Gh and heart failure

[mekanikal]

Hello, I'm 54 years old and took a 10 year break from aas and gh but recently started hrt, 250 mg test E weekly. I have a weak heart, an EF as low 10% 10 years ago but on beta blockers, entresto, and jardiance sitting at 40% now. My doctors are not friendly with the idea of hrt or gH therapy. My question being. Has anyone had experience or knowledge of low dose gh effects on cardiomyopathy and ejection fraction/heart failure? In the past I've used 3-6 units of gH daily with good results.

 

[sciroxx-lab]

Given your cardiac history and current medications, you’re right to approach GH with extra caution — but I would still seriously consider it, as it may provide valuable benefits if done properly.


There’s some clinical evidence that is actually suggesting that growth hormone deficiency in heart failure patients can worsen cardiac remodeling, and that low-dose HGH therapy may improve cardiac output in deficient individuals, it's interesting .... but this is not your case I assume


That said, if you and your cardiology team decide to proceed, I’d strongly suggest:

1. Keep the Dose Conservative​

• Start at 2–3 IU per day, split into two injections (AM and PM) to avoid large spikes in IGF-1 and glucose.
• Splitting helps minimize fluid retention and insulin resistance, both of which can put extra stress on the heart.

2. Monitor Closely with Your Doctors​

• Echocardiogram & EF: Get a baseline before starting and recheck every few months.
• BNP/NT-proBNP: Biomarkers for cardiac strain — rising levels could signal worsening heart function.
• IGF-1 Levels: Stay within the upper-middle of the reference range, not above.
• Fasting glucose/HbA1c: GH can impair insulin sensitivity, especially if you’ve used higher doses before.

3. Watch for Warning Signs​

• Increased edema (ankles, abdomen)
• Rapid weight gain (fluid retention)
• Shortness of breath worsening
• Palpitations or unusual heart rhythm changes

4. Consider Timing with Your Medications​

• Since you’re on beta blockers, Entresto, and Jardiance, discuss with your cardiologist whether GH’s potential fluid retention, but generally with 2 iu or slightly more I don't expect much of a problem

​

Bottom line:
Low-dose GH (2–3 IU split) may be tolerable and may even offer some long term benefits, but keep frequent monitoring.


Check out this on the proven anti-aging potential of HGH [HGH and anti aging]
Check this as well on hoe to optimize HGH usage [HGH Optimal Usage Guide]

 

[mekanikal]

Given your cardiac history and current medications, you’re right to approach GH with extra caution — but I would still seriously consider it, as it may provide valuable benefits if done properly.


There’s some clinical evidence that is actually suggesting that growth hormone deficiency in heart failure patients can worsen cardiac remodeling, and that low-dose HGH therapy may improve cardiac output in deficient individuals, it's interesting .... but this is not your case I assume


That said, if you and your cardiology team decide to proceed, I’d strongly suggest:

1. Keep the Dose Conservative​

• Start at 2–3 IU per day, split into two injections (AM and PM) to avoid large spikes in IGF-1 and glucose.
• Splitting helps minimize fluid retention and insulin resistance, both of which can put extra stress on the heart.

2. Monitor Closely with Your Doctors​

• Echocardiogram & EF: Get a baseline before starting and recheck every few months.
• BNP/NT-proBNP: Biomarkers for cardiac strain — rising levels could signal worsening heart function.
• IGF-1 Levels: Stay within the upper-middle of the reference range, not above.
• Fasting glucose/HbA1c: GH can impair insulin sensitivity, especially if you’ve used higher doses before.

3. Watch for Warning Signs​

• Increased edema (ankles, abdomen)
• Rapid weight gain (fluid retention)
• Shortness of breath worsening
• Palpitations or unusual heart rhythm changes

4. Consider Timing with Your Medications​

• Since you’re on beta blockers, Entresto, and Jardiance, discuss with your cardiologist whether GH’s potential fluid retention, but generally with 2 iu or slightly more I don't expect much of a problem

​

Bottom line:
Low-dose GH (2–3 IU split) may be tolerable and may even offer some long term benefits, but keep frequent monitoring.


