GHRP-6 / CJC 1295 experience

[BigTex]

How much time to absorb do you give the test base transdermal before your workout. Do you mix it in pure DMSO? What concentration?

Thanks

99% pure DMSO. The most common sold. I mix maybe a 1/2 teaspoon with 50mg of test base. Rub it in the muscle I am training about 30 minutes before I train. I can feel it in the body maybe 30 sec to 1 minute after rubbing it in. This method is very quick.

 

[shawood1969]

hey big tex you mentioned that guys waste a lot of money on hgh in how they use it. You said the best way was to use hgh and supplement it. Can you give an example of the protocol.

 

[BigTex]

hey big tex you mentioned that guys waste a lot of money on hgh in how they use it. You said the best way was to use hgh and supplement it. Can you give an example of the protocol.

It's not so much waste money as the HGH can be used more economically. More bang for the buck so to speak. Here is how.....I know many that are using quality grade HGH at 5-7iu/day. They can't even tolerate any more that that. They take the same HGH at 2iu/d and combine it with p.ep.tides.

morning -
1iu HGH
100 GHRP/100 GRF

Noon - 100 GHRP/100 GRF

Post bed time -
1iu HGH
100 GHRP/100 GRF

Splitting the HGH dose up between morning and evening keep the steady blood levels through out the day/night and the p.ep.tides in between create massive pulses of natural GH. I know a couple of guys who had to even drop the post bed time dose of HGH and just do 2iu in the morning because they could not sleep. I know others that have had to drop the GHRP at night because of hunger issues and add ipamorelin. So you can play around with this and find what works best. But by combining p.ep.tides to stimulate a natural pulse of GH with the synthetic effects of rHGH you will be better results and more bang for you buck with that expensive GH you just bought.

 

[shawood1969]

great info will try it out. Only thing I was wondering is if you do gh at bedtime would it disrupt your normal release at night?

 

[BigTex]

I dont think so...theyre not comparable...actually AAS blows peptides out of the water if muscle gains are what you are after. I actually don't bother with peptides while I'm on, especially now that I am running 600-700mg...I get telltale signs of high IGF levels and all I inject is TESTOSTERONE!

I save the peptides for when I am off!

PsyT, I have been using steroids for about 35 years now, LARGE amounts and smaller. There is a whole lot of hype about what steroids do IMHO. I get good results from them but it is mostly because the enable me to push myself even harder than I already do. While HGH and peptides are NOT testosterone they are excellent tools to have in the build for building size and strength.

Aside from some fake rhesus monkey GH I used back in the 80's. I never used HGH again until the 2000's. I have seen a complete change in the way my body is shaped since adding this to the equation. Combined with testosterone HGH and peptides work very well. IMHO, if you are just using this stuff when you are off steroids the you are missing out on a lot of growth.

For instance......with testosterone, equipose and tren I added IGF-1 Lr3 to the mix. In less than 3 weeks I added 1 pound of muscle and lost 2 pounds of body fat. Couldn't have done that using steroids alone in that length of time. Peptides and high GH levels make it possible to increase ligament strength and aid in quicker recovery. Very important in how quickly you can go back to the gym and hits the weight. At 57 years old, I still train VERY heavy in all my lifts and hit the gym 6 days a week. I have never taken a week off since I had knee surgery when I was a powerlifter.

To me, you guys that take time off steroids and take time off training are the ones who are making big mistakes. It's kind of like taking 1 step forward and two steps back. I am never "off." I use 600mg of test undeconate year round. I also use HCG year round. I add other steroids in 8 week cycles. Sort of a blast and cruise effect. I make steady gains and don't ever have to worry about playing with PCT chems hoping I can find the right combination to avoid losing all I had worked for in the past 10-12 weeks.

Peptides work, vitamins work, anabolic steroids work, insulin works....are any one of them the key to optimal growth? Nope, but you can't argue they all when used together will help you get there.

 

[BigTex]

great info will try it out. Only thing I was wondering is if you do gh at bedtime would it disrupt your normal release at night?

Yes, it will but the p.eptides will counter act that by forcing the pulse. Like I said, I know two guys who get better results as far as unwanted sides by avoiding the night time GH injection and just go with the p.eptides instead.


Holy shit.....wonder why the hell the word "p.eptide" gets deleted by this board?

