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Growing and staying lean...

J.Lizzle

Banned
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
318
John Meadows and many other coaches are always on about how its important that the weight you gain in offseason is CLEAN and not fat.

I looked on Johns site and even Santana Anderson and Mark Dugdales off seasons plans amazed me....due to the amount of calories they were consuming.

It was like 3500-4000calories...and this increased by a little bit every month or so as needed.

If the pro's only need that many calories then surely someone who is smaller and has less muscle will need less calories?
 
This is just my opinion but, firstly it would depend on genetics and secondly it will depend on time scales!

If you are chasing maximum growth in minimum time then excess calories and some body fat increase is just part of the plan.

In my heavy competative training years i lived in the same area as Dorian and you would see him quite often around a town called Sutton, if you saw him off season he would be out of condition and the size of a frikkin house (im not talking lazy ass obese here but fat enough you knew he was in a serious growth phase)

Nowadays i feel the game has changed, with the overuse of tren, leaps and bounds in nutrition and supplementation and all the researching of peps thats going on there seems no need to really get out of shape in the off season.
 
agreed. I think lpeptides and GH really changed the game. For instance, like you could be "anti-catabolic" till around Noon, by just pinning GH+ peptides every 3.5 hours your awake. Hit up a small pre workout meal, swig some leucine+hydrolyzed protein with carbs intra workout, and good post workout meal. Then back to protein/fats. In this scenario you are pretty low calorie throughout the day, but when nutrients are needed, you provide the very best kick ass nutrients.
 
I get that gh is awesome, but both posters mentioned peptides. Do you guys really think peps are that awesome for staying lean in the off season and if so which ones?
 
I get that gh is awesome, but both posters mentioned peptides. Do you guys really think peps are that awesome for staying lean in the off season and if so which ones?

i think its a combo of everything... drugs, genetics, diet, etc... the sport is evolving and becoming more efficient with everything that keeps advancing... just imagine what the sport could be with advancements in myostatin inhibitors in the next 5 years...
 
i found for me......if im trying to gain real size....i have to first put the weight on(onlong with some fat as well) and AFTER that get lean. get big,then get lean. thats whats worked well for me.


in my experience this seems to be ESPECIALLY important for ectomorphs
 
Last edited:
1.understanding how to use slin along with gh

2. understanding the correct training for you.. and the diet coupled with proper pre intra post workout and post post workout nutrition I think is key ..

3. keeping slin sensitive
 
I'm adding synthetine to the equation as a guarantee I' will stay lean.
 
1.understanding how to use slin along with gh

2. understanding the correct training for you.. and the diet coupled with proper pre intra post workout and post post workout nutrition I think is key ..

3. keeping slin sensitive

Yep

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
1.understanding how to use slin along with gh

2. understanding the correct training for you.. and the diet coupled with proper pre intra post workout and post post workout nutrition I think is key ..

3. keeping slin sensitive

Exactly, slin and gh combined with correct diet = lean gains in fastest time possible

Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2
 
I wonder if it can be done without slin and gh?

I just came off a surgery and I feel like I lost not only a lot of water weight after coming off cycle, but also a substantial amount of muscle weight as well.

And I want to be bigger AND more lean by the end of summer, possible? I can't afford GH right now.
 
agreed. I think lpeptides and GH really changed the game. For instance, like you could be "anti-catabolic" till around Noon, by just pinning GH+ peptides every 3.5 hours your awake. Hit up a small pre workout meal, swig some leucine+hydrolyzed protein with carbs intra workout, and good post workout meal. Then back to protein/fats. In this scenario you are pretty low calorie throughout the day, but when nutrients are needed, you provide the very best kick ass nutrients.

The only problem with this setup is that your growing 3-4 hours out of 24. Might be good for someone whois looking to put some muscle and stay lean or even burn some fat, but as anabolic stated in his post above-not optimal if trying to put as much muscle as possible. Nowadays guys can use more hgh, peptides, due to cheap ug labs stuff- higher dosages etc but how many Yates size guys there are onstage?
 
I wonder if it can be done without slin and gh?

I just came off a surgery and I feel like I lost not only a lot of water weight after coming off cycle, but also a substantial amount of muscle weight as well.

And I want to be bigger AND more lean by the end of summer, possible? I can't afford GH right now.

You have almost 4 months. 2months in calorie surplus+2months in calorie deficit=100% more muscle and less fat at the end of 4months...or you can try to grow and get leaner at the same time, but if its your first time, you wont get help, tips from someone who has done that and been there your chances are 50/50...
 
1.understanding how to use slin along with gh

2. understanding the correct training for you.. and the diet coupled with proper pre intra post workout and post post workout nutrition I think is key ..

3. keeping slin sensitive

Im not disagreeing with youat all. good post. i have a question though. Do you think the "pro" diets posted on john's site (I'm a member), are laid out based on the inclusion of an insulin regimen? I'm asking because I wonder how effective it would be for someone to follow something along the lines of these diets without insulin.

Thanks
 
Im not disagreeing with youat all. good post. i have a question though. Do you think the "pro" diets posted on john's site (I'm a member), are laid out based on the inclusion of an insulin regimen? I'm asking because I wonder how effective it would be for someone to follow something along the lines of these diets without insulin.

Thanks

John and his IFBB client, Mark Dugdale, are on record saying they do not use slin.

Insulin sensitivity can achieved through other means, carb manipulation and GDA use etc., in order to mimic the effects of a exo insulin pulse PWO.
 
John and his IFBB client, Mark Dugdale, are on record saying they do not use slin.

Insulin sensitivity can achieved through other means, carb manipulation and GDA use etc., in order to mimic the effects of a exo insulin pulse PWO.

tru but gda are not anti catabolic, and dont promote protein synthesis. So exo insulin still is superior. But gdas are beneficial
 
Exactly, slin and gh combined with correct diet = lean gains in fastest time possible

Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2

i really want to try slin :D
 
So confusing tho..

John meads pro's only eating like 4000calories off season...yet you hear of other pro's smashing in 7-8k calories a day..

How can there be such a difference?

Im 23, 6ft 1.5 and 235lbs....

According to johns site a good base for me is 3500calories ish...for fully lean gains. Just seems low

My mind is baffled.
 
So confusing tho..

John meads pro's only eating like 4000calories off season...yet you hear of other pro's smashing in 7-8k calories a day..

How can there be such a difference?

Im 23, 6ft 1.5 and 235lbs....

According to johns site a good base for me is 3500calories ish...for fully lean gains. Just seems low

My mind is baffled.

I think John has been there, was doing this so long that hes smart enough to know how much macros is needed to grow. By taking more than is needed you just want to be safe, but more is not always bettes. Your body grows from what it assimilates not from what you put into it, if you dont want to "miss" you put more than it actually needs to grow. This is why some guys eats 7000+ cals. None needs that much and 4000 cals - thats a lot of food to eat,thats 400g protein 400g carbs and almost 100g fats,or 3pounds meat 10eggs, few scoops whey,4cups rice 4cups oats few bananas,few tbsp oils-IMO more than enuogh to get clean gains no matter who you are
 
So confusing tho..

John meads pro's only eating like 4000calories off season...yet you hear of other pro's smashing in 7-8k calories a day..

How can there be such a difference?

Im 23, 6ft 1.5 and 235lbs....

According to johns site a good base for me is 3500calories ish...for fully lean gains. Just seems low

My mind is baffled.

Firstly just by virtue of actual muscle someones carrying their intake will be less/more but add in lifestyle and metabolic rates which are determined by genetics and you are going to see A LOT of varriance.
 

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