Grow into your dose!

[petedw]

Grow Into Your Dose!

A lot of pretty smart guys on this forum recommend growing into your dose.

There is one thing that has always confused me about this though. 1000mg of Anadrol is not the same as 1000mg of testosterone. They have the same total weight but that does not determine the effectiveness.

What i'd like here is the experienced guys to offer their opinions on doses of different AAS that you consider comparable.

For example (not accurate, just an example of what i'm after)...

20mg (140mg Weekly) Dianabol = 50mg (350mg weekly) Anadrol = 500mg weekly Testosterone etc etc

I know it is difficult to compare because all offer different advantages. It would just make conversations about total weekly mgs a lot easier to understand. E.G. "Everyone should be able to achieve a great physique on 600mg/week"..............600mg of what? You see what i'm getting at?

All input is appreciated. Thanks guys!

 

[osiris]

buddy,

dont overthink this. Find what works for you, stick with it and slowly increase the dose.

hell, i know i will get flamed for this, but i do not react the same way to 1000mg of test prop as i do to 1000mg of test cyp/enan. Not all things are equal for all people.

Stay conservative, try different things and see what works for you.

I grow so much better on faster acting esters, but thats me and hell it could be subjective. Just dont overcomplicate this.

 

[petedw]

buddy,

dont overthink this. Find what works for you, stick with it and slowly increase the dose.

hell, i know i will get flamed for this, but i do not react the same way to 1000mg of test prop as i do to 1000mg of test cyp/enan. Not all things are equal for all people.

Stay conservative, try different things and see what works for you.

I grow so much better on faster acting esters, but thats me and hell it could be subjective. Just dont overcomplicate this.

Just trying to get a better understanding and get the info out there for others too. As you know, there are people out there that will hear that x amount of gear is the magic number and will aim to take that amount no matter what the drug is.

The more that can be learnt, the better!

 

[osiris]

Just trying to get a better understanding and get the info out there for others too. As you know, there are people out there that will hear that x amount of gear is the magic number and will aim to take that amount no matter what the drug is.

The more that can be learnt, the better!

For me it all begins and ends with test. If i need to venture out from there for whatever reason, i like DHT based things as me and the norandro's dont get along very well!

Like i said, try things at reasonable doseages. Increase food, then sleep, then training intensity, then if you are stil plateaud, add a small bit to your dose.

 

[richiec]

Just trying to get a better understanding and get the info out there for others too. As you know, there are people out there that will hear that x amount of gear is the magic number and will aim to take that amount no matter what the drug is.

The more that can be learnt, the better!

Yes, but there are also those that you can tell to take 500mg of test until they stop growing and they will throw that right out the window and jump on 750+.

People are going to do what they want regardless of sound advice. I've read many posts by DC (who obviously knows what he's talking about) and people disregard it. Same applies to John Meadows, Shelby, Phil, people think that they know better. Hearing it from someone who studies this sport and lifestlye as well as lives it, and they do their own thing. Some people don't care what people say, they will always do it their way. They are typically the ones coming back with horrific stories

 

[petedw]

For me it all begins and ends with test. If i need to venture out from there for whatever reason, i like DHT based things as me and the norandro's dont get along very well!

Like i said, try things at reasonable doseages. Increase food, then sleep, then training intensity, then if you are stil plateaud, add a small bit to your dose.

So when it comes down to needing to up your dose, how should you determine what to add in?

For example, do you just increase Test or do you up your dose by adding in Masteron? Let's say that if you were to up your Test, you would increase it by 200mg but instead you decided that adding Masteron would be the better option. Would you just add 200mg of that? Less? More??

Yes, but there are also those that you can tell to take 500mg of test until they stop growing and they will throw that right out the window and jump on 750+.

People are going to do what they want regardless of sound advice.

I agree, there will always be people like that but that doesn't stop the knowledgable guys sharing the info for the guys that will actually take it on board

 

[Kaladryn]

A lot of pretty smart guys on this forum recommend growing into your dose.

There is one thing that has always confused me about this though. 1000mg of Anadrol is not the same as 1000mg of testosterone. They have the same total weight but that does not determine the effectiveness.

What i'd like here is the experienced guys to offer their opinions on doses of different AAS that you consider comparable.

For example (not accurate, just an example of what i'm after)...

20mg (140mg Weekly) Dianabol = 50mg (350mg weekly) Anadrol = 500mg weekly Testosterone etc etc

I know it is difficult to compare because all offer different advantages. It would just make conversations about total weekly mgs a lot easier to understand. E.G. "Everyone should be able to achieve a great physique on 600mg/week"..............600mg of what? You see what i'm getting at?

All input is appreciated. Thanks guys!

First you would have to figure out how much of the actual hormone you are getting minus the ester. Then you would have to account for its individual affinitiy for the AR, then would come metabolites that are active. Even if you did that, there are other factors, like that many orals are considered mainly antiglucocoid. I'm sure how it interacts with SHBG would be a factor also. Finally you have individual differences in response.

