wow - cutler looked phenomenal at 22.. I think a couple years on juice with a solid diet will show you your potential.

 

[maldorf]

the longer I have been in bodybuilder the more I am starting to think that genetics are the biggest factor in reaching this kind of physique. Many people out there that have been bodybuilding for 20 yrs + and work out just as hard, eat just as well, and use just as much AAS as Jay and dont even come close to how he looked when he was 22 yrs old. We all know the guy on the football team that lifts weight maybe 3 times a week and lives off candybars, has bodyfat below 10% with 19+ inch arms and can bench 315 10 or more times as a freshman in college. The college I went to had a running back like that. Any time I saw him he had veins poping out everywhere and looked like he could step on stage with maybe 2 weeks diet. He had a great physique and didnt even train or eat right. On parent's weekend his dad came to visit and he had huge guns that were over 20 inches easy and just as lean.

 

[Massive G]

Look at these quads...at 22
goddamn.

 

[Massive G]

About 3 weeks ago or so-

 

[Massive G]

And my point to this post is, for the guy with good or average genetics thinking he is going to get to the next level by:
changing his diet
changing his drugs
changing his training

Yes all those things above will help one gain, but if you haven't built some serious mass in your first few years of training and juicing it's not coming out of a bottle.

I see guys on the net switch around like a top spinning on a table all the time, different diets cycles and training systems and looking for that secret formula that doesn't exist.

I am telling you guys from experience here-straight from the hip for what ever it's worth.

 

[Massive G]

Look at Phil Heath in his first show after a mere few years of training- IF THAT.

 

[LATS]

i have said it numerous times along with a few others.. genetics are everything.. that is why these guys who spout off on various boards with "all drugs" comments dont realzie that no matter how many cc's one pumps into his body, if he does not have the genes for this sport, you will not get there.. we have all seen the guy who barely trains, eats like crap, and takes 500 of test a week and looks awesome.. we have also seen the guy who does everything right, take boatloads of gear and and never misses a meal and 5 years later he still does not have it to win a state title or place in the top 5..
as i have said before. the true genetic freak knows he is the first time he picks a up a barbell.. and the first time he shoots 200 of deca and grows like a weed.. it does not take years to figure out.. so the crowd that spouts off with "all drugs" should take heed in knowing that they truly dont know crap .. you have it or ya dont.. you can always look better than 99% of the people out there but, when ya look at the gains made by guys like cutler, levrone, ronnie, ya figure out just how average ya are..

 

[Massive G]

the longer I have been in bodybuilder the more I am starting to think that genetics are the biggest factor in reaching this kind of physique. Many people out there that have been bodybuilding for 20 yrs + and work out just as hard, eat just as well, and use just as much AAS as Jay and dont even come close to how he looked when he was 22 yrs old. We all know the guy on the football team that lifts weight maybe 3 times a week and lives off candybars, has bodyfat below 10% with 19+ inch arms and can bench 315 10 or more times as a freshman in college. The college I went to had a running back like that. Any time I saw him he had veins poping out everywhere and looked like he could step on stage with maybe 2 weeks diet. He had a great physique and didnt even train or eat right. On parent's weekend his dad came to visit and he had huge guns that were over 20 inches easy and just as lean.

Watch some of these guys train too, no disrespect but have you seen Phil Heath train?
Sort choppy partial reps super fast.
Hell the rest of us are training stricter and full extensions and contractions and some of these guys do everything wrong in the gym and grow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM_x3QBcE0A

 

[goonstopher]

I could not agree more unfortunetly. I've done cycles I am not proud of for longer than I ever should have. Have tried every training regiment ect and am not doing a new dieting plan. Genetics are the matrix which decide the impact of all your other activities. Some have to fight for every pound others are meant to be large. Even worse than genetics to be small is genetics to get hurt... ah whatever just annoyed at yet another injury.

