Golden Era BBers...so many assumptions

[BA69]

I was replying to a thread, when I thought this would be good discussion...

First off, I don't understand this idea of golden era bbers not using Tren. It was available. Also, they had some of the best pharmaceuticals (complete with patented drug delivery systems) readily available at cheap prices. If some of you think they didn't use as much as possible you are kidding yourselves. Just knowing how driven Arnold is, do any of you doubt for a second that he didn't take EVERYTHING under the sun? Tren was available in the 70's. Great drug with sometimes intolerable side effects... Nothing dramatic. I'd venture to say that there is hardly much difference in the AAS doses used in the 70-80's vs now. Ancillaries are much more available now. Nutrition and training have evolved. The "science" of bodybuilding has evolved as well.

Game changers are hGH, Insulin and real receptor grade IGF 1(This came later on, Gropep) and site enhancing oils. AAS dose has pretty much leveled off for years. What benefits do you really get from let's say going over 3,000mg per week without the use of GH? Not much.

If you think Frank Zane used less drugs than Franco Columbo, etc... You can never make that claim, it's ridiculous. Your dose is not proportional to the way you look. It's not a linear equation. Bone structure, receptor affinity, genetics play a huge role, followed by training/nutrition which I'm beginning to see play a much smaller role than I initially thought. To add more confusion to the mix, the quality of your drugs also plays a huge role...too many variables to make claims that so and so is on more stuff than so and so.

Maybe the golden era bbers did not train in an optimal way. Maybe Arnold's delts and legs would have been larger if he had backed off the weights and used isolation exercises...

In closing, Frank Zane ain't shit, I don't beleive he looked the way he did because of conservative drug doses.

 

[TheAnabolicFreak]

In closing, Frank Zane ain't shit, I don't beleive he looked the way he did because of conservative drug doses.

Zane is on Facebook. Lets ask him. But then again he could give a BS answer like most of these guys do about how all he took was 2 dbols and 200 mgs of deca a week lol.

 

[Achilles-reborn]

Interesting post

I don’t doubt they took everything that was available to them. HGH being the big difference between now and then. Also I think most would agree what Arnold did would probably be considered Over Training by today’s standards, but honestly I don’t think Arnold wanted to be any bigger. His build was at the top of the game then and I bet that most today would agree the man was near esthetically perfect in his prime and would still be considered an elite Physique today.I know I’d be among them.

 

[Tom]

i was around in the 70's. i can tell you in my area the cycles were 8 weeks of deca and dbol....rarely someone would throw anavar in too. the doses were 200 mgs per week deca and 3 dbol per day. no way in hell were guys taking the amounts you see today....no way.

 

[TheAnabolicFreak]

i was around in the 70's. i can tell you in my area the cycles were 8 weeks of deca and dbol....rarely someone would throw anavar in too. the doses were 200 mgs per week deca and 3 dbol per day. no way in hell were guys taking the amounts you see today....no way.

Plus no PCT (Clomid or HCG) when they came off either. Plus back then they trained abs 3 times a day to lose their gut and did dumbbell pullovers to expand their ribcages and didnt eat fat because it makes them fat lol. We have come a long way.

 

[comedycentral]

even in the early 90's here in the UK everybody used deca/dbol. never test and now and again oxy50's but not massive dose and usually 8 weeks on then several months off

 

[ConanX]

Plus no PCT (Clomid or HCG) when they came off either. Plus back then they trained abs 3 times a day to lose their gut and did dumbbell pullovers to expand their ribcages and didnt eat fat because it makes them fat lol. We have come a long way.

Have we? They're thin waist lines or at least the illusion of them, gave them the aesthetically pleasing look while still being muscular and rock solid. Honestly, I prefer the look of the 70's guys and 80's guys way over what we have today in the insulin era.

But I do agree with you that we know A LOT more than these guys ever dreamed of knowing.

 

[BA69]

You guys talking about gymrat cycles with 200mg Deca etc... sure, I'm not denying that... But what were the pros of the time using? You guys are referencing PRO physiques when talking about the golden era, nobody is talking about the local gymrat in the 70's using 200mg deca...I think it is irrelevant to this discussion.

