GHRH/GHRP or Generic Exogenous Growth?

[Ocean cool]

How effective is taking Ghrp-6 only? The reason i ask is because i've allot of ghrp-6 left.

How much equivalent of HGH (iu) would it be for someone who is taking 250mcg x 4 daily.

 

[megarips250]

Which is better?

Well, that is an IMPOSSIBLE question to answer without taking into consideration the relevant variables, such as compound type and dosage.

Obviously, if someone is using 12 iu of exo. GH daily, there is no peptide combo, regardless of dose, which can match that dose of exo. GH it in terms of GH or IGF-1 elevation. However, when we are comparing doses of 6-8 iu or less, peptides absolutely can compete and in many cases provide better results than exo. GH.

For example, if someone says "which is better, 100 mcg of GHRP-6 three times daily...or 6 iu of exo. GH?", the exo. GH is obviously going to come out on top. But...if someone says "what is better, 5 mg Dac/week and 25 mg MK-677/day...or 3 iu of exo. GH?"...then the answer is most definitely the Dac and MK-677.

Lab work has proven this many, many times over. In fact, high-dose Dac in combination with MK-677 has increased some people's IGF-1 levels so high (600+) that it usually requires 8 iu of exo. GH/day (or more) to achieve comparable lab results.

It's fairly easy to achieve GH and IGF-1 readings comparable to 5 iu of GH with even low dose Dac and MK-677.

So, before anyone asks this question again they would do well to be more specific by comparing particular compounds and dosages, rather than making general comparisons that cannot be answered with any accuracy.

Right, and I can apreciate where you're coming from. taking the individual users goals into consideration is an important variable. The compound type and dosage is important as well. IMHO Ultimately, pharm grade HGH trumps all peptides and I think that pro bodybuilders and gurus alike would agree. This is not to say that peptides don't have there place in a bodybuilders protocol weather they are cutting, bulking, or in contest prep. I'm just looking at it from the standpoint of someone who is using Insulin along side HGH. Timing your slin with HGH is simple and effective because you just take them together. With peptides you have to do your research on when the peptide will cause a pulse or if it has a bleed effect. In conclusion i think peptides are great but HGH is better.

My opinions are coming from the standpoint of a user, consumer, and competitive bodybuilder who is only looking for results. I have no agenda and am not looking to increase sales for one source or another.

 

[fitstar]

Alternate hgh/peps and igf l3

Many guys are quick to dismiss pep tides but most haven't used them. Or perhaps they used them once. To answer your question I would say simply rotate. You have tried various things yourself so know to an extent how you respond.

I would use MK-677 in gaining phases. You could also use a combo of approx 10mg MK and 2-5iu HGH at times. As you know MK works out much cheaper than high dosed HGH so it's smart to use a combo at smaller doses and in my experience you get very similar results. I personally get more results using MK than HGH but everyone is different. If cutting I wouldn't use more than 10mg MK-677 and would drop it long before any contest day.

It's entirely up to you but for cutting I recommend Hexarelin and Ipamorelin combined with a GHRH such as CJC-DAC or Tesamorelin. That would be great in cutting phases. I would rotate from them for 8-12 weeks onto a HGH cycle using approx 2-10iu per day depending upon budget and exact goals. At higher dose of HGH I recommend splitting the dose up at least twice.

You could even run a smaller dose of HGH with approx 100mcg ghrp-2 10 mins before shots to maxmize results. 1 vial of GHRP-2 costs next to nothing and you will get 50 doses at 5mg so it's a great system when using HGH. You could run 100mcg ghrp-2 and 2iu HGH twice daily so would need 1 vial of ghrp-2 and 100iu hgh every 25 days.

There are so many options so I would just experiment and see what works best for you but it's good to see someone with an open mind. I remember on here when everyone would dismiss MK-677 and now almost everyone has tried it and realizes it fucking strong even if they don't like it.

So in short rotate or combine lower doses of each for maximized results and minimized side effects. I strongly urge you to try LR3 if you haven't either. I personally have that as number 1 in my list and you could run that for 1 month in between hgh and pep tide cycles.

Lot's to take in as there are so many options but small doses of a 2-3 things could do great things for your fullness, recovery, sleep, pumps and overall results.

You suggest to cycle between igf l3 and hgh? So you actually do Not think long runs on hgh are best?

