gh insulin

2swole79 · Nov 15, 2016

Tex, when you have a moment could you expand a litte on what you're doing with the PEG MGF...what are you getting out of it, why it's used a certain way, how it ties into all of these other peptides and "growth factors" etc...The reason I bring this up is because a few years ago at the advice of a fairly well respected guy in the bodybuilding community I stocked up on tons of MGF and ran a pretty long run with it rotating in and out IGF and keeping GH constant but fairly moderate like 4ius, and when it was all said and done I didn't really feel like I got anything out of it beyond what the GH would have done, probably a bit fuller while IGF was in but other than that it was a waste of about $800. I've kind of been of the opinion for a while now, that there are a whole lot of these "growth factors" and related stuff that we are right on the verge of realizing the big picture and that it was more complicated than just GH, slin, igf, mgf, but many many related growth factors that are triggered.

BigTex · Nov 17, 2016

2swole79 said:
Tex, when you have a moment could you expand a litte on what you're doing with the PEG MGF...what are you getting out of it, why it's used a certain way, how it ties into all of these other peptides and "growth factors" etc...The reason I bring this up is because a few years ago at the advice of a fairly well respected guy in the bodybuilding community I stocked up on tons of MGF and ran a pretty long run with it rotating in and out IGF and keeping GH constant but fairly moderate like 4ius, and when it was all said and done I didn't really feel like I got anything out of it beyond what the GH would have done, probably a bit fuller while IGF was in but other than that it was a waste of about $800. I've kind of been of the opinion for a while now, that there are a whole lot of these "growth factors" and related stuff that we are right on the verge of realizing the big picture and that it was more complicated than just GH, slin, igf, mgf, but many many related growth factors that are triggered.

Science has shown that MGF is elevated after mechanical loading and if I remember correctly, it does not fall back to base line for about 4-5 days. So I use the PEG version only because it keeps the level high and inject after training. So mechanical loading or the stress we put on muscles from lifting causes damage. This damage signals IGF-1 to split into IGF-1 Ea to cause the production of MGF. MGF seems to be used specifically to repair muscle cell damage cause by mechanical loading.

Now can I prove I am getting more growth from this? Of course not, I would have to quite taking everything else that helps. I figure it is kind of like shooting a shotgun at a target with small bird shot and a wide spread. You are bound to hit something and in this case, theoretically MGF may help. If you get a little more form using IGF-1, Insulin, MGF and even steroids then it is worth the cost for me to use as many as I can afford. Its like taking a multi-vitamin.....can I prove it helps, no but what if it does?

Now we each have to also do a cost to benefits assessment of what we chose to use. I'm not going to get a 2nd mortgage on my home to get a little bit more muscle growth but I will spend what I can afford comfortably spend. I get this shit pretty cheap so that makes it very easy for me. My wife and I rationalize if we spend $150/mo on stuff to grow we could have easily spent that in a weekend going to a bar and destroying our lives and health.

If you can't afford GH, the peptides or MK677 is a much less expensive option. IGF-1 is terribly expensive but so keeping the GH Levels very high will take the place of it. Slin is cheap so there is no excuse.

If I were on a small budget, I would do the following:

Insulin
MK677

As for the MK, try to find a source that sells raw powder. There are lots of them. You can get a gram for a fraction of what it cost to buy it on the internet pre-made. Its very easy to make.

One thing that sold me on MGF was when I had knee surgery. My doctor used plasma rich plasma therapy on me. He explained that when they draw blood before surgery they spin it down and collect all the growth factors from the blood and then inject it back into the repaired area. This speeds up recovery time. So I agreed naturally, to take part in this approach. I do feel it helped a lot. This same theory with using growth factors should be able to be applied to weight training. It does with GH, IGF-1 so why not MGF?

RamboStallone · Nov 17, 2016

BigTex said:
Science has shown that MGF is elevated after mechanical loading and if I remember correctly, it does not fall back to base line for about 4-5 days. So I use the PEG version only because it keeps the level high and inject after training. So mechanical loading or the stress we put on muscles from lifting causes damage. This damage signals IGF-1 to split into IGF-1 Ea to cause the production of MGF. MGF seems to be used specifically to repair muscle cell damage cause by mechanical loading.