I think all pros across the different eras had similar mindsets; do what it takes to win. Back then, nobody knew if you would drop dead if using 2.5g of Test a week, until more and more guys pushed the enveloppe. I guess my point is you cannot tell me that Arnold or any of the pros used less gear than the average gymrat today. They used as much as they felt was safe and whatever MAXIMAL protocol was available back then.

IMO, golden era is the 90's. I do agree that today's pros do not inspire me in anyway and it starting to look like a real freak show.

 

[SlimyToodleTot]

I just get tired of the old school guys, like Frank Zane, always bashing today's BBilders and saying, "today it doesn't even look healthy. It's not aesthetically pleasing. It has morphed into something unhealthy looking." These guys wouldn't stand a chance next to the pure mass of someone like Cutler. So they talk all this shit, yet here they are at the events selling their leg blaster machines, magazine, and supplements. Frank Zane said his personal best was squatting 325 for 20. Those are really light weights for someone at that level. Even I can do more than that. The Game has straight up passed these guys and they know it. Arnold would rather talk about cigars than bodybuilding. Frank Zane is still cut, he's just little. That was then, this is now. Don't talk a bunch of smack if your primary source of income is from this sport. You're just putting down the business as a whole by doing that.

 

[aussiebulldog]

We have come a long way.

come a long way to a sport that only top 10 in world make decent money?
to a sport that shows make money out of fees?
when was the last bodybuilder you saw as a star of a film?
when was the last non negative media cover?

in the past there was a feeling that this will be the biggest thing....
lack of direction lead us to where it is today.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Frank Zane

i was around in the 70's. i can tell you in my area the cycles were 8 weeks of deca and dbol....rarely someone would throw anavar in too. the doses were 200 mgs per week deca and 3 dbol per day. no way in hell were guys taking the amounts you see today....no way.

Frank Zane was always shredded.....he bulked up once in a while and what a site! HE was HUGE.......believe it!

 

[Bio]

I was replying to a thread, when I thought this would be good discussion...

First off, I don't understand this idea of golden era bbers not using Tren. It was available. Also, they had some of the best pharmaceuticals (complete with patented drug delivery systems) readily available at cheap prices. If some of you think they didn't use as much as possible you are kidding yourselves. Just knowing how driven Arnold is, do any of you doubt for a second that he didn't take EVERYTHING under the sun? Tren was available in the 70's. Great drug with sometimes intolerable side effects... Nothing dramatic. I'd venture to say that there is hardly much difference in the AAS doses used in the 70-80's vs now. Ancillaries are much more available now. Nutrition and training have evolved. The "science" of bodybuilding has evolved as well.

Game changers are hGH, Insulin and real receptor grade IGF 1(This came later on, Gropep) and site enhancing oils. AAS dose has pretty much leveled off for years. What benefits do you really get from let's say going over 3,000mg per week without the use of GH? Not much.

If you think Frank Zane used less drugs than Franco Columbo, etc... You can never make that claim, it's ridiculous. Your dose is not proportional to the way you look. It's not a linear equation. Bone structure, receptor affinity, genetics play a huge role, followed by training/nutrition which I'm beginning to see play a much smaller role than I initially thought. To add more confusion to the mix, the quality of your drugs also plays a huge role...too many variables to make claims that so and so is on more stuff than so and so.

Maybe the golden era bbers did not train in an optimal way. Maybe Arnold's delts and legs would have been larger if he had backed off the weights and used isolation exercises...

In closing, Frank Zane ain't shit, I don't beleive he looked the way he did because of conservative drug doses.

I think steroid dosages have increased over time. I don't believe that Arnold used "everything under the sun" or that bodybuilders from the 70's and 80's used the dosages that we're seeing today. By some accounts, today's Pro's use anywhere from 3 to 5 grams.

I don't understand the reason for your last comment, "In closing, Frank Zane aint shit". Seems a little harsh.

Anyway, there have been many threads like this over time and they are nothing more than speculation. The result will be many opinions without any real evidence.

