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I got some bloodwork done b/c I wanted to check my liver values. I've been on 2500mg Depakote for about 2 years now for mood stabilization and it took a toll on my liver enzymes as its pretty liver toxic. Normally my alt and ast would be around 50ish range each which is a tad higher than normal but very common and normal for athletes and bodybuilders. So with depakote my liver values as of 7/25 were:
Total bilirubin .6 range 0-1.2 NORMAL
LDH 222 range 121-224(on higher end)
Ast 62 range 0-40 HIGH
alt 103 range 0-44 HIGH
GGT 24 range 0-65 GOOD
Alkaline phosphate 31 range 39-117 LOW
These results are after my normal liver protocol which is:
3tabs 3x per day liv 52
600mg milk thistle 3x per day
Tduca 250mg 3x per day
Artichoke extract 500mg 2x per day
ALA 300mg 2-3x per day
Acetyl L-Carnitine 500mg 2-3x per day
So i decided I wanted to switch meds and talked with my dr. He said enzymes like alt and ast are not important at all unless they are extremely high like in the 300's and that the true test for your liver is bilirubin and GGT which I have good #'s in. I also had an ultrasound done and showed no liver damage at all but it was just a little bit fatty but still normal. I still insisted that I wanted to try something else non liver toxic. So he put me on lamical instead which is non liver toxic. So basically Aug1st his protocol for me was to drop depakote to 2000mg and add 25mg lamictal then 2weeks later drop depkote from 2000 to 1500 and add 50mg lamictal then a week later 500mg depakote and 100mg lamical and a week later stay on 500mg depakote and do real dose of lamictal which is 200mg/day. So basically my liver should have been improving each week and the past 2weeks I have only been on 500mg depakote which shouldnt effect liver much at all. Ok so now to the MK677 and how this relates.
The only changes I have made since my previous blood test in July was I added Mk677(20mg early august for about 2weeks then 10mg from mid august until present), huperzine A, 25mg HCTZ, 800mg Injectible L-Carnitine, switched from 3500mg Creatine HCI to 10mg Creatine Monohydrate, andswitched brands of Tduca from previously using muscleresearch to Olympus labs. I was really dehydrated yesterday as I had to fast for the blood test so I woke up at 7am and didnt eat or drink anything until the test at 9:30am except maybe 8oz water. My hemo was a little higher than normal but that is definately due to dehydration but that shouldnt effect my liver at all. So really the only thing added thats "unknown" for liver effect was the MK677 and the switch from Tduca brands. My values as of yesterday /17 were:
Total bilirubin .5 range 0-1.2 NORMAL
LDH 272 range 121-224 HIGH
Ast 109 range 0-40 HIGH
alt 83 range 0-44 REALLY HIGH
GGT 22 range 0-65 GOOD
Alkaline phosphate 33 range 39-117 LOW
So im not really sure what to think of this. My diet was actually not the greatest on my previous labs but has been really good and clean lately so that along usually lowers my enzymes. As you can see ast and alt are both bad but kinda weird how ast got worse and alt got better. Also LDH seemed to go up a bit as well. So Im kinda puzzled. I dont think its the Tduca b/c that only improved my liver enzymes in the past just a little bit. So im thinking what my plan is, is to go off the depakote completely since its only 500mg and dr. said I could and to drop the Mk677. I wanted to add ostarine and start my cycle but Im gonna hold off until next blood test. So Im thinking in 2weeks I will get another liver value test so this time I will be off the MK677. I will keep exact same diet and add nothing new and we can see what happens.
As for any other changes to my labs:
Previous labs BUN 17 range 6-20
Current labs BUN 22 range 6-20 HIGH
Previous labs Creatinine serum .93 range .76-1.27
Current labs Creatinine serum 1.08 range .76-1.27
Previous labs BUN/Creat ratio 18 range 8-19
Current labs BUN/Creat ratio 22 range 8-19 HIGH
So BUN and BUN/Creatinine ratio jumped up a little but this may be b/c I was dehydrated.
I also had Humatrope tested since I figured since I already had to give blood. I am using the 15iu vials and drew out 10iu and shot it IM 3hrs prior to bloods. Got GH serum and IGF tested waiting for results will post in lab thread when I get them. Doubt that caused the liver spike. So I guess we will see what happens in 2weeks unless you think that is not enough time and you think I need more time off the MK677 to get liver values?
