Hard work vs genetics & gear... when passion just ain’t enough?

[KingOfSushi]

i heavily agree with neutrino on the latter here, you have to just execute and hit every switch you can and it will show what your genetic potential is. It doesnt really matter what you think or believe what your genetics is if you do everything you can, your return of investment will be apparent after youve done it for years consistently 100%. Thats when you could assess what you can do with your genetics, and work ethic.

Do you believe what is holding him back is lack of consistent surplus? @luki7788 im curious as to what you would have him change/do different and what is actually holding him back. That would make a lot of sense vs if he actually pushed up 15-20lbs across 3-6 months and ended up just getting fat or something. If he hasnt been eating enough and given his body a chance to actually grow and adapt properly from hard proper training and enough food, that would make sense. Then its not your genetics holding you back @ OP

Yeah I’d say it’s pretty obvious… eat more

 

[AllLoadedUp]

Yo fellas,

Been hittin’ the iron religiously for damn more than a decade now. Eating clean, sleeping like a monk, training like my life depends on it. No parties, no BS. Just gym, meals, and grind. But here’s the kicker — I’m still lookin’ like a natty intermediate at best.

Meanwhile I see dudes poppin' up with half my discipline, juiced to the gills on test, tren, slin, GH.. and yeah, I get it, they respond like freakin' mutants. Some of these guys touch a barbell and blow up like balloons. Genetics hittin’ the jackpot.

So here’s the million-dollar question:
Is passion and discipline really enough in this game? Or is this sport just a genetic lottery where the only way to compete is with a fat stack and a god-tier DNA roll?

I'm not tryna whine — just tryna keep it real.
What y’all think?

Anyone here not genetically blessed but still made it to freak-status?
Do the drugs just widen the gap between good and great?
Is insulin even worth it if your body ain't a hyper-responder?
At what point do you say "f*** it" and either blast or quit?

Let’s hear the truth, no sugarcoatin’.

Stay huge or die tryin’

How tall are you man? You look better than I've ever looked. I'm 6'1. I weighed 240lbs and could squat 500 and deadlift 500 for 3 reps before I ever touched juice. I was 32 when I did my first cycle. All I ever cared about was being "big". Chasing the scale. If you're not getting bigger then you're not eating enough. Its that simple. I would force feed myself back in the day. I had a buddy who was like 175. He's 5'9. His first cycle he told me "my juice is fake". I said you're not eating enough. He was like "yeh yeh I'm eating a lot". I told him to go home and add up his calories. It was 2500 calories or something. Then he started pounding like 4000 or 4500 something like that. He blew the fuck up to like 205 I think. If you wanna "grow" you gotta EAT. Now gain 25lbs and stay looking like you do in your picture? That's where genetics really come into play. Like I said earlier nothing you can do about those. You get what God and your parents gave you. Just my 2 cents.

 

[AllLoadedUp]

Genetics are very hard to beat. I did well even as a natural. And gear made things much easier. Dedication and consistency is needed by most everyone except maybe the absolute top of the heap. If enough drugs are taken it seems that can help level the playing field, but at what cost. I have seen many that thought they were training hard, eating well and really weren't. Sometimes people have to do what they don't want to do to get ahead.

I often tell people "if you wanna go somewhere you've never been you have to be willing to do things you've never done". Simple as that.

 

[NeveReveN]

I don't agree because everyone can achieve size regardless of genetics, I am the best example - I have really shitty genetics both when it comes to shape and difficulty in gaining muscle and strength, but I managed to gain almost 300lbs with about 10% body fat and I am sure that everyone can be really big and lean if they do everything properly - only if you don't have genetics, sooner or later you will pay a high price for your health

You gained 300 pounds! So, guessing that you started off around 150, you are at 450 pounds now! Good God Man! You must be the greatest muscle gainer of all lifeforms in the history of the earth.

 

[luki7788]

You gained 300 pounds! So, guessing that you started off around 150, you are at 450 pounds now! Good God Man! You must be the greatest muscle gainer of all lifeforms in the history of the earth.

English is not my first language, but it seems everyone understood what I meant except you - forgive me for my ineducation

 

[control]

If you train at any kind of serious gym (the type of gym where multiple IFBB pros train), you really get a feel for how drastic the genetic factor is.