 

[shawood1969]

what is your dosing of your test. 600/wk or /mo?

 

[RamboStallone]

So in your opinion is using cjc1295 dac better then ghrp/mod combo? I am currently running hex/mod am and prewo, and ipam/mod prebed. I am getting good results so far but I feel like a constant release of gh would be better then these pulses. The whole gh bleed argument imo is BS after doing some research on results from ppls experiences, etc. I have been thinking and reading alot and wondering about switching. Also the constant pinning is a pita especially remembering to take them lol my memory is crap sometimes.

Want your take on it, would appreciate it from a veteran like yourself!

Regards,
Rambo

 

[BigTex]

what is your dosing of your test. 600/wk or /mo?

SHIT! I didn't clarify that. It is 600/month

So in your opinion is using cjc1295 dac better then ghrp/mod combo? I am currently running hex/mod am and prewo, and ipam/mod prebed. I am getting good results so far but I feel like a constant release of gh would be better then these pulses. The whole gh bleed argument imo is BS after doing some research on results from ppls experiences, etc. I have been thinking and reading alot and wondering about switching. Also the constant pinning is a pita especially remembering to take them lol my memory is crap sometimes.

Want your take on it, would appreciate it from a veteran like yourself!

Regards,
Rambo

I think the CJC w/DAC is very similar to doing just HGH. I did combine the CJC w/ DAC with modified GRF and GHRP-2 but only after training. This to me would be like combing the effects of HGH and p.eptides. You are getting a constant supply of GH plus a big extra pulse.

What I do also believe is that for women, CJC w/DAC may even be better since their normal GH patterns are more of a constant release and less peaks and valleys. I know of several women who have gotten much better fat loss using it. My wife has yet to give it a try.

Like you I fell for this GH bleed stuff too but I also have been hearing some very positive things from guys I trust. So i gave it a try. The only thing that holds me back from doing more is the cost.

Yea, the constant pinning thing gets me too. Some times I can't remember what I have done and when was the last time.

 

[RamboStallone]

SHIT! I didn't clarify that. It is 600/month




I think the CJC w/DAC is very similar to doing just HGH. I did combine the CJC w/ DAC with modified GRF and GHRP-2 but only after training. This to me would be like combing the effects of HGH and p.eptides. You are getting a constant supply of GH plus a big extra pulse.

What I do also believe is that for women, CJC w/DAC may even be better since their normal GH patterns are more of a constant release and less peaks and valleys. I know of several women who have gotten much better fat loss using it. My wife has yet to give it a try.

Like you I fell for this GH bleed stuff too but I also have been hearing some very positive things from guys I trust. So i gave it a try. The only thing that holds me back from doing more is the cost.

Yea, the constant pinning thing gets me too. Some times I can't remember what I have done and when was the last time.

Yes I can see how it is similar to running exogenous hgh, but doesn't exogenous hgh spike a few hours later then fall off. I don't think it's a constant level. What I dislike about the ghrps is there is desensitization whether noticed or not and I feel that over time more is needed for the same effects. Ghrh don't seem to have this problem.

As far as cjc1295 dac, I am thinking to run it at 2mgs a week split into two doses one on monday one on thursday. That's a vial a week. Superiorpeptides always has a bogo going on it seems, so I figure by 10 get 10 free and you got yourself a 20 week supply. At around $45 a vial l, thats $450 for 20 weeks, way cheaper then exo hgh.

I know what you mean, I also pin the am shot then 10 mims later forget if that was today or yesterday lol. I think there has been times I pinned twice or not at all...

 

[BigTex]

Yes I can see how it is similar to running exogenous hgh, but doesn't exogenous hgh spike a few hours later then fall off. I don't think it's a constant level. What I dislike about the ghrps is there is desensitization whether noticed or not and I feel that over time more is needed for the same effects. Ghrh don't seem to have this problem.

As far as cjc1295 dac, I am thinking to run it at 2mgs a week split into two doses one on monday one on thursday. That's a vial a week. Superiorpeptides always has a bogo going on it seems, so I figure by 10 get 10 free and you got yourself a 20 week supply. At around $45 a vial l, thats $450 for 20 weeks, way cheaper then exo hgh.

I know what you mean, I also pin the am shot then 10 mims later forget if that was today or yesterday lol. I think there has been times I pinned twice or not at all...