Check out this on the proven anti-aging potential of HGH [HGH and anti aging]
Check this as well on hoe to optimize HGH usage [HGH Optimal Usage Guide]

Thanks for the detailed response, all these points make sense. echo/TTE and hba1c are covered. I hadn't thought of watching bnp, igf-1 levels, I'll add those in the mix with hrt labs. I know the hrt test E places me at risk to flash/rapid edema onset but wasn't aware that the gh might contribute to fluid shifts/gain.

 

[TODouble2]

im in the same boat as you, my EF was 20-25... now im 50-55... .. i tried added GH back in around 2-3iu and may have noticed a little increase in resting heart rate, so i stopped... although i wasn't wearing a HR monitor,, i just took notice when i was measuring my BP at home. after my next echo, if all is good i may give it another go but wear my fitbit before and after for awhile to really asses if there was a rise in heart rate.

 

[mekanikal]

im in the same boat as you, my EF was 20-25... now im 50-55... .. i tried added GH back in around 2-3iu and may have noticed a little increase in resting heart rate, so i stopped... although i wasn't wearing a HR monitor,, i just took notice when i was measuring my BP at home. after my next echo, if all is good i may give it another go but wear my fitbit before and after for awhile to really asses if there was a rise in heart rate.

The older I get, I see the goal posts change and one thing I have learned is that I love to lift, even with limitations. I wish you well in your journey.

 

[JAG]

Regardless of your decision look into cardiogen peptide used for years overseas for cardiomyocyte repair, and myocardial tissue recovery.

 

[TODouble2]

The older I get, I see the goal posts change and one thing I have learned is that I love to lift, even with limitations. I wish you well in your journey.

same to you brother.. its a tough pill to swallow... between health issues and injuries/pain, im so limited in what i can do..


question for you... did you get side effects from heart failure, and if so did they remain after your recovery? like i said my EF is 50-55, but my legs are still so weak, i get and fatigue and if i do something excessive like play a sport id be so out of breath its ridiculous. i also feel like im just weaker overall, not just leg weakness. i feel like my heart is artificially propped up by the meds since i still have side effects.

 

[TODouble2]

Regardless of your decision look into cardiogen peptide used for years overseas for cardiomyocyte repair, and myocardial tissue recovery.

my heart is basically normal size now, you think it still has benefits for someone with heart failure with improved EF?

 

[JAG]

Not sure but been used in Russia for years.

"Research on Cardiogen presents an interesting scientific case, with extensive documentation in Eastern European literature but limited representation in Western medical databases. Studies from the Institute of Bioregulation and Gerontology in St. Petersburg have demonstrated Cardiogen’s ability to regulate gene expression in cardiac tissue, potentially normalizing production of proteins involved in energy metabolism, cellular structure, and protection against oxidative damage. Animal models have shown favorable effects on cardiac function parameters following administration, including improved contractility and enhanced recovery after ischemic events. Clinical observations from Russian and Eastern European medical practice suggest potential benefits for maintaining cardiovascular function with age and supporting recovery following cardiac stress. While these observations must be interpreted cautiously given differences in research methodology and documentation standards between Eastern and Western medical systems, the consistent pattern of findings across multiple decades suggests meaningful biological activity deserving of further investigation. The mechanism of tissue-specific gene regulation represents a fascinating area of potential development in peptide science. While not evaluated through the FDA approval process, Cardiogen has been used in clinical practice in Russia since the 1990s with a documented safety profile showing minimal to no adverse effects in standard doses. This unique regulatory mechanism at the gene expression level differentiates Cardiogen from conventional cardiovascular interventions and highlights a complementary approach to heart health."

 

[j2048b]

Not sure but been used in Russia for years.