Now can I prove I am getting more growth from this? Of course not, I would have to quite taking everything else that helps. I figure it is kind of like shooting a shotgun at a target with small bird shot and a wide spread. You are bound to hit something and in this case, theoretically MGF may help. If you get a little more form using IGF-1, Insulin, MGF and even steroids then it is worth the cost for me to use as many as I can afford. Its like taking a multi-vitamin.....can I prove it helps, no but what if it does?

Now we each have to also do a cost to benefits assessment of what we chose to use. I'm not going to get a 2nd mortgage on my home to get a little bit more muscle growth but I will spend what I can afford comfortably spend. I get this shit pretty cheap so that makes it very easy for me. My wife and I rationalize if we spend $150/mo on stuff to grow we could have easily spent that in a weekend going to a bar and destroying our lives and health.

If you can't afford GH, the peptides or MK677 is a much less expensive option. IGF-1 is terribly expensive but so keeping the GH Levels very high will take the place of it. Slin is cheap so there is no excuse.

If I were on a small budget, I would do the following:

Insulin
MK677

As for the MK, try to find a source that sells raw powder. There are lots of them. You can get a gram for a fraction of what it cost to buy it on the internet pre-made. Its very easy to make.

One thing that sold me on MGF was when I had knee surgery. My doctor used plasma rich plasma therapy on me. He explained that when they draw blood before surgery they spin it down and collect all the growth factors from the blood and then inject it back into the repaired area. This speeds up recovery time. So I agreed naturally, to take part in this approach. I do feel it helped a lot. This same theory with using growth factors should be able to be applied to weight training. It does with GH, IGF-1 so why not MGF?

You make some great points as always. You know I make sure to read all your posts. Thinking of it all now, PEG MGF might be a great option now that igf1 prices keep rising and good quality igf1 is scarce. You have my full attention, what would be the dosing protocol for PEG MGF? Would postworkout 3x a week at 200mcgs a dose be a sufficient run? I'm using test, ghrp2, MK677, and humalog. I was going to go the lr3 route but PEG MGF is half the price for a 2mg vial which would last me as long as a 1mg vial of lr3 with a 3x a week postworkout protocol.

Thebigone · Nov 17, 2016

BigTex said:
MGF is produced as a result of stress to the muscle and is thought to help make repairs. It stays elevated for a few days before reaching baseline. I like to use PEG MGF maybe 1-3 hours after training or even the next morning.

BigTex how much peg mgf do you use and how many times per week? Also why 1-3hrs pwo vs right after workout?

BigTex · Nov 17, 2016

RamboStallone said:
You make some great points as always. You know I make sure to read all your posts. Thinking of it all now, PEG MGF might be a great option now that igf1 prices keep rising and good quality igf1 is scarce. You have my full attention, what would be the dosing protocol for PEG MGF? Would postworkout 3x a week at 200mcgs a dose be a sufficient run? I'm using test, ghrp2, MK677, and humalog. I was going to go the lr3 route but PEG MGF is half the price for a 2mg vial which would last me as long as a 1mg vial of lr3 with a 3x a week postworkout protocol.

Thanks Rambo!

Hey, I agree about the IGF-1 products. I don't know why but the price has really risen in the past few months. It is cheaper to use MK and/or even HGH to get the IGF-1 in the body high. Unfortunately I had to make that decision when my source went up about $15 per vial. It suddenly became cost ineffective. When I can get 4 kits of HGH cheaper than i kit of IGF-1 Lr3 I have to with the HGH.

I do understand that many of us don't have access to good, cheap HGH so MK677 (IMHO) is a great route. Even 4-6 doses of peptides/d is a better way to go. CJC w/DAC can be found for pretty good prices even going 2mg/wk and pulsing with a GHRP is much cheaper than IGF-1 Lr3. I do like the CJC/DAC know quite a few in Europe going this direction.