Seems to be more effective to dose for example 2iu of hgh plus peps rather than upping to 4iu of hgh?
As peps are also kind of pricey and hard to get these Days i wonder which routine is more effective and also maybe cheaper?!
I know datbtrue was also a fan ob ich with peps or Even peps over hgh so this stuff has caught my Eye but I know Not much about all those different peps and Need to Read more on this lol

 

[ChuckLee]

Over the past 4 years I have used generic growth twice. The first time I used it I was dosing 6-10IU of Blue tops (source: UncleZ) once a day in the morning when i was in a fasted state. I ran this for 3 months. My knowlege of how to use HGH at the time was very limited and basicly I had no idea what I was doing. I noticed that i was holding A LOT of water, i felt lethargic at certain times of the day, joints felt good, hair felt softer, skin had a nice tan tone.

Second time I used Generics I used Riptropin for 3 months. This time around I was more knowledgeable but still far from fully understanding the different methods of utilizing it. Dose was 10IU a day split up into 5 doses of 2IU. The effects were exactly like those stated above from the first time I used it. Both times I walked away from the cycle not to happy with the results.

As far as GHRH/GHRP goes, I started using Ipamorelin with CJC after a bad knee injury. My doc at the time was recommending surgery but I didnt want to go under the knife so I decided to experiment. The healing properties are very real. Within a couple months of use I was back on my feet, back in the gym, and training hard. I then moved on to MK677 and Huperzine A (somatostatin inhib). Out of all the compounds i used I feel like the combination of MK677 with Huperzine A was the most powerful. My muscles always looked full/ round, vascularity was improved, pumps were strong, and my strength went up on all my compund lifts. I did hold water with the peptides but I realised that mineral retention was the culperate and after you shed the water you can see the real gains you have made.


Currently I'm on an off season program and my goals are to stay as lean as possible, gains as much muscle as possible, bring up lagging body parts, and ultimatly get my pro card. I plan on competeing at the North Americans next year. I'm using MK677 w Huperzine A in conjunction with Novolin R on the days I train my lagging body parts. Things are going great but i want to maxamise my results.

How are you dosing the MK and Huperzine?
I've been using MK alone before and then I added 200mcg 2x day of Huperzine. I can definitely feel the difference so I was thinking to raise the MK dose to 30-40mg daily and see if it gets even better.

 

[thethinker48]

https://youtu.be/wW9GAeSH8IM

Watch this if you guys want a far better understanding of GH than anyone can provide or has the time to provide on this board.

Individual physiology plays a HUGE role in this. That's why some people transform under GH, some do better with peptides and their endogenous production, and some don't get much out of either (very rare but there's data to support this).

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[megarips250]

https://youtu.be/wW9GAeSH8IM

Watch this if you guys want a far better understanding of GH than anyone can provide or has the time to provide on this board.

Individual physiology plays a HUGE role in this. That's why some people transform under GH, some do better with peptides and their endogenous production, and some don't get much out of either (very rare but there's data to support this).

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

This is good stuff. Thanks brother.

 

[RamboStallone]

Gh didn't impress me till I used 6iu and 10iu, it was for a short period. Other then that 3-5iu showed no benefits over what the peptides give and the peptides do it faster, gh is a slow process. Best is to combine both, the comparison is apples to oranges imo and combining them or figuring out what works best for you is the more important conversation.

 

[Sixfoottwo]

Gh didn't impress me till I used 6iu and 10iu, it was for a short period. Other then that 3-5iu showed no benefits over what the peptides give and the peptides do it faster, gh is a slow process. Best is to combine both, the comparison is apples to oranges imo and combining them or figuring out what works best for you is the more important conversation.

How would you combine HGH and pep tides then? I've been struggling with this for a while and still not sure if it's worth trying..

 

[goal245]

gh is a slow process.

Not if used at a good dose. 18iu/day serostim studies patients gained all the weight they would from it in about 12 weeks, every other day dosing lead to about half the gains

 

[Ocean cool]

I would like to know from the vet how would u combine peps + HGH + MK.

 

[IsaacHaze1]

when I combined peps and gh, i would create the pulse with ipa or ghrp2 and fifteen mins later, shoot gh. the idea was if you were riding the pulse created by the ghrp, it would amplify the iu strength. just a bro guesstimate....but 5 ius would feel like 10ius.

when i was sponsored (as my old handle Plang)by a now defunct peptide site, my craziest pep gh cycle was

pre workout

1 hr pre: 200mcg ghrp or ipa + 200 mcg mod GRF
45 pre: 5iu gh
15 pre: 10iu humulin

post workout

100 mcg MGF in muscle trained bilaterally (200mcg total)

Morning after workout

100mcg DES IGF in muscle trained bilaterally (200mcg total)

 

[RamboStallone]

I would like to know from the vet how would u combine peps + HGH + MK.

