GH Antibodies: Fact or Fiction? My Experience

[muscle96ss]

For a while now people have been mentioning that you need to take time off GH because you will develop antibodies to it and while your serum tests may be showing that you are injecting real GH, your IGF levels may not. I believe it was LEX who mentioned in another thread that he was going to be doing some bloodwork soon and encouraged others to do so as well. So that is what I did. Well I have been on GH off and on for probably over 20 years but have been constantly on for roughly 10 years. Over those years I have done bloodwork with IGF levels on numerous occasions while on Serostim and Thanktropin(as well as when off). At 4IU's per day my IGF levels have always come back in the low to mid 400's. I switched over from Thanktropin to Rips last december and today got the results of my first bloodwork since starting the Rips. My IGF-1 levels on 4IU per day came back at 421. I would think that if I was developing antibodies to it then my IGF levels would be a lot lower than that. Just wanted to relate my experince as I still don't quite understand the science behind the antibody theory and based on my extensive history with GH my body hasn't shown any signs of this happening. Maybe it is specific to some individuals such as allergys, I don't know.

 

[muscle96ss]

I also forgot to mention my wife had bloodwork done last April and her IGF-1 levels were 142. Shortly thereafter she started taking GH and has been on 2-3iu per day for a little over a year now on primarily Thanktropin(had a couple months of Novotropin mixed in). Her blood work this past week came back with her IGF-1 levels at 417. Definitely not developing antibodies with those numbers.

 

[nothuman]

For a while now people have been mentioning that you need to take time off GH because you will develop antibodies to it and while your serum tests may be showing that you are injecting real GH, your IGF levels may not. I believe it was LEX who mentioned in another thread that he was going to be doing some bloodwork soon and encouraged others to do so as well. So that is what I did. Well I have been on GH off and on for probably over 20 years but have been constantly on for roughly 10 years. Over those years I have done bloodwork with IGF levels on numerous occasions while on Serostim and Thanktropin(as well as when off). At 4IU's per day my IGF levels have always come back in the low to mid 400's. I switched over from Thanktropin to Rips last december and today got the results of my first bloodwork since starting the Rips. My IGF-1 levels on 4IU per day came back at 421. I would think that if I was developing antibodies to it then my IGF levels would be a lot lower than that. Just wanted to relate my experince as I still don't quite understand the science behind the antibody theory and based on my extensive history with GH my body hasn't shown any signs of this happening. Maybe it is specific to some individuals such as allergys, I don't know.

Thanks for doing that, but unfortunately it doesn't really tell us much, since there is a school of thought that rips contain nearly 14iu per vial due to the testing from two years ago. If you had only used the Thanktropin and tested every three months at 4iu, that would tell us a whole lot more.

 

[muscle96ss]

Thanks for doing that, but unfortunately it doesn't really tell us much, since there is a school of thought that rips contain nearly 14iu per vial due to the testing from two years ago. If you had only used the Thanktropin and tested every three months at 4iu, that would tell us a whole lot more.

I'll be honest, I was a little disappointed as I did expect it to be a little higher based on what you mentioned about there being over 13iu's per vial. However if my body was developing antibodies then the results of my IGF-1 would be way lower then what they were.

 

[Zoobster]

Very nice results.


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[CDJack]

Antibodies are a very real thing to any recombinant protein drugs that are not bioidentical. And it would NOT be to IGF. It would be to the GH itself. That makes to sense it would be to the IGF. It'd be to the GH you are injecting. As long as they aren't neutralizing ABs, it's nothing to worry about, but yes, taking time off would allow antibody titers to return to baseline.

 

[Knight9]

Antibodies are a very real thing to any recombinant protein drugs that are not bioidentical. And it would NOT be to IGF. It would be to the GH itself. That makes to sense it would be to the IGF. It'd be to the GH you are injecting. As long as they aren't neutralizing ABs, it's nothing to worry about, but yes, taking time off would allow antibody titers to return to baseline.

I presumed the same, but how do you explain the results mentioned here?

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[sammy555]

My out look is this. Anti bodies or not it's Irrelevant really. Anything you put in your body over a course of time, be it gear, caffeine, alcohol gh whatever your body will find a way to adapt and desensitise is just the way it is. Don't get me wrong understanding the science is great but a break from anything will make it work better again in the future. I've used a lot of gh in the past and it definitely works better after a break. Whether or not is antibodies thst is the mechanism I honestly don't know and don't pretend too. Would be nice to know the whole story though. I'm taking a nice long break from gh for financial reasons currently and know when I get back on the rips is gonna be damn good. A little peptides during this time is good though. Just a few shots a day

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[LEX]

yea the anitbodies would be to the gh ...if more of the gh injected is netralized with anitbodies less IGF is produced.


thanks for posting that muscle, did you have by chance your thyroid levels done? also for the two readings you were on slightly different levels of GH if rips are overdosed and is time one the same? over all its useful for sure pretty much same levels.