"Research on Cardiogen presents an interesting scientific case, with extensive documentation in Eastern European literature but limited representation in Western medical databases. Studies from the Institute of Bioregulation and Gerontology in St. Petersburg have demonstrated Cardiogen’s ability to regulate gene expression in cardiac tissue, potentially normalizing production of proteins involved in energy metabolism, cellular structure, and protection against oxidative damage. Animal models have shown favorable effects on cardiac function parameters following administration, including improved contractility and enhanced recovery after ischemic events. Clinical observations from Russian and Eastern European medical practice suggest potential benefits for maintaining cardiovascular function with age and supporting recovery following cardiac stress. While these observations must be interpreted cautiously given differences in research methodology and documentation standards between Eastern and Western medical systems, the consistent pattern of findings across multiple decades suggests meaningful biological activity deserving of further investigation. The mechanism of tissue-specific gene regulation represents a fascinating area of potential development in peptide science. While not evaluated through the FDA approval process, Cardiogen has been used in clinical practice in Russia since the 1990s with a documented safety profile showing minimal to no adverse effects in standard doses. This unique regulatory mechanism at the gene expression level differentiates Cardiogen from conventional cardiovascular interventions and highlights a complementary approach to heart health."

Suxks that there are a ton of great uses for items but the usa doesnt add them to the tool shed…

 

[mekanikal]

same to you brother.. its a tough pill to swallow... between health issues and injuries/pain, im so limited in what i can do..


question for you... did you get side effects from heart failure, and if so did they remain after your recovery? like i said my EF is 50-55, but my legs are still so weak, i get and fatigue and if i do something excessive like play a sport id be so out of breath its ridiculous. i also feel like im just weaker overall, not just leg weakness. i feel like my heart is artificially propped up by the meds since i still have side effects.

My heart function is improved with daily medications. However, I fatigue quickly and don't have a huge reserve for cardio like I use to. Also, I am wary of too much weight gain as it worsens my symptoms; shortness of breath, fatigue, syncope. I feel better when I'm lighter, I'm not as strong as I was when I was younger, but I still feel better with low dose HRT than running natty.

 

[mekanikal]

Regardless of your decision look into cardiogen peptide used for years overseas for cardiomyocyte repair, and myocardial tissue recovery.

Interesting, do you know what dosages people are running?

 

[TODouble2]

My heart function is improved with daily medications. However, I fatigue quickly and don't have a huge reserve for cardio like I use to. Also, I am wary of too much weight gain as it worsens my symptoms; shortness of breath, fatigue, syncope. I feel better when I'm lighter, I'm not as strong as I was when I was younger, but I still feel better with low dose HRT than running natty.

same here. do you also feel that overall you're much weaker than you should be because of the heart failure? i feel like it affects more than just the legs.

 

[Dave Perez]

3 years ago my EF was 12%...I had a quadruple bypass and new mitral valve...now, at 66 my EF is 35...did any of you have bypass surgery?

 

[JAG]

Interesting, do you know what dosages people are running?

I am doing 1mg per day for 25 days

 

[Care1]