I honestly don't know what the best dose of PEG MGF is. There is no real research showing if there is even a saturation level. I have gone 100mcg and also gone up to 600mcg. I do think using PEG MGF at bed time or early morning the next day after training or on days off is the way to go. I also think a dose of 200-400mcg is probably effective.

Bigone, 1-3 hours give your body a chance to also produce MGF. So my theory is let the body work naturally and then give it some help. Since I train at about 6:30pm, that puts me at about bed time. So much repair, growth and healing takes place while we sleep.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to sell anything to anyone.

BigTex · Nov 17, 2016

Here are a couple of interesting studies about MGF.

MGF appears to have a dual action in that, like the other IGF-I isoforms, it upregulates protein synthesis as well as activating satellite cells. However, the latter role of MGF is probably more important as most of the mature IGF-I will be derived from IGF-IEa during the second phase of repair. Nevertheless, it has been shown that MGF is a potent inducer of muscle hypertrophy in experiments in which the cDNA of MGF was inserted into a plasmid vector and introduced by intramuscular injection. This resulted in a 20 % increase in the weight of the injected muscle within 2 weeks, and the analyses showed that this was due to an increase in the size of the muscle fibres.

Goldspink G, (2001). Method of treating muscular disorders. United States Patent 6, 221, 842B1 April 24th.

ABSTRACT
The invention provides pharmaceutical compositions comprising particular isoforms of human insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I). An isofoim of the invention is an IGF-I polypeptide corresponding to the mechanical-stimulation-specific, stretch-inducible IGF-I isoform present in stretched rabbit EDL muscle, the polypeptide comprising peptides encoded by IGF-I exons 4, 5 and 6 when transcribed in the reading frame of the stretched rabbit EDL muscle isoform and the polypeptide having the ability to induce growth of muscle tissue. The isoforms of the invention have utility in treating muscular disorders, especially muscular dystrophy. Methods of treatment of such muscular disorders in humans and animals with the isoforms of the invention are also provided.

https://www.google.com/patents/US6221842

Similar experiments by other groups have also been carried out using a viral construct containing the liver type of IGF-I, which resulted in a 25 % increase in muscle mass, but this took over 4 months to develop

Musaro A, McCullagh K, Paul A, Houghton L, Dobrowolny G, Molinaro M, Barton ER, Sweeney HL& Rosenthal N (2001). Localized IGF-I transgene expression sustains hypertrophy and regeneration in senescent skeletal muscle. Nat Genet27, 195 – 200.

Abstract
Aging skeletal muscles suffer a steady decline in mass and functional performance, and compromised muscle integrity as fibrotic invasions replace contractile tissue, accompanied by a characteristic loss in the fastest, most powerful muscle fibers1, 2. The same programmed deficits in muscle structure and function are found in numerous neurodegenerative syndromes and disease-related cachexia3. We have generated a model of persistent, functional myocyte hypertrophy using a tissue-restricted transgene encoding a locally acting isoform of insulin-like growth factor-1 that is expressed in skeletal muscle (mIgf-1). Transgenic embryos developed normally, and postnatal increases in muscle mass and strength were not accompanied by the additional pathological changes seen in other Igf-1 transgenic models. Expression of GATA-2, a transcription factor normally undetected in skeletal muscle, marked hypertrophic myocytes that escaped age-related muscle atrophy and retained the proliferative response to muscle injury characteristic of younger animals. The preservation of muscle architecture and age-independent regenerative capacity through localized mIgf-1 transgene expression suggests clinical strategies for the treatment of age or disease-related muscle frailty.

Thebigone · Nov 17, 2016

BigTex said:
Here are a couple of interesting studies about MGF.

MGF appears to have a dual action in that, like the other IGF-I isoforms, it upregulates protein synthesis as well as activating satellite cells. However, the latter role of MGF is probably more important as most of the mature IGF-I will be derived from IGF-IEa during the second phase of repair. Nevertheless, it has been shown that MGF is a potent inducer of muscle hypertrophy in experiments in which the cDNA of MGF was inserted into a plasmid vector and introduced by intramuscular injection. This resulted in a 20 % increase in the weight of the injected muscle within 2 weeks, and the analyses showed that this was due to an increase in the size of the muscle fibres.