Just take both that's how lol. GH in the AM, MK677 prebed is a good protocol. You can add ghrp2 and cjc before GH dose in AM then preworkout and meals.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Guys Mike A. has a great peptide regime outlined on the web incorporating green tea extract and huperize A. in combination with your peptide injects....I believe it was written before Mk was widely available, but my experience was that it made my same dose of peptides go from just an anti- aging, (skin looking better, slightly increased recovery ect) to a truly effective bodybuilding dose without having to increase the amount of peps...thank you Mike!

The most bang I've ever gotten from any gh and or peptides however was Dat's 100/100 GHRH/GHRP-2 with 2ius 15 minutes later 3x/day....was noticeably stronger than 6ius, and IMO would have been stronger than 8ius at least for BB purposes, although that's pretty tough to quantify or prove.

If I wanted to stretch my $ and get the most out of it these days. I would use Mike's protocol of DAC with GHRP-2 plus huperzine and green tea extract 3-4x daily plus 10-25mgs MK677 at bedtime, with my preworkout injection adding the 2ius 15 minutes later. MK is cheap as hell, peptides are fairly affordable and much stronger with the added supps. and 2ius will stretch your gh kits for 50 days. Personally I think adding the MK to all the above would be too much for myself from a bloat, appetite, and cts standpoint.

Thank you, but some of that info is outdated now. That was written quite a few years ago--before MK even became popular and when people didn't know nearly as much about GH peptides/secretagogues as they do now.

There was even a time, not too long ago, when CJC-DAC was being proclaimed as garbage by one of the brightest minds in the peptide world (Dat). The article you are referring to (that I wrote) was written way back then. As you can see, I never bought into the "CJC-DAC is trash" mindset that seemed to pervade the boards of the day, but we were all still learning.

Today, I think the best 2-drug combo available is MK-677 and CJC-DAC. People have experienced some crazy high IGF-1 levels on that regimen, as well as amazing results. Just those two drugs alone (MK and DAC) can produce some very impressive labs within a short period of time.

 

[Ocean cool]

Hi Mike,

What would u consider a good dose for both?

12.5 mg MK and 1mg CJC Dac?

Thank you, but some of that info is outdated now. That was written quite a few years ago--before MK even became popular and when people didn't know nearly as much about GH peptides/secretagogues as they do now.

There was even a time, not too long ago, when CJC-DAC was being proclaimed as garbage by one of the brightest minds in the peptide world (Dat). The article you are referring to (that I wrote) was written way back then. As you can see, I never bought into the "CJC-DAC is trash" mindset that seemed to pervade the boards of the day, but we were all still learning.

Today, I think the best 2-drug combo available is MK-677 and CJC-DAC. People have experienced some crazy high IGF-1 levels on that regimen, as well as amazing results. Just those two drugs alone (MK and DAC) can produce some very impressive labs within a short period of time.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Right, and I can apreciate where you're coming from. taking the individual users goals into consideration is an important variable. The compound type and dosage is important as well. IMHO Ultimately, pharm grade HGH trumps all peptides and I think that pro bodybuilders and gurus alike would agree. This is not to say that peptides don't have there place in a bodybuilders protocol weather they are cutting, bulking, or in contest prep. I'm just looking at it from the standpoint of someone who is using Insulin along side HGH. Timing your slin with HGH is simple and effective because you just take them together. With peptides you have to do your research on when the peptide will cause a pulse or if it has a bleed effect. In conclusion i think peptides are great but HGH is better.

My opinions are coming from the standpoint of a user, consumer, and competitive bodybuilder who is only looking for results. I have no agenda and am not looking to increase sales for one source or another.

Like I said in the prior post, neither one cann be proclaimed better than the other without taking into consideration dosage and compound type. That is not my opinion, but a fact. Not to repeat myself, but it seems necessary,so here goes. If someone is using 10 iu of injectable GH, there is no combination of secretagogues is going to match it, but there are plenty of GH secretagogue combos that will kick the shit out of 3 iu of injectable GH...and even 5 iu of injectable GH.

MK-677 and CJC-DAC is one combo that can do so...and we have sen it happen many times with confirmable blood work. Some guys have achieved IGF-1 levels in the freakin' 600's on that combo...which is a LOT higher than what 3-5 iu of injectable GH is going to do for you. Now, that combo isn't necessary cheap, but it isn't anymore expensive than 3 iu of GH a day either.

