HAHA check out what my doc had to say to me

[SAGE74]

This is going to be a long post, but trust me, it will be interesting.

Alright so little back tracking here..Got my test levels checked in august, didn't get the results until November. Total was 360, free was 70. Didn't tamper with them at all. got them checked around afternoon after I was up for a few hrs already and ate a couple times. i'm turning 22 next month.

Okay so here's where it gets interesting, they said my levels were normal, but the doc didn't really know much about hrt and what not. So, I went in for an appointment today to talk about getting them done again, but with more panels.

I am active duty, so I saw a military doctor. First thing he says is:
DOC- I'm not doing blood work on you because you already got them done and your results came back normal
ME- so youre saying 360 is normal
DOC- yes
ME- I did quite a bit of research and it says 360 is low, especially for someone my age
DOC- oh so you have a medical degree?
ME- no
DOC- why do you think they were low
ME- the ranges given are 200-1000, and that is for all ages. i'm 21, mine should be high.
DOC- your levels change throughout the day and have other factors like nutrition. (guy must not have realized the time of day I took them and I had eaten twice that day). so you think you have a problem because you cant get bigger. (I never said anything to him about what my goals were or if I was even trying to get bigger)
ME- ya, but there's other signs
DOC- what signs
ME -I feel lethargic
DOC- so you have a PRP issue(prp is a program I'm where you basically get evaluated all the time on your reliability, because I work with nukes) Then asked what I thought lethargic was?
ME- I feel lazy, tired, and don't feel like doing anything, that's what I think beig lethargic is
DOC- No, being lethargic is like a baby who just lays there with its eyes open and cant do anything. So you get home from work and are too tired to do anything
ME- no, this is on my days off as well
DOC- so I should send you to mental health to get evaluated because youre depressed.
ME- no I don't have a problem with work or anything, and i'm not depressed. I also don't get morning wood, and my libido is low.
DOC- morning wood doesn't mean you have low test
ME- Yes but it can be a symptom, how do you know its not if you don't test it?
DOC- How do I know you don't have a brain tumor unless I test for that?
ME- you don't
DOC- whats your caloric intake
ME- 4000
DOC- what are you eating
ME- chicken and rice(just a quick answer to show I eat right)
DOC- you need to eat more beef and potatoes
ME- I actually have a beef meal, and a steak meal, and I get a cheat meal about every other day
DOC- lift heavy and eat 6000 cals (I've tried 5x5 training as well, and it didn't work for me, but I didn't tell him that. or ask how i'm suppose to hit all my muscle fibers by just lifting heavy. lol)

So then he starts looking at my knees/legs and tells me my knees get pain because my vastus medialis(inner quad) is bigger than my vastus lateralis(outer quad). which causes my knee cap to turn because my vastus medialis is basically pulling my knee cap. also went on to because my calves are smaller than my legs, that will also cause pain. then went to say my hamstrings are also smaller than my quads, and that will cause pain as well.
So finally, after going over everything

DOC- what labs does your coach want(I never said I had a coach)
ME- I don't have a coach(I do though, but this is all me requesting it), I want to get all my hormones, and liver, thyroid, etc.
DOC- l'll put you in for bloodwork that will have to do with your metabolism (thyroid etc.) but im not doing test because you just got them done in November(wrong, got the results in November, but labs done in august)
ME- I actually got them done in august
DOC- okay i'll do it one more time, but if they come back the same youre not getting them done again, and i'm telling every doctor not to let you get labs done and waste money.

We also briefly talked about genetics, and he said I will never be big because of my genetics. LOL


Sooo, what do yall think about that? I wanted to punch him in the face, but military and all...I would be screwed. I also wanted to just walk out halfway through, but I knew I would get in trouble for that as well.

Ur problem is u steped on his ego, and challenged him. At that point u weren't getting anything. A military Dr. Is ego personified. If u would have gone in acting dumb and humble he probably would have helped u. But u went in with an I know everything attitude which pissed him off and now u will never get TRT from him. Sometimes u have to be humble and act stupid to get the things u want in life. You will learn this as u get older. Try a different doc on base if u can, if not ur screwed.

 

[j4ever]

I'm probably going to get shit on for this.