Total bilirubin .6 range 0-1.2 NORMAL
LDH 222 range 121-224(on higher end)
Ast 62 range 0-40 HIGH
alt 103 range 0-44 HIGH
GGT 24 range 0-65 GOOD
Alkaline phosphate 31 range 39-117 LOW
These results are after my normal liver protocol which is:
3tabs 3x per day liv 52
600mg milk thistle 3x per day
Tduca 250mg 3x per day
Artichoke extract 500mg 2x per day
ALA 300mg 2-3x per day
Acetyl L-Carnitine 500mg 2-3x per day
So i decided I wanted to switch meds and talked with my dr. He said enzymes like alt and ast are not important at all unless they are extremely high like in the 300's and that the true test for your liver is bilirubin and GGT which I have good #'s in. I also had an ultrasound done and showed no liver damage at all but it was just a little bit fatty but still normal. I still insisted that I wanted to try something else non liver toxic. So he put me on lamical instead which is non liver toxic. So basically Aug1st his protocol for me was to drop depakote to 2000mg and add 25mg lamictal then 2weeks later drop depkote from 2000 to 1500 and add 50mg lamictal then a week later 500mg depakote and 100mg lamical and a week later stay on 500mg depakote and do real dose of lamictal which is 200mg/day. So basically my liver should have been improving each week and the past 2weeks I have only been on 500mg depakote which shouldnt effect liver much at all. Ok so now to the MK677 and how this relates.
The only changes I have made since my previous blood test in July was I added Mk677(20mg early august for about 2weeks then 10mg from mid august until present), huperzine A, 25mg HCTZ, 800mg Injectible L-Carnitine, switched from 3500mg Creatine HCI to 10mg Creatine Monohydrate, andswitched brands of Tduca from previously using muscleresearch to Olympus labs. I was really dehydrated yesterday as I had to fast for the blood test so I woke up at 7am and didnt eat or drink anything until the test at 9:30am except maybe 8oz water. My hemo was a little higher than normal but that is definately due to dehydration but that shouldnt effect my liver at all. So really the only thing added thats "unknown" for liver effect was the MK677 and the switch from Tduca brands. My values as of yesterday /17 were:
Total bilirubin .5 range 0-1.2 NORMAL
LDH 272 range 121-224 HIGH
Ast 109 range 0-40 HIGH
alt 83 range 0-44 REALLY HIGH
GGT 22 range 0-65 GOOD
Alkaline phosphate 33 range 39-117 LOW
So im not really sure what to think of this. My diet was actually not the greatest on my previous labs but has been really good and clean lately so that along usually lowers my enzymes. As you can see ast and alt are both bad but kinda weird how ast got worse and alt got better. Also LDH seemed to go up a bit as well. So Im kinda puzzled. I dont think its the Tduca b/c that only improved my liver enzymes in the past just a little bit. So im thinking what my plan is, is to go off the depakote completely since its only 500mg and dr. said I could and to drop the Mk677. I wanted to add ostarine and start my cycle but Im gonna hold off until next blood test. So Im thinking in 2weeks I will get another liver value test so this time I will be off the MK677. I will keep exact same diet and add nothing new and we can see what happens.
As for any other changes to my labs:
Previous labs BUN 17 range 6-20
Current labs BUN 22 range 6-20 HIGH
Previous labs Creatinine serum .93 range .76-1.27
Current labs Creatinine serum 1.08 range .76-1.27
Previous labs BUN/Creat ratio 18 range 8-19
Current labs BUN/Creat ratio 22 range 8-19 HIGH
So BUN and BUN/Creatinine ratio jumped up a little but this may be b/c I was dehydrated.
I also had Humatrope tested since I figured since I already had to give blood. I am using the 15iu vials and drew out 10iu and shot it IM 3hrs prior to bloods. Got GH serum and IGF tested waiting for results will post in lab thread when I get them. Doubt that caused the liver spike. So I guess we will see what happens in 2weeks unless you think that is not enough time and you think I need more time off the MK677 to get liver values?
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