I would disagree that all pro bodybuilders and coaches think injectable GH is superior in all cases, as quite a few pros and national levels guys (including some on this very board; both pros and National-level guys) have publicly stated that they NO LONGER use injectable GH because they feel secretagogues provide equal or better results at a better price.

Now, these are guys who were using like 3-5 iu of injectable GH per day, NOT 10+ iu daily, so no one is saying that MK and DAC is better than 10 iu of injectable GH. However, when it comes to 3-5 iu of injectable GH, then it is easily possible to achieve better results with that combo. Hell, quite a few guys think just MK alone is better than 3 iu of injectable GH--me included. I've used both many, many times and I barely get any results from 3 iu of GH...and the results are SLOW to come. I just had a guy email me last week telling me that his IGF-1 level reached 385 from taking 2 caps of Somatozine daily (contains 25 mg MK).

In conclusion, nothing can touch high-dose injectable GH, but when using the right secretagogues at the proper dosages, they most certainly can compare to and even exceed low to moderate doses of injectable GH. If using GH and IGF-1 levels as a measure of efficacy, then this statement would be fact, not an opinion. Tons of guys right here on this board have publicly posted their bloodwork results using all sorts of combinations over the years, so we have a pretty good idea of what does what and what combination is comparable to a given dose of injectable GH from a GH and IGF-1 elevation standpoint.

Lastly, several of the best secretagogues available today do not require any more research than injectable GH, nor are they any more difficult to use. For example, your typical MK and DAC combo is usually taken just once per day, at any time during the day. It doesn't get any easier than that.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Hi Mike,

What would u consider a good dose for both?

12.5 mg MK and 1mg CJC Dac?

In terms of dosage, one's financial situation will ultimately determine what is the most cost-effective. For guys on a lower income who struggle to buy supps, 10-12.5 mg/day is probably best, but for guys who can purchase supps without any financial strain, then I believe 25 mg/day is ideal.

When it comes to DAC, you're going to find a wider dosing range, with income levels having a bigger effect on what dosage someone might find ideal. I think 5 mg/week is a very solid, fairly inexpensive dose, assuming you buy from the right people. Some people charge a LOT more than others--like 2-3X as much in some cases.

Guys on a lower income might find just 2 mg/week more suitable. Those who don't mind spending a little more may want to try 10 mg/week.

Now, results will be significantly better with 10 mg/week vs. 2 mg/week, but even 2 mg/week, when combined with 25 mg of MK/day, can produce some pretty impressive GH and IGF-1 increases for an inexpensive legal supp stack; certainly better than what 3 iu of injectable GH will give you...and for less money.

In conclusion, 2-10 mg/week is a pretty normal range, with personal finances dictating what is ideal for the individual.

 

[nihilixm]

In terms of dosage, one's financial situation will ultimately determine what is the most cost-effective. For guys on a lower income who struggle to buy supps, 10-12.5 mg/day is probably best, but for guys who can purchase supps without any financial strain, then I believe 25 mg/day is ideal.

When it comes to DAC, you're going to find a wider dosing range, with income levels having a bigger effect on what dosage someone might find ideal. I think 5 mg/week is a very solid, fairly inexpensive dose, assuming you buy from the right people. Some people charge a LOT more than others--like 2-3X as much in some cases.

Guys on a lower income might find just 2 mg/week more suitable. Those who don't mind spending a little more may want to try 10 mg/week.

Now, results will be significantly better with 10 mg/week vs. 2 mg/week, but even 2 mg/week, when combined with 25 mg of MK/day, can produce some pretty impressive GH and IGF-1 increases for an inexpensive legal supp stack; certainly better than what 3 iu of injectable GH will give you...and for less money.

In conclusion, 2-10 mg/week is a pretty normal range, with personal finances dictating what is ideal for the individual.

thoughts about

25mg mk677 ed
0.5mg cjc w dac ed
50iu lantus ed

on/off every month

Would this be effective in terms of combining "hgh" and slin without having to purchase actual hgh? Idk but hypothetically should be synergistic since theyre all long acting no?

 

[Ocean cool]

Thanks for the info Mike. U are very knowledgeable.

Assuming finance is not an issue and the goal is to have maximum HGH.

Would u recommend (MK + Dac) or (MK + HGH)?

Assuming 25mg MK + 5mg Dac can produce an equivalent of 5iu, what would 25mg MK + 2iu HGH be?

Better?