Goldspink G, (2001). Method of treating muscular disorders. United States Patent 6, 221, 842B1 April 24th.

ABSTRACT
The invention provides pharmaceutical compositions comprising particular isoforms of human insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I). An isofoim of the invention is an IGF-I polypeptide corresponding to the mechanical-stimulation-specific, stretch-inducible IGF-I isoform present in stretched rabbit EDL muscle, the polypeptide comprising peptides encoded by IGF-I exons 4, 5 and 6 when transcribed in the reading frame of the stretched rabbit EDL muscle isoform and the polypeptide having the ability to induce growth of muscle tissue. The isoforms of the invention have utility in treating muscular disorders, especially muscular dystrophy. Methods of treatment of such muscular disorders in humans and animals with the isoforms of the invention are also provided.

https://www.google.com/patents/US6221842

Similar experiments by other groups have also been carried out using a viral construct containing the liver type of IGF-I, which resulted in a 25 % increase in muscle mass, but this took over 4 months to develop

Musaro A, McCullagh K, Paul A, Houghton L, Dobrowolny G, Molinaro M, Barton ER, Sweeney HL& Rosenthal N (2001). Localized IGF-I transgene expression sustains hypertrophy and regeneration in senescent skeletal muscle. Nat Genet27, 195 – 200.

Abstract
Aging skeletal muscles suffer a steady decline in mass and functional performance, and compromised muscle integrity as fibrotic invasions replace contractile tissue, accompanied by a characteristic loss in the fastest, most powerful muscle fibers1, 2. The same programmed deficits in muscle structure and function are found in numerous neurodegenerative syndromes and disease-related cachexia3. We have generated a model of persistent, functional myocyte hypertrophy using a tissue-restricted transgene encoding a locally acting isoform of insulin-like growth factor-1 that is expressed in skeletal muscle (mIgf-1). Transgenic embryos developed normally, and postnatal increases in muscle mass and strength were not accompanied by the additional pathological changes seen in other Igf-1 transgenic models. Expression of GATA-2, a transcription factor normally undetected in skeletal muscle, marked hypertrophic myocytes that escaped age-related muscle atrophy and retained the proliferative response to muscle injury characteristic of younger animals. The preservation of muscle architecture and age-independent regenerative capacity through localized mIgf-1 transgene expression suggests clinical strategies for the treatment of age or disease-related muscle frailty.

So since it's site specific I wonder if it's still best to inject peg mgf bi laterally into the muscles trained that day at that night.

BigTex · Nov 17, 2016

Thebigone said:
So since it's site specific I wonder if it's still best to inject peg mgf bi laterally into the muscles trained that day at that night.

What science has discovered is that MGF is produced as a result of injury or mechanical loading. They have also discovered that MGF levels are high and do not return to baseline for days. Regular MGF has a very short 1/2 life and probably would not make it to the end of a workout. PEG MGF definitely would. My guess is optimal might be as soon as you finish training, how long the window of opportunity might last I have no idea. Seeing that MGF levels remain high for days could tell us the window is open quite quite some time after training.

In another study I was reading they found GH and exercise cause more MGF than IGF-1 + exercise. So naturally as we age and GH levels drop, so do MGF levels. So older people can avoid this by taking GH. My guess is high levels of GH also cause high levels of MGF with exercise, so perhaps just taking GH is going to do the trick without supplementing with MGF?

warlock · Nov 17, 2016

BigTex,

How many days a week are you taking the PEG MGF?

That study looks good

bigorse · Nov 18, 2016

Very interesting thread I was just about to purchase 4mg of MGF to experiment with and 2mg of PEG MGF on top of my mk677 (will also add other GH peps to this for a little extra kick) but I think now I'll just spend all my money on PEG MGF.

Thinking of going something like 200mcg post workout bilat and insulin pre/post around 10-12iu on specific days after I make weight for this meet. Ive been on a cyclic keto diet to drop weight for a meet but would also think this would help get my IGF up more as the low insulin levels would allow my mk677 to pulse more.