Well the levels are constant as long as the HGH is in your blood stream. The half-lift of HGH is about 2-3 hours. So yes, it peaks and starts falling off. Half the amount is in the blood after 2-3 hours and after about 6 hours you are back to baseline. Which is why many have gone to doing 2-3 injections of HGH per day. The difference between that and say the modified GRF/GHRP is the GH pulse they cause is gone after about 30 minutes.

Now the CJC w/DAC provides a type of GH bleed that keeps the GH levels pretty constant for 7-8 days. I am personally thinking that could be superior to HGH. Especially with women. I didn't get the same sides with the CJC w/dac either.

I pay can about $230 for good Kefeis so that is 100iu per kit, so that is about $2.30/iu. If you are using say 6iu/d that comes to about $13.80/day x 7 = $96.60/wk. So you pay about $45/wk for the CJC 1295 w/dac and probably get the same results. Plus, I have tried HGH o many times and I just can't do it. I am very sensitive to even small amounts and get bad bloating which doesn't go away and insulin sensitivity which leads to fat gains. So for me there is no other option.

I agree with you and dividing the dose up to two a week. I also put about 1/2 mg of BW in it so there would not be as much liquid to inject.

RamboStallone, I am not sure there has ever been any desensitization shown with GHRP's at saturation level doses. What you are probably noticing is the body adjusting to side effects which happens quickly. The hunger effect, flushing etc are all side effects. As you get use to the pe.ptide these sides effects are not as noticeable and even subside. I have been on GHRP/GRF for 6-7 years and have not taken a break. Still am able to keep low BF levels and do not really watch what I eat.

Hey, another thing about p.petides. I have never gotten bogus peptides in the time I have been doing them. I have gotten fucked on HGH more than once. It is VERY hard to find a good source for HGH. I was able to get good Hyges for a while, then they were bad. So why bother?

 

[RamboStallone]

Well the levels are constant as long as the HGH is in your blood stream. The half-lift of HGH is about 2-3 hours. So yes, it peaks and starts falling off. Half the amount is in the blood after 2-3 hours and after about 6 hours you are back to baseline. Which is why many have gone to doing 2-3 injections of HGH per day. The difference between that and say the modified GRF/GHRP is the GH pulse they cause is gone after about 30 minutes.

Understand. I have not used hgh because I don't trust any of it being real with all the fakes floating around and the price to benefits ratio is not worth it to me right now.

I am starting to believe that the 30 mins is not enoguh to reap the true benefits of hgh. While they do work and results are seen with the ghrp/ghrh combination, I am thinking cjc1295 dac may be superior to them, especially in the shorter run. With the spikes, you need more spikes and a longer duration in my opinion.

Now the CJC w/DAC provides a type of GH bleed that keeps the GH levels pretty constant for 7-8 days. I am personally thinking that could be superior to HGH. Especially with women. I didn't get the same sides with the CJC w/dac either.

I am starting to believe this as well. I don't believe the argument that women need the constant gh release and men only need the spikes. To me it has been proven that constant gh in a males body reaps the most benefits aka exogenous gh injected 2-3 times in the system. If it works that way, why not work the same or even better with the natural gh?

What sides did you not notice with the cjcdac?

I pay can about $230 for good Kefeis so that is 100iu per kit, so that is about $2.30/iu. If you are using say 6iu/d that comes to about $13.80/day x 7 = $96.60/wk. So you pay about $45/wk for the CJC 1295 w/dac and probably get the same results. Plus, I have tried HGH o many times and I just can't do it. I am very sensitive to even small amounts and get bad bloating which doesn't go away and insulin sensitivity which leads to fat gains. So for me there is no other option.

I agree with you and dividing the dose up to two a week. I also put about 1/2 mg of BW in it so there would not be as much liquid to inject.

RamboStallone, I am not sure there has ever been any desensitization shown with GHRP's at saturation level doses. What you are probably noticing is the body adjusting to side effects which happens quickly. The hunger effect, flushing etc are all side effects. As you get use to the pe.ptide these sides effects are not as noticeable and even subside. I have been on GHRP/GRF for 6-7 years and have not taken a break. Still am able to keep low BF levels and do not really watch what I eat.

Hey, another thing about p.petides. I have never gotten bogus peptides in the time I have been doing them. I have gotten fucked on HGH more than once. It is VERY hard to find a good source for HGH. I was able to get good Hyges for a while, then they were bad. So why bother?