I don't think it's possible to an estimate that is even close to accurate, plus the AR affinity of many AAS is not known accurately.

buddy,

dont overthink this. Find what works for you, stick with it and slowly increase the dose.

hell, i know i will get flamed for this, but i do not react the same way to 1000mg of test prop as i do to 1000mg of test cyp/enan. Not all things are equal for all people.

Stay conservative, try different things and see what works for you.

I grow so much better on faster acting esters, but thats me and hell it could be subjective. Just dont overcomplicate this.

You could compare these two though, test prop has significantly more test per mg because the ester weighs less, around 10% more.

 

[petedw]

First you would have to figure out how much of the actual hormone you are getting minus the ester. Then you would have to account for its individual affinitiy for the AR, then would come metabolites that are active. Even if you did that, there are other factors, like that many orals are considered mainly antiglucocoid. I'm sure how it interacts with SHBG would be a factor also. Finally you have individual differences in response.

I don't think it's possible to an estimate that is even close to accurate, plus the AR affinity of many AAS is not known accurately.



You could compare these two though, test prop has significantly more test per mg because the ester weighs less, around 10% more.

So, how would you go about the following?......

So when it comes down to needing to up your dose, how should you determine what to add in?

For example, do you just increase Test or do you up your dose by adding in Masteron? Let's say that if you were to up your Test, you would increase it by 200mg but instead you decided that adding Masteron would be the better option. Would you just add 200mg of that? Less? More??

What dose of various AAS would you add to a cycle when a dose increase is required? It can't just be a set number because it would depend on the drug. If you always increased by a set minimal amount, what would that amount be for the various choices....tren, masteron, winstrol, anavar etc

 

[Kaladryn]

Here's how I look at it, always use the lowest dose you need to grow, that way you desensitize yourself at the slowest rate, and can grow over the longest period of time.

 

[petedw]

Yes

Here's how I look at it, always use the lowest dose you need to grow, that way you desensitize yourself at the slowest rate, and can grow over the longest period of time.

I completely agree with that but what i'm trying to determine is how you should go about upping your dose especially when you make the decision to add a different compound into the mix. What is an effective minimal dose for the various choices available?

 

[alpmaster]

Here's how I look at it, always use the lowest dose you need to grow, that way you desensitize yourself at the slowest rate, and can grow over the longest period of time.

It's not about "desensitizing" yourself... which btw is completely proven as false.

It's about your genetic response to drugs and where X amount of gear puts you at Y amount of weight. And then you have to keep increasing X to achieve higher Y (sans other factors ex food, training, rest, etc). It's not desensitizing if you keep needing more and more gear to reach a new weight, its just that the gear is allowing you to have the muscle mass to be that weight.

 

[osiris]

So when it comes down to needing to up your dose, how should you determine what to add in?

For example, do you just increase Test or do you up your dose by adding in Masteron? Let's say that if you were to up your Test, you would increase it by 200mg but instead you decided that adding Masteron would be the better option. Would you just add 200mg of that? Less? More??



I agree, there will always be people like that but that doesn't stop the knowledgable guys sharing the info for the guys that will actually take it on board

I dont go right to increasing the test personally. If my poudnages in the gym have stalled i usually start by taking a week off and increasing my food. I sometimes add sopme light cardio in to increase appetite. Then if that doesnt work, i will switch workouts up, then if that doesn't work, i will increase test just a bit. After that i might add something in. Honestly most of my cycles are simple, test and proviron/masteron.

 

[QuietStorm]

I completely agree with that but what i'm trying to determine is how you should go about upping your dose especially when you make the decision to add a different compound into the mix. What is an effective minimal dose for the various choices available?

we cant tell you exactly what the effective minimal dose for you is, thats what these guys are trying to say.. it depends on how you react to say 100mg test increase. if that works for you, thats your increase amount, if not, increase it by 50mg until you find a dose that works for you.
that goes for every kind of aas you use, if you choose to add an oral, take the minimal amount and increase it by 5 or 10mg (depending on what it is) until you find the effective dosage for you. it really doesnt get any simpler than that, friend.

 

[petedw]

we cant tell you exactly what the effective minimal dose for you is, thats what these guys are trying to say.. it depends on how you react to say 100mg test increase. if that works for you, thats your increase amount, if not, increase it by 50mg until you find a dose that works for you.
that goes for every kind of aas you use, if you choose to add an oral, take the minimal amount and increase it by 5 or 10mg (depending on what it is) until you find the effective dosage for you. it really doesnt get any simpler than that, friend.

I get that it is down to the individual just like with almost everything in this sport. I guess i was just after the numbers of what a good minimal amount would be for the various options.

Would it increase in relation to the amount of gear that is currently being used? E.G. Would someone on 1000mg per week need a larger increase than someone on 500mg per week?

Just trying to take out some of the trial and error if that's possible. Guys experienced with AAS will likely have a fairly good idea how much they should add in.