As far as GH peps I was going to go hex/mod grf preworkout and ipam/mod grf pre bed maybe some hex upon waking too

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RamboStallone · Nov 18, 2016

BigTex said:
In another study I was reading they found GH and exercise cause more MGF than IGF-1 + exercise. So naturally as we age and GH levels drop, so do MGF levels. So older people can avoid this by taking GH. My guess is high levels of GH also cause high levels of MGF with exercise, so perhaps just taking GH is going to do the trick without supplementing with MGF?

Insulin promotes MGF production as well brother. This is what I am speaking of when I say GH or GH peps and slin preworkout to increase MGF production from training. You just circled back to my point, why use exogenous GH when you can use gh/gh peps and slin preworkout to enhance intracellular MGF. PEG MGF or any exogenous MGF have been said to attach to an extracellular receptor and still work, but MGF produced by the body is intracellular, it's the igf1 that's extracellular.

Gh/gh peps and slin preworkout, igf1lr3 postworkout. The theories above support this.

This is all interesting territory. I'm sticking to log and ghrp2 preworkout, still contemplating if to add anything postworkout. More slin? PEG MGF? Igf1-Lr3?

Decisions.

BigTex · Nov 18, 2016

warlock said:
BigTex,

How many days a week are you taking the PEG MGF?

That study looks good

7 days/wk right now. I take it 1st thing in the morning. I am going to give this about 6 weeks. I am hoping it will help me get back to where I left off in August, before most of my time was occupied with football.

bigorse · Nov 18, 2016

RamboStallone said:
Insulin promotes MGF production as well brother. This is what I am speaking of when I say GH or GH peps and slin preworkout to increase MGF production from training. You just circled back to my point, why use exogenous GH when you can use gh/gh peps and slin preworkout to enhance intracellular MGF. PEG MGF or any exogenous MGF have been said to attach to an extracellular receptor and still work, but MGF produced by the body is intracellular, it's the igf1 that's extracellular.

Gh/gh peps and slin preworkout, igf1lr3 postworkout. The theories above support this.

This is all interesting territory. I'm sticking to log and ghrp2 preworkout, still contemplating if to add anything postworkout. More slin? PEG MGF? Igf1-Lr3?

Decisions.

You use cjc dac on top of that correct? GH peptides ESP. Dac are so expensive here.

Thinking of using low dose hex like 50mcg per dose for cost effect and the studies and logs I've read of an effective dose being 0.0mcg/kg so 50mcg would be around saturation dose for me while I'm lighter. Probably use 75mcg of mod grf 2x per day aswell.

Wake up
20mg mk677
10mg gw501516
10mg yk11
50mcg hex cardio then eat

Preworkout 50mcg hex/75mcg mod
20mins later 10-12iu slin
10mg gw501516

Post workout 6-8iu slin
200mcg PEG MGF

Pre bed
250mcg ipam/75mcg mod
20mg mk677

Currently cruising but after this meet and a little holiday I'll be adding a low dose tren a (150-300mg week) in on top of 500mg test which is still low dose gear for 6 weeks. Idea with the tren is it should increase IGF/MGF further on top of GH peptides. Then cruise again for 5 weeks then blast some real gear running into my first big meet of the year, should be around 245-250 by the time I do that meet.

2swole79 · Nov 18, 2016

It seems to me like there is a major lack of understanding on what an effective dose with something like this is....Like Tex explained MGF is released in response to excercise, or specifically trauma to the muscle fibers I think, so it would make sense to somewhat mimick the body's response in how it releases MGF post workout, but unlike things like Gh where we can and have measured levels of serum GH in the blood, and IGF scores, unless I've just missed it all these years I've never seen anything about serum blood levels of MGF, so how do we even know...Also with things that have cross affinities for other receptors like we have with some of these how do we know whats doing what and why is it doing it? It's been about 6-7 years, but I think the run I did was 6 months total, the first 3 was around 400-600 MGF post WO followed by 60mcgs IGF1 lr3 first thing in the morning...The second 3 months was 2 weeks MGF post WO 400-600 daily, followed by 2 weeks IGF 1lr3 60-100mcgs post WO. The entire 6 months I kept 4ius GH post WO constant. Has anybody ever seen anything about actual blood levels of MGF and what dosages would make sense given that info? On paper MGF is one of those things that would sure seem to be able to unlock serious hypertrophy if done right, but I've never seen anything conclusive. Also if it seems to be released by the muscle in response to exercise, thenit would seem that a "localized" dosing protocol would make sense, no? Then on the other hand, as Tex explained it's active for a few days. Tex, have you ever kept all other variables in your program constant, and then introduced the PEG MGF and taken it out? That might help clarify a little.....good discussion guys.