In terms of dosage, one's financial situation will ultimately determine what is the most cost-effective. For guys on a lower income who struggle to buy supps, 10-12.5 mg/day is probably best, but for guys who can purchase supps without any financial strain, then I believe 25 mg/day is ideal.

When it comes to DAC, you're going to find a wider dosing range, with income levels having a bigger effect on what dosage someone might find ideal. I think 5 mg/week is a very solid, fairly inexpensive dose, assuming you buy from the right people. Some people charge a LOT more than others--like 2-3X as much in some cases.

Guys on a lower income might find just 2 mg/week more suitable. Those who don't mind spending a little more may want to try 10 mg/week.

Now, results will be significantly better with 10 mg/week vs. 2 mg/week, but even 2 mg/week, when combined with 25 mg of MK/day, can produce some pretty impressive GH and IGF-1 increases for an inexpensive legal supp stack; certainly better than what 3 iu of injectable GH will give you...and for less money.

In conclusion, 2-10 mg/week is a pretty normal range, with personal finances dictating what is ideal for the individual.

 

[warlock]

In terms of dosage, one's financial situation will ultimately determine what is the most cost-effective. For guys on a lower income who struggle to buy supps, 10-12.5 mg/day is probably best, but for guys who can purchase supps without any financial strain, then I believe 25 mg/day is ideal.

When it comes to DAC, you're going to find a wider dosing range, with income levels having a bigger effect on what dosage someone might find ideal. I think 5 mg/week is a very solid, fairly inexpensive dose, assuming you buy from the right people. Some people charge a LOT more than others--like 2-3X as much in some cases.

Guys on a lower income might find just 2 mg/week more suitable. Those who don't mind spending a little more may want to try 10 mg/week.

Now, results will be significantly better with 10 mg/week vs. 2 mg/week, but even 2 mg/week, when combined with 25 mg of MK/day, can produce some pretty impressive GH and IGF-1 increases for an inexpensive legal supp stack; certainly better than what 3 iu of injectable GH will give you...and for less money.

In conclusion, 2-10 mg/week is a pretty normal range, with personal finances dictating what is ideal for the individual.

Mike,

If you were to take 2mg of DAC per week, would you split that up throughout the week? A small amount daily?

 

[megarips250]

Like I said in the prior post, neither one cann be proclaimed better than the other without taking into consideration dosage and compound type. That is not my opinion, but a fact. Not to repeat myself, but it seems necessary,so here goes. If someone is using 10 iu of injectable GH, there is no combination of secretagogues is going to match it, but there are plenty of GH secretagogue combos that will kick the shit out of 3 iu of injectable GH...and even 5 iu of injectable GH.

MK-677 and CJC-DAC is one combo that can do so...and we have sen it happen many times with confirmable blood work. Some guys have achieved IGF-1 levels in the freakin' 600's on that combo...which is a LOT higher than what 3-5 iu of injectable GH is going to do for you. Now, that combo isn't necessary cheap, but it isn't anymore expensive than 3 iu of GH a day either.

I would disagree that all pro bodybuilders and coaches think injectable GH is superior in all cases, as quite a few pros and national levels guys (including some on this very board; both pros and National-level guys) have publicly stated that they NO LONGER use injectable GH because they feel secretagogues provide equal or better results at a better price.

Now, these are guys who were using like 3-5 iu of injectable GH per day, NOT 10+ iu daily, so no one is saying that MK and DAC is better than 10 iu of injectable GH. However, when it comes to 3-5 iu of injectable GH, then it is easily possible to achieve better results with that combo. Hell, quite a few guys think just MK alone is better than 3 iu of injectable GH--me included. I've used both many, many times and I barely get any results from 3 iu of GH...and the results are SLOW to come. I just had a guy email me last week telling me that his IGF-1 level reached 385 from taking 2 caps of Somatozine daily (contains 25 mg MK).

In conclusion, nothing can touch high-dose injectable GH, but when using the right secretagogues at the proper dosages, they most certainly can compare to and even exceed low to moderate doses of injectable GH. If using GH and IGF-1 levels as a measure of efficacy, then this statement would be fact, not an opinion. Tons of guys right here on this board have publicly posted their bloodwork results using all sorts of combinations over the years, so we have a pretty good idea of what does what and what combination is comparable to a given dose of injectable GH from a GH and IGF-1 elevation standpoint.

Lastly, several of the best secretagogues available today do not require any more research than injectable GH, nor are they any more difficult to use. For example, your typical MK and DAC combo is usually taken just once per day, at any time during the day. It doesn't get any easier than that.

This was awesome. Thanks bro. Valuable info.