How about when you're in the final weeks of a prep and want to include the more androgenic gear to give yourself that harder appearance? That's not exactly upping the dose for more growth...so how would that change how you determine the amount of mgs required?

I apologise for all the questions guys but i just love to learn

 

[brutale]

Bro you are totally over-analyzing this, as one poster already pointed out.

There are 2 reasons to be incremental in your dosing:
-- you don't need huge doses to grow unless you have been on heavy gear for a long time
-- you don't want to blow up with bad side effects and health problems: you don't know how you will react to any given compound or dose

will you tolerate test well, or will you need a lot estro of control?
will you love dht derivs like masteron? Or will your hair fall out?
will deca be great for you and your joints? Or will you have weird sides?

I won't even get into liver enzymes or polycythemia. This is about careful trial and error, starting with the general experiences of others.

Generally, you start with a test base. Figure out how much estro control you need. Then figure out how you do with dht's which can substitute for some aromatase inhibition. Then see how the 19-nors agree w you. If your liver is solid, orals. Then you can try fast vs slow esters in various things. Step by step. Rome wasn't built in a day.

There are no precise calculations here. You may not tolerate 600mg of test, but 600mg of deca may be great, or vice versa. Trial and error. Be careful. When something doesn't agree with you, it may not take much to screw you up.

You will figure out how much to add and when.

 

[petedw]

Bro you are totally over-analyzing this, as one poster already pointed out.

There are 2 reasons to be incremental in your dosing:
-- you don't need huge doses to grow unless you have been on heavy gear for a long time
-- you don't want to blow up with bad side effects and health problems: you don't know how you will react to any given compound or dose

will you tolerate test well, or will you need a lot estro of control?
will you love dht derivs like masteron? Or will your hair fall out?
will deca be great for you and your joints? Or will you have weird sides?

I won't even get into liver enzymes or polycythemia. This is about careful trial and error, starting with the general experiences of others.

Generally, you start with a test base. Figure out how much estro control you need. Then figure out how you do with dht's which can substitute for some aromatase inhibition. Then see how the 19-nors agree w you. If your liver is solid, orals. Then you can try fast vs slow esters in various things. Step by step. Rome wasn't built in a day.

There are no precise calculations here. You may not tolerate 600mg of test, but 600mg of deca may be great, or vice versa. Trial and error. Be careful. When something doesn't agree with you, it may not take much to screw you up.

You will figure out how much to add and when.

Thanks bro, i appreciate what you are saying.

The majority of the advice given in this thread i already knew but i am thankful of the input from you guys. Just trying to increase my hormone knowledge as that's my weak link. I've read numerous books and websites on the topic but there's still a few things i want to get my head around, so it's always nice to hear the views of people that have the experience.

I've read about people upping their dose/adding in other compounds all over the place but i never see anyone go into detail as to why they added the amount that they did. If it is simply that they have tested these doses previously then that's fair enough. Trial and error it is if/when the time comes.

 

[b-boy]

I completely agree with that but what i'm trying to determine is how you should go about upping your dose especially when you make the decision to add a different compound into the mix. What is an effective minimal dose for the various choices available?

go by total milligrams, if you are taking 500 test and 400 deca then that is 900mg total, if you up the dosage try 1000mg total or 1200mg total, which compound you increase is up to you and what you respond best to.

buddy,

dont overthink this. Find what works for you, stick with it and slowly increase the dose.

hell, i know i will get flamed for this, but i do not react the same way to 1000mg of test prop as i do to 1000mg of test cyp/enan. Not all things are equal for all people.

Stay conservative, try different things and see what works for you.

I grow so much better on faster acting esters, but thats me and hell it could be subjective. Just dont overcomplicate this.

you grow on faster acting esters cause you are getting more hormone for your buck, the esters attached decrease total mg. of the actual hormone, if you think you respond good to prop then you should try test supsension

 

[rippedyearround]

I think the general idea of most of the knowledgeable people on this board, when it comes to dosing is as follows:

1. Start with a low enough dose that produces growth and minimal sides.

2. Do everything in your power to grow: tweak diet, training, rest, supplements, EVERYTHING. Then, once you have done literally everything to maximize that dose...

3. Up the dose my a small increment - go back to step two.

I believe this process to be responsible. This is USING steroids. (as it relates to bodybuilding)

You could always just start taking massive dosages...hell, why not use 10grams this week? You'll certainly grow...but I believe that sort of mentality is ABUSING steroids. (as it relates to bodybuilding)

just my thoughts...

 

[Stroke71]

Man I deff understand what your asking and it's been put about the best ways possible by some smart guys. But your wanting a cut and dry answer. I don't think that exists. It's like asking 100 guys how many beers it takes them to get lit. Almost everyone will give you a different answer because everyones body reacts differently to certain compounds. Only one way to find out, and that's responsible trial and error in small steps. Good luck bro.