Thebigone · Nov 18, 2016

It's refreshing to know that peg mgf has no negative effect on exogenous lr3.

BigTex · Nov 18, 2016

2swole79 said:
It seems to me like there is a major lack of understanding on what an effective dose with something like this is....Like Tex explained MGF is released in response to excercise, or specifically trauma to the muscle fibers I think, so it would make sense to somewhat mimick the body's response in how it releases MGF post workout, but unlike things like Gh where we can and have measured levels of serum GH in the blood, and IGF scores, unless I've just missed it all these years I've never seen anything about serum blood levels of MGF, so how do we even know...Also with things that have cross affinities for other receptors like we have with some of these how do we know whats doing what and why is it doing it? It's been about 6-7 years, but I think the run I did was 6 months total, the first 3 was around 400-600 MGF post WO followed by 60mcgs IGF1 lr3 first thing in the morning...The second 3 months was 2 weeks MGF post WO 400-600 daily, followed by 2 weeks IGF 1lr3 60-100mcgs post WO. The entire 6 months I kept 4ius GH post WO constant. Has anybody ever seen anything about actual blood levels of MGF and what dosages would make sense given that info? On paper MGF is one of those things that would sure seem to be able to unlock serious hypertrophy if done right, but I've never seen anything conclusive. Also if it seems to be released by the muscle in response to exercise, thenit would seem that a "localized" dosing protocol would make sense, no? Then on the other hand, as Tex explained it's active for a few days. Tex, have you ever kept all other variables in your program constant, and then introduced the PEG MGF and taken it out? That might help clarify a little.....good discussion guys.

Figure 1 Splicing of the insulin-like growth factor (IGF) gene to produce different forms of IGF-I in human muscle. Mechano growth factor (MGF) is produced locally in response to exercise and it differs from the two systemic types of IGF-I as the 49 base insert in the exon creates a reading frame shift so that the downstream or C-terminal peptide sequence is different. This unique peptide has been found to be involved in activating the muscle stem cells and to ‘‘kick start’’ the tissue repair and/or hypertrophy processes. In the elderly, who are growth hormone (GH) deficient, there is an improvement in MGF expression when administration of recombinant human GH is combined with exercise. Reg Seqn, Regulatory sequence.

So is it IGF-1?

As early as 1967 Alfred Goldberg showed that in hypophysectomized animals muscle hypertrophy still took place following overload despite the blunting of IGF-I production in the liver.

Goldberg AL. Work-induced growth of skeletal muscle in normal and hypophysectomized rats. Am J Physiol 213: 1193–1198, 1967.

Goldberg AL. Work-induced growth of skeletal muscle in normal and hypophysectomized rats. Am J Physiol 213: 1193–1198, 1967.

Research suggests that after injury or mechanical loading to skeletal muscle, the IGF-IEb mRNA splice variant is up-regulated initially, followed by up-regulation of the IGF-IEa splice variant at later time points (figure1). Up-regulation of IGF-IEb mRNA correlates with markers of satellite cell and myoblast proliferation, whereas up-regulation of IGF-IEa mRNA is correlated with differentiation to mature myofibers. Due to the apparent role of IGF-IEb up-regulation in muscle remodeling, IGF-IEb mRNA was also named mechano-growth factor (MGF). A synthetically manufactured peptide (also termed MGF) corresponding to the 24 most C-terminal residues of IGF-IEb has been shown to promote cellular proliferation and survival.

So what cause MGF?

Ken Baldwin and Greg Adams in the United States showed that MGF is expressed earlier than IGF-IEa in response to exercise.