What I was referring to was mainly people have to go above the saturation doses to see better benefits and studies have proven desensitization is there. With CJC DAC, I don't believe any occurs even at higher dosages.

I agree on the hgh, too many fakes and at a high price its not worth getting ripped off! Pepetides are cheap and therefore there is no reason to fake them unless someone is really a true scammer.

 

[Ms00camaro]

BigTex! I'm looking to run some new gear. I've been off and on test and peptides for years now. I've done a lot of different combos of things actually to the point where I can't remember what differnet combos I did. What do you suggest in regards to running a test and peptides. Not
Trying to waist my money and time anymore haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BigTex]

BigTex! I'm looking to run some new gear. I've been off and on test and peptides for years now. I've done a lot of different combos of things actually to the point where I can't remember what differnet combos I did. What do you suggest in regards to running a test and peptides. Not
Trying to waist my money and time anymore haha

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just sent you a PM but I found a better list for you. Anyway the best rule of thumb is for ever more androgenic drug your run add a more anabolic drug. So Test and Primo work well together.

AS for test and p.eptides, it all depends on your particular goals and age. I think young people can handle and need much more than older guys and gals. I take 600mg of test undeconate per month. This is a very long acting steroid so it is about the equivalent to 150mg of enanthate/wk. It seems to be working well as my base. When I go into my blast phase I just add to this. So I add an more anabolic drug and maybe something equal in properties.

P.eptides are the same, depending on your goal as how much to use. If you just want to add quality of life because you are older and GH levels have diminished, then a bed time dose is great. If you are trying to grow and cut fat then 3 x/d is good. With the p.eptides, the standard modified GRF 1-9 and GHRP of your choice is a great bet.

 

[BigTex]

Understand. I have not used hgh because I don't trust any of it being real with all the fakes floating around and the price to benefits ratio is not worth it to me right now.

And why bother when anyone who has ever seriously done peptides can tell you they give very good results at much less of a price.

I am starting to believe that the 30 mins is not enoguh to reap the true benefits of hgh. While they do work and results are seen with the ghrp/ghrh combination, I am thinking cjc1295 dac may be superior to them, especially in the shorter run. With the spikes, you need more spikes and a longer duration in my opinion.

30 minutes is more than enough if you are after huge pulses. Pulses are more inline with how the body reacts. You can get the same amount of GH in a day with 3 injections or GRF/GHRP as you can 2-3iu of GH.

However, that being said, adding a continuous bleed may even be more of a benefit to growth. Especially if you add the pulsing effect of GRF and GHRP to it. And you may be absolutely right RamboStallone CJC w/DAC may be superior. So many of us have fallen for this GH bleed thing as being bad that we have not been willing to give this stuff a try. I was turned on to the idea by a friend in France who said all the big guys in Europe are using CJC 1295 w/DAC and Seremorelin to pulse. I recently gave in and tried.

What sides did you not notice with the cjcdac?

After a week I started felling the tell tale carpal tunnel symptoms with pain in the wrists. Just like with HGH or even high doses or GRF/GHRP. I did not feel lethargic like I do with the others.

What I was referring to was mainly people have to go above the saturation doses to see better benefits and studies have proven desensitization is there. With CJC DAC, I don't believe any occurs even at higher dosages.

I found in my research that as you dose above saturation levels benefits decrease and side effects increase. When I got over 200mcg it was very noticeable. By 300-400mcg I got nothing but unwanted sides and went back to saturation levels. Now ipamorelin do not do this. I personally think you need to do a LOT of ipamorelin to get good benefits. Maybe 1mg. Now the other problem with the GHRPs and doing over saturation is the chance that cortisol and prolactin levels will increase dose related. At saturation levels this will not happen.