But what about those people on TRT who do extensive bloodwork and find out that their RBC's and hematocrits are dangerously high, and that TRT has endangered their health?

How do you know that you won't be one of those people?

Well, you don't. You can't. Your doctor can't.

The only way to know is to put you on TRT, and to monitor you regularly. There's a risk.

Why take the risk? Well, there has to be a medically justifiable reward.

Your doc doesn't see that. Why not? Your test readings are in the normal range. Yes, they're low. But: they're normal. Moreover, no reputable endo is going to prescribe TRT, with its risks, based on normal (even low normal) blood reading. If you are truly demonstrating other symptoms: like you can't put on muscle mass, you can't perform physical labor, then a reasonable course of action would be to get multiple tests done.

But that's not the case here. Dude, your making progress.

When I went to my TRT doc, my levels were in the shitter. Close to zero. I was 47 years old, I'm suffering from a disease (a metabolic disease), I take painkillers (doctor Rx'd). I was suicidal, depressed, hadn't had sex in over 2 years. I was unable to recover from a simple arm workout. Some nights I would sleep 15 hours. I was obese, (50% bodyfat) apple-shaped - very estrogenic body shaped. My E2 levels tested super high.

It was a no-brainer for me to go on TRT.

See the difference?

I had no quality of life. You have a great quality of life.

I respect that you want to improve, but I'd also like to point out that at your age, TRT is really a shitty answer. Yeah, it sounds like fun: oooh, I get needles from the doc, and Watson test cyp, and I get to inject legally. After about 5 years, or 10 years, or 15 years, or 20 years, when you feel like a fucking pincushion, when you have accumulated scar tissue, when it hurts to put a needle just about anywhere, it's not so fun any more. And by then your balls are shut down, and you realize: this TRT shit is for the rest of my fucking life.

And then you get a little sloppy with your technique, and you get an abcess.

Suddenly, this shit is really a pain in the ass when you end up in the OR and they're cutting a chunk out of your glute to save your life.

I'd respectfully suggest that, at your age, you be happy that you're healthy, that you have normal (albeit low normal) T levels. If you're religious, thank your god every day you wake up and can train and do the things you love to do.

Thanks for serving.

very good post, at the OP's age I would do whatever I could to avoid trt

 

[Kaladryn]

Your doctor is spot on. Everything he says is perfectly correct. This is from someone who has been on TRT for over 20 years and has studied it extensively.

DOC- I'm not doing blood work on you because you already got them done and your results came back normal
Correct, he can't justify ordering additional tests when values are normal, this is tax payer funded testing after all.
ME- so youre saying 360 is normal
DOC- yes
360 is normal, and your free test is even higher, proportionately.
ME- I did quite a bit of research and it says 360 is low, especially for someone my age
A high percentage of people have testosterone in the 360 range at your age, it's not unusual, there are many studies that will confirm this. Your values are within the standard deviation.
DOC- oh so you have a medical degree?
ME- no
DOC- why do you think they were low
ME- the ranges given are 200-1000, and that is for all ages. i'm 21, mine should be high.
Normal range is actually now 250-850 by most labs. If you were 17 that would be low, 21, that's not that low at all.
DOC- your levels change throughout the day and have other factors like nutrition. (guy must not have realized the time of day I took them and I had eaten twice that day). so you think you have a problem because you cant get bigger. (I never said anything to him about what my goals were or if I was even trying to get bigger)
This is absolutely spot on. They vary throughout the day and nutrition is huge, it has NOTHING to do with the fact that you ate 2x that day LOL
ME- ya, but there's other signs
DOC- what signs
ME -I feel lethargic
This isn't a "sign" of anything, and is definitely not from a 360 T level.
DOC- so you have a PRP issue(prp is a program I'm where you basically get evaluated all the time on your reliability, because I work with nukes) Then asked what I thought lethargic was?
ME- I feel lazy, tired, and don't feel like doing anything, that's what I think beig lethargic is
DOC- No, being lethargic is like a baby who just lays there with its eyes open and cant do anything. So you get home from work and are too tired to do anything
ME- no, this is on my days off as well
DOC- so I should send you to mental health to get evaluated because youre depressed.
Exactly, doc is right on.
ME- no I don't have a problem with work or anything, and i'm not depressed. I also don't get morning wood, and my libido is low.
DOC- morning wood doesn't mean you have low test
Again, he's spot on, and libido is far more complicated than T levels. 360 T isn't going to give you low libido by itself.
ME- Yes but it can be a symptom, how do you know its not if you don't test it?
DOC- How do I know you don't have a brain tumor unless I test for that?
Exactly.
ME- you don't
DOC- whats your caloric intake
ME- 4000
DOC- what are you eating
ME- chicken and rice(just a quick answer to show I eat right)
DOC- you need to eat more beef and potatoes
Smart doc.
ME- I actually have a beef meal, and a steak meal, and I get a cheat meal about every other day
DOC- lift heavy and eat 6000 cals (I've tried 5x5 training as well, and it didn't work for me, but I didn't tell him that. or ask how i'm suppose to hit all my muscle fibers by just lifting heavy. lol)
Your doctor knows more about bodybuilding than the average doc!