Haddad F, Adams GR. Selected contribution: acute cellular and molecular responses to resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol 2002;93:394–403

We know that mechanical loading through exercise causes damage to the muscle. But where does GH come into play?

Goldspink et.al., using specific primers (gene probes), we measured the mRNA concentrations of MGF and IGF-IEa using quantitative polymerase chain reaction mechanically in overloaded rodent muscle as well as in human volunteers in which muscle biopsy specimens were taken 2.5 hours after a single bout of high intensity exercise of knee extensor muscles. In young muscle, MGF mRNA concentrations were significantly increased as a result of resistance exercise, but no significant change was observed in older muscle when subjected to the same degree of mechanical overload. However, elderly male volunteers when given growth hormone combined with exercise training produced increased concentrations of MGF, which could be correlated with increased muscle cross sectional area as determined from computed tomography scans

Owino V, Yang SY, Goldspink G. Age-related loss of skeletal muscle function and the inability to express the autocrine form of insulin-like growth factor-1 (MGF) in response to mechanical overload. FEBS Lett 2001;505:259–63.

Hameed M, Orrell RW, Cobbold M, et al. Expression of IGF-I splice variants in young and old human skeletal muscle after high resistance exercise. J Physiol 2003;547:247–54.

Hameed M, Lange KH, Andersen JL, et al. The effect of recombinant human growth hormone and resistance training on IGF-I mRNA expression in the muscles of elderly men. J Physiol 2004;555:231–40.

So apparently mechanical loading to the muscle causes the variant split to mRNA splice variant (IGF-IEa/IGF-IEb) which forms MGF (IGF-1 Ec-humans). Growth hormone (GH) is the principal regulator of IGF-I expression in several tissues including the skeletal muscle. Thus, as we get older and GH levels decrease, we have difficulty producing MGF.

Does GH help younger guys?

In contrast, young men receiving either GH or placebo for 14 d before an acute exercise bout showed no increased IGF-IEc mRNA levels 2.5 h after exercise. So in this case those of us with normal pulses of GH get no benefit of adding GH in MGF production. When elderly subjects receiving GH also performed resistance exercise, there was an even greater elevation of IGF-IEc mRNA than with resistance training or GH alone.

Aperghis M, Velloso CP, Hameed M, Brothwood T, Bradley L, Bouloux PM, Harridge SD, Goldspink G 2009 Serum IGF-I levels and IGF-I gene splicing in muscle of healthy young males receiving rhGH. Growth Horm IGF Res 19:61–67

Hameed M, Lange KH, Andersen JL, Schjerling P, Kjaer M, Harridge SD, Goldspink G 2004 The effect of recombinant human growth hormone and resistance training on IGF-I mRNA expression in the muscles of elderly men. J Physiol 555:231–240

But IGF-1 is produced from GH an used to form MGF, right? Not necessarily, MGF is derived from IGF-I but its sequence differs from the systemic IGF-I produced by the liver. So adding more IGF-1 is not necessarily going to help produce more MGF.

2swole79, I have never kept all of the variables constant to notice any real changes. The two times I really used a lot of MGF were:

Shoulder (rotator) injury. I did notice after 6 weeks the injured shoulder by observation was slightly fuller than the non injured shoulder. So I had to play catch up.

Knee surgery - I used MGF every day injected into the area that was surgically repaired. My surgeon was literally shocked at how quickly I healed. I ruptured 3 quads and a patella. Back in the gym in 1 week, did leg work in 4 weeks. Released in week 5. My doctor is the Houston Texans main surgeon so he is very experienced in this area.

I am using it now 7 days a week at 600mcg/day to help catch back up from 3 months of only being able to train 2 days a week. I lost 20 lbs of body weight but very little strength. In about 2 weeks now I have gained 15 lbs. I have not done BF testing since I started to see what kind of gains I am getting. My strength has increased and my diet has changed to include more carbs. I also added the MK677 back in the mix. I am not retain very much water as I am still very vascular and defined. So I can't say positively it is the PEG MGF but I can;'t rule out that it is not part of the rapid changes.