To the OP: why are you on such a high dose trt? My first cycle was 1 Organon redi-ject sustanon 250 a week back in 1993 and I gained 20 lbs in 6 weeks when I quit bc the knots in my ass.
To me that's not trt and me with a history of 1 DVT/blood clot, somewhat high cholesterol and BP there aint no F'n way im taking 250mgs a week! Now i got my BP down and my cholesterol to only slightly elevated without medication but since I started TRT back bc my test was 451 I think which is too low to just use some supplement that frees up more test: so I started the 12.5mgs a day Test e and 3 Humanofort a day. I also started 5mg rosuvastatin and 5mg amlodipine for BP. My results are in the last 3 weeks I gained 5 lbs overall and lost some fat and I had to take a week off due ro being sick. But im back at it so my weight may continue to go up or I may stay the same and my body comp just change. I have noticed zero side effects other than the good ones: normal wood(not excessive), gains and leaning. My body changed and whereas before I wasnt maintaining gains very well i am now and it shows. Im 55, 6' legit and 239 lbs at about 14% rn down from more. My goal is 235 at 10% but I will be happy, as a happily married father of 4, with 235+ at 12%. I just like feeling like me not like I wanna fuck or fight the world bc I'm a role model trying to exemplify- including health and balance in spiritual, mental and physical health and all of life. Which is what im offering here to any old guys that can use what I soberly say. I do see that many like the dopamine raise of more aas but when I was at 451 test I was still joyful and enjoying life and working out, hitting my punching bags and old bag! Hahaha So idk man you already got heart problems and taking what used to be a low dose cycle and calling it TRT doesn't seem like a good idea. Maybe Im wrong and it takes that much to get you to a nice hralthy level. For me I like being around 700 before when I took 100mgs a week of test & cheated sometimes and took 125 but then my test came back at 1200 so I quit trt for 6 Mos. That's why I was 451 last test and I wanted to find the healthiest way to do it. Thanks to Emeric informing that the free test ration to total test ratio was higher on 10mgs a day and even though the total T wouldn't be that high that the free test was at a higher ratio so it made up for it. It seems that's my experience. I won't know what my total test is til next test but I do know I have zero sides, Im getting stronger and bigger. I probably dont even need this 5mg BP med bc sometimes I think it sends me too low tbh. I just feel normal, happy and strong. I did try 12.5mgs a day before without humanofort and I think my test was like 650ish and my goal is 700ish.
So im not saying all this to talk about myself but to share the example that I know most intimately that I could elaborate or answer questions on and that I know is sober minded not dependent minded bc like I said I was happy and joyful at 451 test. I like this better but I dont need it to be OK mentally or physically capable. I enjoy being fit, capable and strong bc I always have been. So it feels normal me. I think if my test level was 1000+ I would try to fuck everything or fight it bc I was a pro boxer way back and my pimp hand be gettin twitchy. Hahaha At this range I can be a much better husband, father, human and be healthy and just studly for an old 55 year old fuck that has an arthritic right shoulder that needs a partial replacement and a healing torn meniscus from sprinting and Boxing footwork .
So if I said anything useful or not: use it or dont. If any old guys want to ask me anything feel free. If you want to insult me: idgaf its the internet haha And Im aware where Im at but at some point us older guys gotta trade a lil ego for a lil health and longevity bro. And I would never take aas & ancilleries advice from a 30 year old bc they probably dont know or care that Nolvadex can cause blood clots for example so as we age our information has to go deeper as our veins and arteries lose elasticity and we are more prone to cardiovascular problems and other things our aging bodies have to consider.
I hope I said something useful for other older guys.

 

[hghfreak87]

Nebivolol and mass dosing ubiquinol can help reverse it some what

 

[xman78]

same to you brother.. its a tough pill to swallow... between health issues and injuries/pain, im so limited in what i can do..


question for you... did you get side effects from heart failure, and if so did they remain after your recovery? like i said my EF is 50-55, but my legs are still so weak, i get and fatigue and if i do something excessive like play a sport id be so out of breath its ridiculous. i also feel like im just weaker overall, not just leg weakness. i feel like my heart is artificially propped up by the meds since i still have side effects.

Daily dosage
1.5 g of acetyl carnitine, 200 mg of ubiquinol, 3 g of arginine and you'll see that you won't get tired anymore

 

[mekanikal]