So then he starts looking at my knees/legs and tells me my knees get pain because my vastus medialis(inner quad) is bigger than my vastus lateralis(outer quad). which causes my knee cap to turn because my vastus medialis is basically pulling my knee cap. also went on to because my calves are smaller than my legs, that will also cause pain. then went to say my hamstrings are also smaller than my quads, and that will cause pain as well.

Wow, this guy is moonlighting as an ortho! Chances are this diagnosis is 100% correct, as this is one of the most common knee problems, and can be easily diagnosed by the angle of the kneecap.
So finally, after going over everything

DOC- what labs does your coach want(I never said I had a coach)
Again, insightful doc, he can tell you are getting info from someone else. He probably also knows why you T levels aren't higher...
ME- I don't have a coach(I do though, but this is all me requesting it), I want to get all my hormones, and liver, thyroid, etc.
DOC- l'll put you in for bloodwork that will have to do with your metabolism (thyroid etc.) but im not doing test because you just got them done in November(wrong, got the results in November, but labs done in august)
ME- I actually got them done in august
DOC- okay i'll do it one more time, but if they come back the same youre not getting them done again, and i'm telling every doctor not to let you get labs done and waste money.
He is exactly right, if I was him, I wouldn't even have tested you again, he's actually just being nice to you here. There is no reason to believe you would suddenly develop a thyroid issue. Unnecessary testing is dangerous (statistically speaking).

We also briefly talked about genetics, and he said I will never be big because of my genetics. LOL
Wow, I'm starting to really like this guy, nothing can change genetics, he is correct, it is the biggest factor by far.


Sooo, what do yall think about that? I wanted to punch him in the face, but military and all...I would be screwed. I also wanted to just walk out halfway through, but I knew I would get in trouble for that as well.
You got a great, smart doctor who agreed to do additional testing, and you want to punch him? It's not your T level that is the problem, it's your estrogen levels.

 

[Muscleaddict69]

The problem is nobody these days comes off for long enough to get their hormones back to normal and then they assume they need HRT. Some people take a year or more to get their test levels back to over 600ng/dl despite doing a good PCT where things are temporarily improved.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[1mexgear]

Some doctors are so ignorant and controlling!!!

-

 

[Jman9229]

Your doctor is spot on. Everything he says is perfectly correct. This is from someone who has been on TRT for over 20 years and has studied it extensively.

Thanks for your input. I just don't necessarily agree with everything. My nips do get sensitive every once in awhile lol

 

[Jeremy24]

Wanna get ur trt or hrt! tell ur doctor that u know ur low and that if he doesnt help u that u will self medicate.

 

[1mexgear]

^^^^ may do that myself. Had bloodwork done and my results showed kidney disease. He asked if I took anything. I told him yes. I have taken test. He told me to stop everything. I asked about HRT later and he said no. I told him that when I came off before my sex drive, energy, and mood was all messed up. He actually said "No test we have things for all those issues" meaning medications. I myself know that coming all the way off will cause issues of it's own.

