Growing on keto

hilly2008 · Sep 16, 2009

Tough Old Man said:
I think your numbers are off..Anything under 200 for total cholestrol is good..I really don't think it's possible to get down to 9.6 neverless then 4.5..You need a different Doctor.

we may use a different ameasurement in the uk as this is how i always see cholesterol shown. that is total cholesterol anyway

i ust checked 200 is the same as 5. 5 is in mmol/l - 200 is mg/dl

bigindian · Sep 16, 2009

My cholesterol went way down. Dropped 20lbs too. However I only did carbs pwo at around 20gm. And Refeed on 1 day.

Lenny · Sep 16, 2009

I think if you calories are high enough and fat intake is in a good place, you will can retain and gain muscle. I think we confuse no carbs or low carbs with low calories...eat enough calories and protein, grow some muscle...do not eat enough calories maintain weight or lose weight which can lead to muscle loss. Also, I do not think you have to completely carb free as Magnum stated, I think low to moderate carbs would be fine for adding lean muscle over a period of time. Some people need lower carbs, some need moderate carbs, that is all a individual thing. You must experiment with it or hire someone to help you figure out what works best for YOUR body!

Carbs is a mental thing, a craving thing, but do not get me wrong they serve as a source fuel or nourishment (I need choose to indulge from a sanity standpoint...kind of like refeeding)...however if you can train your body to switch gears and to survive off lower carbs, then you can reach a comfort zone.

Just opinion!

Magnum · Sep 16, 2009

Lenny said:
I think if you calories are high enough and fat intake is in a good place, you will can retain and gain muscle. I think we confuse no carbs or low carbs with low calories...eat enough calories and protein, grow some muscle...do not eat enough calories maintain weight or lose weight which can lead to muscle loss. Also, I do not think you have to completely carb free as Magnum stated, I think low to moderate carbs would be fine for adding lean muscle over a period of time. Some people need lower carbs, some need moderate carbs, that is all a individual thing. You must experiment with it or hire someone to help you figure out what works best for YOUR body!

Carbs is a mental thing, a craving thing, but do not get me wrong they serve as a source fuel or nourishment (I need choose to indulge from a sanity standpoint...kind of like refeeding)...however if you can train your body to switch gears and to survive off lower carbs, then you can reach a comfort zone.

Just opinion!

I aree Lenny I don't think you need to be carb free I was just asnswering someone elses question in regards to being able to growing on zero carbs. There is nothing wrong with eating carbs in the off season or during contest dieting for that matter if that is what you choose to do but fact is you do not need any carbs to grow muscle.

unoigo · Sep 16, 2009

marc lobliner - natural competitor and owner of Scivation pretty much stays on a keto diet year round. From what I've seen in his posts and blogs is that offseason he only adds oats to his PWO meal, all other meals or P/F/ veggie. Precontest, oats come out and some blueberries are added.

He's made some great gains of late and plans to compete at nationals this year.

weight · Sep 17, 2009

Lou said:
Yes, i was planning on doing keto with carbs PWO with 1 day refeed. Also on test, a little tren, t3 and slin only on workout days and PWO. I want to gain some weight but i need to stay lean for my job.

this wouldnt be a keto diet, would be a low carb, and with slin you would still put some fat on i bet

Lou · Sep 17, 2009

Its called a targeted keto diet.

Lou · Sep 17, 2009

Some interesting info that keeps me thinking about PWO carbs. I think ive read something similar in Dat's thread. Pasquale's view on PWO carbs:

First of all it's well known that a single session of exercise increases insulin sensitivity for hours and even days. 11,12

It's also known that a bout of resistance exercise results in a significant decrease in glycogen and that total energy content and CHO content are important in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen.13

Glucose uptake and glycogen synthesis are enhanced in the presence of insulin following an acute exercise bout that lowers the muscle glycogen concentration and activates glycogen synthase. 14,15

Muscle glycogen concentration dictates much of this acute increase in insulin sensitivity after exercise.16 Therefore, an increased availability of dietary carbohydrate in the hours after exercise and the resultant increase in muscle glycogen resynthesis reverses the exercise-induced increase in insulin sensitivity.17

Along with glucose uptake, amino acid uptake and protein synthesis also increase. As well, the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel also rises after exercise since glycogen resynthesis takes priority to the use of glucose for aerobic energy.

However, as liver and muscle glycogen levels get replenished, insulin sensitivity decreases, as does amino acid uptake, protein synthesis and the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel.

By increasing insulin levels and not providing carbs you shunt your body's metabolism to the use of more fatty acids for energy while at the same time keeping muscle glycogen levels below saturation and amino acid influx and protein synthesis elevated for a prolonged period of time post exercise.

This increased capacity for glycogen synthesis, and everything that goes with it, can persist for several days if the muscle glycogen concentration is maintained below normal levels by carbohydrate restriction. By keeping carbs low and protein and energy high after training, you can increase protein synthesis over a prolonged period of time and get long term anabolic effect.18

As well, the type of protein used post exercise can have an effect on glycogen levels and thus the anabolic stimulus. For example it's been shown that a fast protein, such as whey protein, leads to increased glycogen levels over slow proteins such as casein.19

In the long run, the optimal protein for increasing protein synthesis, decreasing catabolism and increasing muscle accretion is a blend of slow and fast proteins, plus the addition of a few other useful ingredients.