 

[Elvia1023]

Everyone has different beliefs/opinions and perfect physiques. But I find it funny how some minds operate. So many say Frank Zane was rubbish and small etc. No he wasn't. Get that same ripped Frank Zane and throw a fair dose of dbol and food and have him bulky in a matter of weeks and those same people would look at him and say how good he looked. Sure he wasn't my ideal either but some people really get confused with 20 pounds of water retention.

 

[turbobusa]

i was around in the 70's. i can tell you in my area the cycles were 8 weeks of deca and dbol....rarely someone would throw anavar in too. the doses were 200 mgs per week deca and 3 dbol per day. no way in hell were guys taking the amounts you see today....no way.

Not just gym rat dosages I agree. I know there were guys that took much more but it still wasn't close to what is happening now.
I hear some of the dosages that the gym rats someone mentioned use today
in the places I train. I look at the degree of development and I can only think no way this little guy is slammin all that! I know the pros took much more than what Tom is describing but it is still much less than what the average is today. I think tom was referring to local guys and not sayI.E. up and coming and quickly disappearing Gunnar Rosbo. Way too much emphasis on aas/ergos
instead of the main ingredients. Just my .2 T

 

[BA69]

I think steroid dosages have increased over time. I don't believe that Arnold used "everything under the sun" or that bodybuilders from the 70's and 80's used the dosages that we're seeing today. By some accounts, today's Pro's use anywhere from 3 to 5 grams.

I don't understand the reason for your last comment, "In closing, Frank Zane aint shit". Seems a little harsh.

Anyway, there have been many threads like this over time and they are nothing more than speculation. The result will be many opinions without any real evidence.

The Zane comment was initially meant to be humorous, but it didn't turn out that way. I agree it was harsh. Many have used Frank Zane as an example of someone who used a moderate dose of AAS and acheived a perfectly symmetrical physique...etc What I'm suggesting is that we have no idea what he was really using. We don't know how he responds to juice..etc. He was a Mr Olympia and I don't beleive he did any less than the other competitors. His small waist, pleasing lines etc are a function of his shape, bone structure and genetics. Gear use is secondary.

My close friend GB uses about 1500-2000mg of homebrewed AAS per week and he is 180lbs, ultra low bf and extremely symmetrical, nice lines, reminds me of Frank Zane. He has a very small bone structure, and when he came off for a couple of years, he weighed 140lbs, cut to the bone. He would eat 2 meals a day, one consisting of Mcdonald's. Then we have another mutual friend who reached a fairly solid 260lbs after two baby cycles, first one was 375mg Sust per week, next one was 500mg Test + 300mg Tren per week. All this at the age of twenty-one. (He became a drug addict unfortunately and now walks around at 170lbs, but that's a different story) If you saw him, you would think he was on a heavy stack for a very low time, he was even squatting over 5 plates a side for 6-7 reps. His potential was huge.

I don't think you can necessarily judge how much someone is using and I think it is irrelevant. Comparing AAS doses between different people is just pointless and doesn't prove much. You have to find out what works for you.

 

[mikennrg]

Frank Zane said his personal best was squatting 325 for 20. Those are really light weights for someone at that level. Even I can do more than that.

Let's see some video. That's not light if you're going deep.

 

[mikennrg]

I see the big dudes in my gym walking around more than training and taking 5 minutes or more between "light pumping sets". With that mindset today I'm not surprised people can't believe what can be achieved with less. Lower your dosage and increase your intensity in the gym.

 

[Elvia1023]

I agree BA69. Genetics seperates everyone... everyone is different. Diet dictates everything too. Many look at the huge muscular guy and think he is drugged up and he may be on 500mg test e. Whilst others may look at the small and ripped guy thinking he would look much better if he just blasted some aas... when in reality he is on 700mg tren a and 300mg test with 100mg avar per day. It is what it is.

But I would rather just worry about what I am taking. So many are miles above me and some aren't. But yeah I have felt better about my progress recently seeing some of the doses people take and what they think they need to be their current size.

 

[Elvia1023]

Let's see some video. That's not light if you're going deep.

Exactly. Going slow and very deep you might as well have another 200 pounds on there the difference in effort needed. But you still get people looking over thinking why is he struggling... so obsessed with weight.

 

[thatbloke]

who cares, they looked awesome and had great physiques

most guys on here couldnt build there physiques even with huge amounts of AAS use