Another great post by massive g

 

[speedbacker]

Great Post, Massive G, couldn't be more dead on.

 

[joeshow5]

I know I don't have the genetics for bodybuilding, but that is not going to stop me, and shouldn't stop others (as long as their not looking to drugs for the answer)!! I can still make MY body the best ti can be. I can continue to improve and intend to. I will compete reguardless and continue to be a lifestyle bodybuilder. Its better than riding around on thos "lazy carts" at walmart and hating the way I feel. I don't think people should give up, reguardless of genetics. Just live the clean life and have fun.

 

[terryd5150]

I think you took it the wrong way....

I know I don't have the genetics for bodybuilding, but that is not going to stop me, and shouldn't stop others (as long as their not looking to drugs for the answer)!! I can still make MY body the best ti can be. I can continue to improve and intend to. I will compete reguardless and continue to be a lifestyle bodybuilder. Its better than riding around on thos "lazy carts" at walmart and hating the way I feel. I don't think people should give up, reguardless of genetics. Just live the clean life and have fun.

Massive's point (I think) was that you can tell if you "have what it takes" to be a competitive BBer after the first couple of years. After that point nothing, like drug "X", is going to do it for you and that a lot of people just need to face reality about that and stop thinking "I just need to add another GRAM of TREN a week and I'll be set".

However, we can ALL look and feel better by hitting the gym and having the proper diet and, like you said, be the best "us" we can be.

 

[Massive G]

thanks Terry, yes those were basically my points.
I am not here to kill anyone's dreams and not telling people to not pursue them.

 

[KillerStack]

I've always said that the genetics for pro bodybuilding are obvious almost instantly once one starts training and supplementing. It really is an almost overnight thing.

That's why it's so ridiculous when some less gifted newbies ask pros for advice and the pros tell them to just be patient and how it will take years and years to build the size they carry. "Be patient, it will take 10 years to build this kind of size" LOL. No, it comes very very quick if you have the genes, almost "overnight."

 

[JasonWojo]

Really puts things in perspective.

 

[profitness]

Threads like this really are depressing, LOL

Cause they really make such a legitimate point about genetic potential and limitations. They take away the wishfull thinking. I am a mini freak in my gym, and its the most I will ever be able to accomplish cause I have tried it all. I have improved alot over the last 4 years but its in the details. Range bound, and no matter how hard I try I always revert back at some point to that menacing range. After 15 years of training off and on its quite obvious to me that I have great genentics but not the elite ones necessary to be a top level bodybuilder. I am 5'10'' 215 and always lean and vieny, cant even get fat when i run insulin in the presence of fats, but can deflate faster than a popped balloon. Arms are 19 for the last 2 years but are a better looking 19 than 2 years ago, but still 19. Sometimes I actually believe I got it figured out and go gung ho on my new theories then 4 weeks later i weigh in at the same fukin 215!!! Yes, you can improve like the pros do year after year, but the bulk of your action happens in the first 5 years of training with juice, after that its usually just detail improvements imo. Unless you are Ronnie coleman and the likes who can add 50 lbs over 5 years after reaching 250lbs after 10 years of training while enhanced.

 

[KillerStack]

It almost looks like Jay's outer quads have lost size. He doesn't have the sweep he used to have at 22.

 

[joeshow5]

Massive's point (I think) was that you can tell if you "have what it takes" to be a competitive BBer after the first couple of years. After that point nothing, like drug "X", is going to do it for you and that a lot of people just need to face reality about that and stop thinking "I need to add another GRAM of TREN a week and I'll be set".

However, we can ALL look and feel better by hitting the gym and having the proper diet and, like you said, be the best "us" we can be.

so your saying if I take another gram of tren a week I will do better?....

I'm just kidding, I do understand what your saying. I know a guy who does everything wrong and looks great. Its insane how he looks and he has no clue as to how to properly train, eat, or even cycle.

Damn him and his genetics!!!!!!