I see one guy that I can tell is trying extremely hard. He's late 20s, acne scars all over his back from gear. He looks OK, but I was natty at his age and looked better than him with a lot less effort. So I think, my genetics are OK.

Then Jordan Hutchinson walks in, and it reminds me why I never competed. There's nothing I could do to look like that, and I'm glad I realized it early and didn't kill myself trying to.

This chick I met was telling me about her ex. He's the same age as me, 48. Still chasing his pro card, broke as fuck. She says he has serious kidney issues. Some people just can't accept that they don't have it. I don't think there's too many guys in their 40s that still think they're going to make it in the NFL, but you see it in bodybuilding...

 

[massephase]

If you train at any kind of serious gym (the type of gym where multiple IFBB pros train), you really get a feel for how drastic the genetic factor is.

I see one guy that I can tell is trying extremely hard. He's late 20s, acne scars all over his back from gear. He looks OK, but I was natty at his age and looked better than him with a lot less effort. So I think, my genetics are OK.

Then Jordan Hutchinson walks in, and it reminds me why I never competed. There's nothing I could do to look like that, and I'm glad I realized it early and didn't kill myself trying to.

This chick I met was telling me about her ex. He's the same age as me, 48. Still chasing his pro card, broke as fuck. She says he has serious kidney issues. Some people just can't accept that they don't have it. I don't think there's too many guys in their 40s that still think they're going to make it in the NFL, but you see it in bodybuilding...

serious question but why would you need to be broke as fuck to chase a pro card? Can't he have a career, get up early, do his cardio and train after work?

John meadows looked pretty awesome doing that and many others do, so I don't get this mindset. Or is he spending all his money on pharma gh?

 

[control]

serious question but why would you need to be broke as fuck to chase a pro card? Can't he have a career, get up early, do his cardio and train after work?

John meadows looked pretty awesome doing that and many others do, so I don't get this mindset. Or is he spending all his money on pharma gh?

Oh I'm not saying you have to be broke to chase a pro card. I don't think that at all. Cutler, Branch Warren, Joe Mackey, tons of guys make great money in and out of bodybuilding and still have success on stage.
I'm pretty sure this dude I'm talking about is broke because he doesn’t have a job. He just mooches off women because "bodybuilding is his job". Yet, he makes no money from it....

 

[Wayacrucis]

Genetics is absolutely everything in bodybuilding. Here is a picture of me (shirtless) with my coach a few weeks out from my first show at the age of 21. 6'0, I competed as a light heavy weight around 195lbs.

I am now 35. Yes...35. 14 years later and last I competed was a year ago and I was at 209lbs on stage. So I gained a measly 15lbs of tissue in the last 14 years. There isn't a single year where i stopped bodybuilding.

I initially started training at the age of 16. First cycle was at 19. Going by this photo, you would think this kid has good potential looking like this at the age of 21, especially back in the 2010 era. Yet... I was fairly close to my "genetic peak" at the age of 21, and there wasn't a whole lot more tissue to gain. In all honestly, I didn't look a whole lot better than here last I competed, and my knowledge when it comes to training, nutrution, aas, supplements, etc is 1000000 folds higher.

 

[massephase]

Genetics is absolutely everything in bodybuilding. Here is a picture of me (shirtless) with my coach a few weeks out from my first show at the age of 21. 6'0, I competed as a light heavy weight around 195lbs.

I am now 35. Yes...35. 14 years later and last I competed was a year ago and I was at 209lbs on stage. So I gained a measly 15lbs of tissue in the last 14 years. There isn't a single year where i stopped bodybuilding.

I initially started training at the age of 16. First cycle was at 19. Going by this photo, you would think this kid has good potential looking like this at the age of 21, especially back in the 2010 era. Yet... I was fairly close to my "genetic peak" at the age of 21, and there wasn't a whole lot more tissue to gain. In all honestly, I didn't look a whole lot better than here last I competed, and my knowledge when it comes to training, nutrution, aas, supplements, etc is 1000000 folds higher.