 

[DEATHADDER]

yea the anitbodies would be to the gh ...if more of the gh injected is netralized with anitbodies less IGF is produced.


thanks for posting that muscle, did you have by chance your thyroid levels done? also for the two readings you were on slightly different levels of GH if rips are overdosed and is time one the same? over all its useful for sure pretty much same levels.

Also was insulin taken at all? Gh/slin/ thyroid are all part of a negative feedback loop.

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[Capin]

That is some great information I just had my IGF levels tested get the results Fri. Been on GH for two years straight now.

I now someone who has been on for many years now various chineese generics
never heard him say its losing its effectiveness.

Personaly I cycle everything even vitamins!

 

[Capin]

But I dont want to stop the GH its working so well even after 2 years?

 

[nothuman]

That is some great information I just had my IGF levels tested get the results Fri. Been on GH for two years straight now.

I now someone who has been on for many years now various chineese generics
never heard him say its losing its effectiveness.

Personaly I cycle everything even vitamins!

Please post the results on Friday when you get them.

And I have been on rips for 2 1/2 years straight and don't feel like they lost effectiveness, but I also know going by "feel" isn't really a good way to measure it. My diet has been far from good as of late on just trt and 5iu rips and I'm still staying pretty lean. I know I would have turned into a blob had the rips not been in the picture, even after being on so long. I can't just go get tests since it costs so much for me with my insurance plan (and don't have access to those $50 places).

 

[LEX]

Also was insulin taken at all? Gh/slin/ thyroid are all part of a negative feedback loop.

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I'm getting my thyroid levels now with all my gh/igf tests that was some interesting info you threw in last time, may have explained what I observed last time with my longer run.

 

[DEATHADDER]

I'm getting my thyroid levels now with all my gh/igf tests that was some interesting info you threw in last time, may have explained what I observed last time with my longer run.

It's pretty interesting that no one ever accounts for the feedback loops. Glad you looked into it further. The body has tons of them and yet we neglect them. If libido was down would we just test testosterone levels or would we check estrogen also? Same goes for the gh feedback loop.

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[muscle96ss]

yea the anitbodies would be to the gh ...if more of the gh injected is netralized with anitbodies less IGF is produced.


thanks for posting that muscle, did you have by chance your thyroid levels done? also for the two readings you were on slightly different levels of GH if rips are overdosed and is time one the same? over all its useful for sure pretty much same levels.

My thyroid has remained stable over the years; my free T3 is 3.0 which is right in the middle of the normal range and my TSH 1.13. I did my free T4 this time for the first time and it was .81 which is low as the reference range starts at .82. However, T4 is inactive and free T3 is main thing I am looking at with thyroid, so as long as free T3 is normal it really doesn't matter how its getting there(and no I haven't supplemented with thyroid in many many years; don't see a need to as long as T3 is normal and I don't have any symptoms).

 

[muscle96ss]

Also was insulin taken at all? Gh/slin/ thyroid are all part of a negative feedback loop.

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I have never used insulin. Thought about it many years ago but decided against it.

 

[DEATHADDER]

My thyroid has remained stable over the years; my free T3 is 3.0 which is right in the middle of the normal range and my TSH 1.13. I did my free T4 this time for the first time and it was .81 which is low as the reference range starts at .82. However, T4 is inactive and free T3 is main thing I am looking at with thyroid, so as long as free T3 is normal it really doesn't matter how its getting there(and no I haven't supplemented with thyroid in many many years; don't see a need to as long as T3 is normal and I don't have any symptoms).

I have a feeling the low t4 will become an issue as you'll have little available to convert to t3.

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[DK0223]

My out look is this. Anti bodies or not it's Irrelevant really. Anything you put in your body over a course of time, be it gear, caffeine, alcohol gh whatever your body will find a way to adapt and desensitise is just the way it is. Don't get me wrong understanding the science is great but a break from anything will make it work better again in the future. I've used a lot of gh in the past and it definitely works better after a break. Whether or not is antibodies thst is the mechanism I honestly don't know and don't pretend too. Would be nice to know the whole story though. I'm taking a nice long break from gh for financial reasons currently and know when I get back on the rips is gonna be damn good. A little peptides during this time is good though. Just a few shots a day

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damn homie between this post and your posts in ross's thread you are spitting fire

you keep it simple, i like that

 

[nwiron]

Good stuff. Thank you for sharing your experience.

NW