 

[Kaladryn]

Thanks for your input. I just don't necessarily agree with everything. My nips do get sensitive every once in awhile lol

Well you kept your cool in your response to me, so that's a start, because I was a little harsh.

You are correct, 360 is probably lower than you should be, but ask yourself this: are you sure you are ready for a shot every week for the rest of your life? If you are, then you can find a doctor who will prescribe if you look around. Also realize this, if you have taken AAS recently, that level will be going up over time.

I do feel for you, 300-400 isn't fun to deal with. I did it for years, and decided to go on TRT (I was in the low 300s after many years of no AAS), BUT I was also in my mid 30s when I started on "permanent" TRT.

It is important to understand your doctors perspective however, they are looking out for you (even if it is annoying that they seem to think they know what is good for you better than you do yourself).

Best of luck.

 

[nothuman]

Well you kept your cool in your response to me, so that's a start, because I was a little harsh.

You are correct, 360 is probably lower than you should be, but ask yourself this: are you sure you are ready for a shot every week for the rest of your life? If you are, then you can find a doctor who will prescribe if you look around. Also realize this, if you have taken AAS recently, that level will be going up over time.

I do feel for you, 300-400 isn't fun to deal with. I did it for years, and decided to go on TRT (I was in the low 300s after many years of no AAS), BUT I was also in my mid 30s when I started on "permanent" TRT.

It is important to understand your doctors perspective however, they are looking out for you (even if it is annoying that they seem to think they know what is good for you better than you do yourself).

Best of luck.

I am kind of hijacking the thread but wanted to ask you a relevant question, Kaladryn. I actually was just prescribed TRT, but my endo wants me to try to come off in 4-6 months to try to recover. I want to refuse, but am worried she will stop writing prescriptions for me. Can she do that (stop prescribing it)?

 

[ryanbCXG]

Well you kept your cool in your response to me, so that's a start, because I was a little harsh.

You are correct, 360 is probably lower than you should be, but ask yourself this: are you sure you are ready for a shot every week for the rest of your life? If you are, then you can find a doctor who will prescribe if you look around. Also realize this, if you have taken AAS recently, that level will be going up over time.

I do feel for you, 300-400 isn't fun to deal with. I did it for years, and decided to go on TRT (I was in the low 300s after many years of no AAS), BUT I was also in my mid 30s when I started on "permanent" TRT.

It is important to understand your doctors perspective however, they are looking out for you (even if it is annoying that they seem to think they know what is good for you better than you do yourself).

Best of luck.

The endo that taught our class and some of the ones I've spoke to feel that TRT should be moved to 400 and that many ppl can start having negative effects below that. Also I don't agree with treating labs on and not a patients symptoms. We don't know enough about each individual body and how it interacts physiologically to use labs and ranges and try and fit everyone into them. Just my opinion.

 

[Kaladryn]

I am kind of hijacking the thread but wanted to ask you a relevant question, Kaladryn. I actually was just prescribed TRT, but my endo wants me to try to come off in 4-6 months to try to recover. I want to refuse, but am worried she will stop writing prescriptions for me. Can she do that (stop prescribing it)?

She can, sure, but before she does you should ask your family doctor to take over prescribing it for you. This is normal because specialists are expensive, and your family doc probably won't even talk to her directly, just get sent your charts.

 

[Jman9229]

Well you kept your cool in your response to me, so that's a start, because I was a little harsh.

You are correct, 360 is probably lower than you should be, but ask yourself this: are you sure you are ready for a shot every week for the rest of your life? If you are, then you can find a doctor who will prescribe if you look around. Also realize this, if you have taken AAS recently, that level will be going up over time.

I do feel for you, 300-400 isn't fun to deal with. I did it for years, and decided to go on TRT (I was in the low 300s after many years of no AAS), BUT I was also in my mid 30s when I started on "permanent" TRT.

It is important to understand your doctors perspective however, they are looking out for you (even if it is annoying that they seem to think they know what is good for you better than you do yourself).

Best of luck.

I appreciate the response. I've never used

 

[nothuman]

She can, sure, but before she does you should ask your family doctor to take over prescribing it for you. This is normal because specialists are expensive, and your family doc probably won't even talk to her directly, just get sent your charts.

Thanks for the tip!