To the OP: why are you on such a high dose trt? My first cycle was 1 Organon redi-ject sustanon 250 a week back in 1993 and I gained 20 lbs in 6 weeks when I quit bc the knots in my ass.
To me that's not trt and me with a history of 1 DVT/blood clot, somewhat high cholesterol and BP there aint no F'n way im taking 250mgs a week! Now i got my BP down and my cholesterol to only slightly elevated without medication but since I started TRT back bc my test was 451 I think which is too low to just use some supplement that frees up more test: so I started the 12.5mgs a day Test e and 3 Humanofort a day. I also started 5mg rosuvastatin and 5mg amlodipine for BP. My results are in the last 3 weeks I gained 5 lbs overall and lost some fat and I had to take a week off due ro being sick. But im back at it so my weight may continue to go up or I may stay the same and my body comp just change. I have noticed zero side effects other than the good ones: normal wood(not excessive), gains and leaning. My body changed and whereas before I wasnt maintaining gains very well i am now and it shows. Im 55, 6' legit and 239 lbs at about 14% rn down from more. My goal is 235 at 10% but I will be happy, as a happily married father of 4, with 235+ at 12%. I just like feeling like me not like I wanna fuck or fight the world bc I'm a role model trying to exemplify- including health and balance in spiritual, mental and physical health and all of life. Which is what im offering here to any old guys that can use what I soberly say. I do see that many like the dopamine raise of more aas but when I was at 451 test I was still joyful and enjoying life and working out, hitting my punching bags and old bag! Hahaha So idk man you already got heart problems and taking what used to be a low dose cycle and calling it TRT doesn't seem like a good idea. Maybe Im wrong and it takes that much to get you to a nice hralthy level. For me I like being around 700 before when I took 100mgs a week of test & cheated sometimes and took 125 but then my test came back at 1200 so I quit trt for 6 Mos. That's why I was 451 last test and I wanted to find the healthiest way to do it. Thanks to Emeric informing that the free test ration to total test ratio was higher on 10mgs a day and even though the total T wouldn't be that high that the free test was at a higher ratio so it made up for it. It seems that's my experience. I won't know what my total test is til next test but I do know I have zero sides, Im getting stronger and bigger. I probably dont even need this 5mg BP med bc sometimes I think it sends me too low tbh. I just feel normal, happy and strong. I did try 12.5mgs a day before without humanofort and I think my test was like 650ish and my goal is 700ish.
So im not saying all this to talk about myself but to share the example that I know most intimately that I could elaborate or answer questions on and that I know is sober minded not dependent minded bc like I said I was happy and joyful at 451 test. I like this better but I dont need it to be OK mentally or physically capable. I enjoy being fit, capable and strong bc I always have been. So it feels normal me. I think if my test level was 1000+ I would try to fuck everything or fight it bc I was a pro boxer way back and my pimp hand be gettin twitchy. Hahaha At this range I can be a much better husband, father, human and be healthy and just studly for an old 55 year old fuck that has an arthritic right shoulder that needs a partial replacement and a healing torn meniscus from sprinting and Boxing footwork .
So if I said anything useful or not: use it or dont. If any old guys want to ask me anything feel free. If you want to insult me: idgaf its the internet haha And Im aware where Im at but at some point us older guys gotta trade a lil ego for a lil health and longevity bro. And I would never take aas & ancilleries advice from a 30 year old bc they probably dont know or care that Nolvadex can cause blood clots for example so as we age our information has to go deeper as our veins and arteries lose elasticity and we are more prone to cardiovascular problems and other things our aging bodies have to consider.
I hope I said something useful for other older guys.

Care1, thanks for the response. You make some great points. I took a long break from aas following some rough injuries and health changes and am now new to trt. I started on the higher end and am walking the dosage back slowly. I've had a lot of time to think about what's important to me in life and what gives me happiness, it's not the same for everyone. But I feel the best I've felt in years. I have energy, a libido, and it hurts a lot less at the beginning and end of the day, my family tells me I'm easier to spend time with as well. I will check in on my blood work consistently and walk back my dose as much as I can. Cheers

 

[TODouble2]

Daily dosage
1.5 g of acetyl carnitine, 200 mg of ubiquinol, 3 g of arginine and you'll see that you won't get tired anymore

im already on 400mg ubiquinol and ive taken a handful of other supps. i'll give the others a try.

i took these, i may be forgetting some..
400-600 ubiquinol
2g taurine
10g d ribose
arjuna - i forget the dose, i took the himalaya brand at the recommended dose
magnesium taurate
TMG
TB500