2swole79 · Nov 19, 2016

Tex, maybe I overlooked this part, but when you injured your shoulder were you administering the MGF locally into the injured shoulder like you were with your knee? If so, and it was noticably fuller within six weeks, then in a way that's kind of like removing one variable (MGF) at a time, right? I mean one shoulder is injured, you inject MGF into the injured shoulder, but you train both shoulders for six weeks, and at the end of six weeks the injured shoulder is now "fuller" than the non injured (and non MGF'd) shoulder....I mean, yeah there are a few "possibiities" that something else could have occured, but sounds like a pretty fair conclusion, right? You did continue to train both shoulders I'm assuming? If so....seems to point in the right direction to me. I'm wondering why I seemed to get next to nothing out of a six month run at the same 600mcg/day....maybe because my injection schedule rotated daily with my bodyparts trained during my split??? I possibly I was just getting a little out of it everywhere, but not hitting any one muscle often enough to notice the difference compared to others? Maybe my peps were crap, lol? who knows. I'll tell you one thing....It always seems like supraphysiological doses of GH around training seems to trigger a cascade of all these growth factors, kinda like GH is the Master growth factor or the one that unlocks the potential of the others...With super high doses of GH it seems like our bodies have variants upon variants increase endogeniously....cool stuff. Always learning, aren't we....

BigTex · Nov 19, 2016

2swole79 said:
Tex, maybe I overlooked this part, but when you injured your shoulder were you administering the MGF locally into the injured shoulder like you were with your knee? If so, and it was noticably fuller within six weeks, then in a way that's kind of like removing one variable (MGF) at a time, right? I mean one shoulder is injured, you inject MGF into the injured shoulder, but you train both shoulders for six weeks, and at the end of six weeks the injured shoulder is now "fuller" than the non injured (and non MGF'd) shoulder....I mean, yeah there are a few "possibiities" that something else could have occured, but sounds like a pretty fair conclusion, right? You did continue to train both shoulders I'm assuming? If so....seems to point in the right direction to me. I'm wondering why I seemed to get next to nothing out of a six month run at the same 600mcg/day....maybe because my injection schedule rotated daily with my bodyparts trained during my split??? I possibly I was just getting a little out of it everywhere, but not hitting any one muscle often enough to notice the difference compared to others? Maybe my peps were crap, lol? who knows. I'll tell you one thing....It always seems like supraphysiological doses of GH around training seems to trigger a cascade of all these growth factors, kinda like GH is the Master growth factor or the one that unlocks the potential of the others...With super high doses of GH it seems like our bodies have variants upon variants increase endogeniously....cool stuff. Always learning, aren't we....

I agree 2swole, when I trained both shoulders for the same period of time and 1 was bigger, there seems to be only one answer. One thing else I forgot to add was the MGF was just that and not PEG MGF. I am using the PEG now.

Now another experiment I have done more recently. I have been on a high protein diet for a little over a year. I dropped down to a low of 2 weeks ago to 3.7% BF. I stopped the diet and added carbs back, keeping the protein high, so the calories were higher. Added MK677, anavar and PEG MGF to the mix. I guess 18 days later I am 15lbs heavier and now 4,42% BF. Using skin fold calipers I actually gained 12.68lbs of lean body mass and 2.32lbs of fat. Either the MK677 or anavar caused intercellular water gains or the PEG MGF and/or anavar cause some big growth in a short period of time or both happened.

RamboStallone · Nov 19, 2016

MGF works for site growth, many have reported that. Thanks BigTex, your experience supports that as well.

PEG MGF is systematic, and the peg makes it slowly release. If we can figure out half and active lives of this peptide, we may be able to figure out a proper protocol and dosing. With MGF 50-100mcgs in the muscle trained seemed to work. This tells me with PEG MGF maybe the doses of 200-400mcgs make sense.

BigTex, those studies are very informative. I'm a big advocate of preworkout and postworkout gh/slin/peps to enhance the intracellular MGF production (you probably noticed since I've repeated myself like a broken record several times, I just can't shut up sometimes lol). I enjoy reading those studies that supports the theory. Do you have links to the full studies?