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growing lean for guys with average genetics

Your body can maximally build 60g (somth like that) actual muscle tissue a day. Use enough roids to keep those little gains coming but not too much that you'll need to drop down early then just keep going and maintain your body weight and eating well. Should end up recomping over time as long as you keep eating enough shooting enough drugs and progressing with weights. Imo its the same process just you don't get the glycogen fluctuations of cutting/bulking amplefied by the drugs, just recomping. Mike mentzer was Rly ahead of his time think he said somth similar
60 grams? It is nearly 2kg pure muscle per month. This is enormous amount... In advanced lifter 2 kg per year is amazing progress.... Even 1 kg is a lot for somebody who lift for 10 or more years. Truth is you will be nearly maxed out on saa only in what 3,4 years? Then is a miniscule. Without gh and later slin sides will outweighs benefits big time
 
You crushed it. You didnt fail. These paragraphs...just pristine brother.

Good advice too. As always.


I could write a lot about this but will try to keep it relatively brief (I failed :eek::D). Firstly it is 100% possible it's just many don't put 100% into things and often start with a negative mindset (I don't have good genetics) so they lose consistency. Often if they were to step back and look at their routine it's filled with holes. If someone is a machine as in progressively eating, training and drugging then of course it is possible. It's even possible with lower drugs but it just means the other elements have to be 100%.

Now I will add many bullshit about their doses and many even state they are natural and you see these crazy transformations. Half the fitness guys on IG are loaded up most of the year. However even with smaller doses of the right compounds combined with the right training and diet it's very possible. Obviously if someone has crap genetics they are not going to be 270 pound lean monsters probably on any drug stack. But often guys asking these questions have barely broke 200 pounds at a standard height so they obviously just aren't doing everything they need to be doing.

Everyone is different and I will keep this general but I will say 300mg tren per week can go a VERY LONG WAY. You don't need to be on massive doses of tren daily to grow lean like some people on here seem to think. Tren doesn't even have to be used but just making a point as many seem to think anyone big and lean is usually taking loads of tren. There is no right drug or training plan. Just consistency with good nutrition (never missing meals), taking the right drugs and training like an animal in the gym.

Now obviously drugs can be a factor as well. Certain things pop in my head when I think of growing lean and they include hgh, lr3, synthetine, primo, npp, test, mast, tren, avar... but you could use test and dbol if you really wanted to.

All in all it's just about eating good food in a slight surplus and gradually increasing that as you grow. Keeping your health good and performing cardio (not too much) and using the right drugs in stages (progressively).
 
I came to see if someone said it. Of course it was you!

I couldnt agree more. Also, try keto for a while and introduce carbs back in after a few months. It seems most people have success improving insulin sensitivity doing this.



2 words....................INSULIN SENSITIVITY
 
Better insulin sensitivity means everything from better nutrient partitioning (with or without drugs) to better workouts to better recovery. Use these things wisely to your advantage. If you can cram 500g carbs every day have no issues, more power to you. For we fat boys at heart, moderating carbs is just the answer. I recently transitioned back from a carb based diet, and within a day or two, my body was thanking me and I was already feeling awesome. I eat carbs when I need them and don't when I don't. Simple.
 
Being an endo meso body type here the best advice I can give is to get very lean first 8% or so. And then slowly add in extra calories every couple of weeks and try to maintain that low bf level never letting your self get past 12%-15%. Trying to grow being in a lean state will make it a hell of a lot easier to get bigger while staying relatively lean. When your lean your body is ultra insulin sensitive which is key to staying lean while trying to grow.

This x2. Get sub 10% bodyfat before adding calories.

Also growth and tren help a lot. Also short stints of low dose DNP really help bring back great insulin sensitivity. Lean Bulk for 3-4 weeks, then lower calories and run a week of DNP at 250mg. Cut back workout volume and food, let the joints rest. Then hit it hard again. You can pull off 1-2% bodyfat in a week and prime the body again.
 
I just read about this protocol for DNP and maintaining muscle fullness while dropping a little fat, so it's interesting you bring it up again. I may have to give it a shot at some point. This protocol involved taking 200mg every other day, however.
 
I have a hard time answering this question because EVERY person who has replied has a different version of "big and lean" in their head. 1/3 the guys on here want to be 220 at 8%, another 1/3 wants to be stage lean and aesthetic and the last 1/3 wants to be a hulking beast 250-300.

Each one of those takes very different approaches and that's not even counting everyone genetics and metabolisms.
To be honest, if you're goal is to grow as much lean body mass as possible i find it 100% better to not give a fuck if you are kinda soft for a few offseasons. You'll get there, i promise. Go look at ANY offseason Jay, Ronnie, etc pic. They get soft with very shadowy midsections. It's how it is. If the goal is to crisp up and change an already good physique? That's different and you can stay leaner doing this.

Go take a look at IFBB Pro Robin Strand's YouTube and IG channels. Take a look at that guy.
Go look at Antoine Vaillant this offseason.
Those dudes quickly realized that if they wanted to be competitive in shows, they NEEDED 20lb gains in tissue.
And barely going above 10% aint doing it. Hell, Robin is like 16% BF right now and i guarantee you he will look world class when he's cut down.

The "grow season" is one where you truly need to check your ego at the door and pray to god you have a woman who loves you (and will stay with you) haha. You are going to look like a powerlifter/NFL lineman but you will be thankful onstage next year (or at the beach).
 
Your body can maximally build 60g (somth like that) actual muscle tissue a day. Use enough roids to keep those little gains coming but not too much that you'll need to drop down early then just keep going and maintain your body weight and eating well. Should end up recomping over time as long as you keep eating enough shooting enough drugs and progressing with weights. Imo its the same process just you don't get the glycogen fluctuations of cutting/bulking amplefied by the drugs, just recomping. Mike mentzer was Rly ahead of his time think he said somth similar
I would assume that if the body was growing 60 grams of muscle a day that the majority of that would just be regrowing muscle that the body already has. Since muscle is always being turned over. And a smaller amount would be actual new muscle.
 
Another random thought I had reading this thread again—I actually got a newsletter from Revive Stronger if anyone is familiar with them.

Based on your genetics and what you're natural bf set point is, you will grow according to that.
Basically, if you were one of those lean kids who was a string bean, chances are as you gain LBM and push the offseason, you aren't going to spill into a fatty in order to push your weight up. IF you are a dude who naturally sat at 15%, not really lean in their life UNTIL they did a show, then you have a much higher propensity to getting softer quicker. Your body doesnt want to be lean. You still have the fat cells from before, they are just shrunken now.

I feel like this is pretty obvious but once you read it and think about it you're like, "of course, that makes sense."
 

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