 

[BigTex]

Forgot your list Ms00camaro:


Compound:---------------------------------Androgenic------Anabolic
1-Testosterone------------------------------------100------200
Anabolicum Vister(Quinbolone)(oral Boldenone)--------50------100
Anadrol 50(Oxymetholone)---------------------------45------320
Anadur(Nandrolone Hexyloxyphenylpropionate)---------37-----125
Anatrofin(Stenbolone Acetate)------------------107-144-----267-332
Anavar(Oxandrolone)--------------------------------24------322-630
Andractim(Dihydrotestosteron)-------------------30-260-----60-220
Andriol(Testosterone Undecanoate)-----------------100------100
Androderm(Testosterone)---------------------------100------100
Androgel(Testosterone)-----------------------------100------100
Boldabol(Boldenone Acetate)-------------------------50------100
Cheque Drops(Mibolerone)-------------------------1,800------4,100
Danocrine(Danazol)----------------------------------37------125
Deca-Durabolin(Nandrolone Decanoate)---------------37------125
Deposterona(Testosterone Blend)-------------------100------100
Dianabol(Methandrostenolone)--------------------40-60------90-210
Dimethyltrienolone------------------------------10,000+-----10,000+
Dinandrol(Nandrolone Blend)--------------------------37------125
Durabolin(NPP)--------------------------------------37------125
Dynabol(Nandrolone Cypionate)----------------------37------125
Equipoise(Boldenone Undecylenate)------------------50------100
Esiclene(Formebolone)----------------------------No Data Available
Genabol(Norbolethone)------------------------------17------350
Halotestin(Fluoxymesterone)-----------------------850------1,900
Hydroxytestosterone--------------------------------25------65
Laurabolin(Nandrolone Laurate)----------------------37------125
Madol(Desoxymethyltestosterone)------------------187------1,200
Masteron(Drostanolone Propionate)---------------25-40------62-130
Megagrisevit-Mono(Clostebol Acetate)---------------25------46
MENT(Methylnortestosterone Acetate)--------------650------2,300
Mestanolone-----------------------------------78-254------107
Methandriol(Mythelandrostenediol)----------------30-60------20-60
Methyl-1-Testosterone------------------------100-220------910-1,600
Methyldienolone-------------------------------200-300------1,000
Methylhydroxynandrolone(MHN)---------------------281------1304
Methyltestosterone-----------------------------94-130------115-150
Metribolone(Methyltrienolone)---------------6,000-7,000------12,000-30,000
Miotolan(Furazabol)------------------------------73-94------270-330
Myagen(Bolasterone)-------------------------------300------575
Nilevar(Norethandrolone)-------------------------22-55------100-200
Omnadren(Testosterone Blend)---------------------100------100
Orabolin(Ethylestrenol)--------------------------20-400------200-400
Oral Turinabol------------------------------------None------100+
Oranabol(Oxymesterone)----------------------------50------330
Orgasteron(Normethandrolone)-----------------325-580------110-125
Parabolan(Tren Hexahydrobenzycarbonate)----------500------500
Primobolan(Methenolone Acetate)-----------------44-57------88
Primobolan Depot(Methenolone Enanthate)--------44-57------88
Prostanozol----------------------------------------n/a------n/a
Protabol(Thiomesterone)----------------------------61------456
Proviron(Mesterolone)---------------------------30-40------100-150
Sanabolicum(Nandrolone Cyclohexylpropionate)------37------125
Steranabol Ritardo(Oxabolone Cypionate)---------20-60------50-90
Superdrol(Methyldrostanolone)---------------------400------20
Sustanon 100 & 250-------------------------------100------100
Synovex(Testosterone Propionate & Estradiol)-------100------100
Test 400------------------------------------------100------100
Test Enanthate/Cypionate/Propionate/Susp & Blends-100------100
THG(Tetrahydrogestrinone)-----------------------No Data Available
Tren Acetate/Enanthate & Blends-------------------500------500
Winstrol(Stanozolol)---------------------------------30------320

 

[RamboStallone]

And why bother when anyone who has ever seriously done peptides can tell you they give very good results at much less of a price.



30 minutes is more than enough if you are after huge pulses. Pulses are more inline with how the body reacts. You can get the same amount of GH in a day with 3 injections or GRF/GHRP as you can 2-3iu of GH.

However, that being said, adding a continuous bleed may even be more of a benefit to growth. Especially if you add the pulsing effect of GRF and GHRP to it. And you may be absolutely right RamboStallone CJC w/DAC may be superior. So many of us have fallen for this GH bleed thing as being bad that we have not been willing to give this stuff a try. I was turned on to the idea by a friend in France who said all the big guys in Europe are using CJC 1295 w/DAC and Seremorelin to pulse. I recently gave in and tried.



After a week I started felling the tell tale carpal tunnel symptoms with pain in the wrists. Just like with HGH or even high doses or GRF/GHRP. I did not feel lethargic like I do with the others.



I found in my research that as you dose above saturation levels benefits decrease and side effects increase. When I got over 200mcg it was very noticeable. By 300-400mcg I got nothing but unwanted sides and went back to saturation levels. Now ipamorelin do not do this. I personally think you need to do a LOT of ipamorelin to get good benefits. Maybe 1mg. Now the other problem with the GHRPs and doing over saturation is the chance that cortisol and prolactin levels will increase dose related. At saturation levels this will not happen.

Thanks for the input from someone who has used both gh and peptides.

So from cjcdac you got the carpal tunnel symptoms but not the lethargy?

The ghrp/ghrh combo has given me all these symptoms which are not bad. The one that bothered me most was the sleepiness in the day time, I would fall asleep at work during meetings and driving home in traffic!!!

I'm starting to overcome it slowly and staying mostly awake. If I can avoid this lethargic feeling with cjcdac thts even another perk to switch.

 

[BigTex]

RamboStallone, I just ran across this study. It seems to be relevant to me because it has been said that that the GH bleeding effect of CJC 1295 would interfere with the natural GH pulse waves. Obviously from this study the natural pulse waves still happen but the CJC just overall increased the GH secretion over all by 46% and mean IGF-1 levels by 45%.


Ionescu M, Frohman LA. Pulsatile secretion of growth hormone (GH) persists during continuous stimulation by CJC-1295, a long-acting GH-releasing hormone analog. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Dec;91(12):4792-7.

Abstract

CONTEXT: Pulsatile GH secretion is considered important for many of the hormone's physiological effects. Short-term GHRH infusions enhance GH pulsatility and increase IGF-I, but the short GHRH half-life limits its therapeutic use. A synthetic GHRH analog (CJC-1295) that binds permanently to endogenous albumin after injection (half-life = 8 d) stimulates GH and IGF-I secretion in several animal species and in normal human subjects and enhances growth in rats.

OBJECTIVE: Our objective was to assess GH pulsatility after a single injection of CJC-1295 and determine which GH secretion parameters correlated to the increase in IGF-I production.

METHODS: GH pulsatility was assessed by 20-min blood sampling during an overnight 12-h period in healthy 20- to 40-yr-old men before and 1 wk after injection of either 60 or 90 microg/kg CJC-1295.

RESULTS: GH secretion was increased after CJC-1295 administration with preserved pulsatility. The frequency and magnitude of GH secretory pulses were unaltered. However, basal (trough) GH levels were markedly increased (7.5-fold; P < 0.0001) and contributed to an overall increase in GH secretion (mean GH levels, 46%; P < 0.01) and IGF-I levels (45%; P < 0.001). No significant differences were observed between the responses to the two drug doses. The IGF-I increases did not correlate with any parameters of GH secretion.

CONCLUSIONS: CJC-1295 increased trough and mean GH secretion and IGF-I production with preserved GH pulsatility. The marked enhancement of trough GH levels by continuous GHRH stimulation implicates the importance of this effect on increasing IGF-I. Long-acting GHRH preparations may have clinical utility in patients with intact pituitary GH secretory capability.
​

 

[RamboStallone]

GH pulsatility was assessed by 20-min blood sampling during an overnight 12-h period in healthy 20- to 40-yr-old men before and 1 wk after injection of either 60 or 90 microg/kg CJC-1295.
[/INDENT]

That's a large dose they took. I weigh 84kgs, that would mean I'd have to take 5-8mgs a week to reach the same results. But they only did this for one week, so maybe a smaller dose of 2mgs a week overtime may increase levels just as much.

 

[BigTex]

That's a large dose they took. I weigh 84kgs, that would mean I'd have to take 5-8mgs a week to reach the same results. But they only did this for one week, so maybe a smaller dose of 2mgs a week overtime may increase levels just as much.

I agree, however notice that there were two different doses used.......the percentages did not differ with the two doses. Most I know are using 2mg/wk split in two doses. I think that will give the same benefits especially if you add say GHRP-2 x2-3/day to give bigger pulses.

The most important thing of this study is 1) there are some sizable GH and IGF-1 levels and 2) Natural pulsing was not effected. So shorter acting pe.ptides can aide by adding more huge GH pulses. High blood levels of GH combined with big pulses.