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So what happened during your offseasons when you pushed up? Did you always end up getting fatter at roughly the same weight and diet down to roughly the same weight?
I imagine you would simply increase gear at the point where you get fatter with more food and continue up this way - and then slowly go from e.g. 1g offseason to 2-3g offseason etc. and in parallel push up food and training.

I just find it hard to believe that if you wanted to grow during all of those years, you couldn't do it - but I don't have the experience to make a judgement here at all. Do you think there was some other limiting factor like, for example, you didn't want to go beyond a certain level of AAS/GH/Insulin?

 

[Josefein421]

I get the "genetic limit" thing. Like I will never be a pro bodybuilder the same way I will never dunk a basketball. But I think the great thing about strength/physique sports is there is always a way do "get better" thus never at your "limit". Stronger overall, stronger at a lighter bodyweight, leaner, bigger, more full at same body fat, bring up XXX body part, etc.

I dont think I could ever go to the gym, train, follow a diet, etc absentmindedly. I need to have something to work towards. I think mostly everyone here is the same. Just a different take on "genetic limit". We can always get better in some way imo

 

[Wayacrucis]

So what happened during your offseasons when you pushed up? Did you always end up getting fatter at roughly the same weight and diet down to roughly the same weight?
I imagine you would simply increase gear at the point where you get fatter with more food and continue up this way - and then slowly go from e.g. 1g offseason to 2-3g offseason etc. and in parallel push up food and training.

I just find it hard to believe that if you wanted to grow during all of those years, you couldn't do it - but I don't have the experience to make a judgement here at all. Do you think there was some other limiting factor like, for example, you didn't want to go beyond a certain level of AAS/GH/Insulin?

1. You're correct. Yes. Most off seasons I would plateau around 230-240lbs.

2. I never pushed gear past 1.6g/week. I ran the standard 1g Test E and 600mg Deca in the off season for a solid 3-4 years. I had GH in there, around 4-6IU per day. Dabbled with Humalog for a while, sometimes pre, sometimes post, didn't like it.

3. I do have some anatomical limitations that most people would not be able to relate to. Even though I am 6'0, which is considered tall for a bodybuilder, I appear to be even taller, because I have relatively long legs and short torso. To put this into perspective, go look at Cbum, he's 185cm, I am 184cm. Now take away 20% of the height in his torso and add it to his legs. That's my structure. This makes it incredibly challenging to build monster quads, as it makes quad training rather difficult. Despite mobility work and heel elevated squats, by time I am bellow parallel in a back squat my torso is very bent over. When it comes to hack squats, pendulum, leg press, etc - my knees have to travel so far past my toes to get an optimal stretch on my quads that my knees take a huge beating. Combine this the every toll of walking around while just being a heavier guy in the off season, you have a guy with very sore knees that can't train his quads to their completion potential.

On to the arms, I have short tricep and bicep insertions. You can't see that in the picture I posted, because I have a neutral grip, as opposed to a supinated grip. Combine this with long arms, and you get a guy that can't really build big arms.

The final icing on the cake is that I have a minor rotational scoliosis. Meaning, my one shoulder is a bit more forward than the other. This is a skeletal issue that cannot be fixed. This imposed some limitations on me from the beginning of my bodybuilding journey. Certain bi-lateral exercises such as bb bench press, over head tricep variations, bb shoulder press and absolute nos for me. Imagine benching 315lbs, with the bar being crooked. It's an Injury waiting to happen.

All that said, aside from the scoliosis, I wouldn't consider myself an anomaly. Everyone has genetic limitations, mine just happen to limit my ability to train muscle groups as hard i'd like to , grow certain muscle groups due to insertion limitations and execute certain exercises.

So what stopped me exactly from growing once I hit 230-240lbs? I wasn't able to get stronger on most lifts anymore without getting injured. Judges always criticized my arms. So what'd I do? train my arms as hard and as optimally as possible. But what do you do when your elbow says fuck you and gives you degenerate tendonosis, even though you're being intelligent about your choice of exercises? My training wasn't progressing anymore. I tried upping the gear a few times from 1.6g to 2g and increasing food, while training with lighter weights, higher reps and still going to failure, but my body wouldn't respond.

 

[Josefein421]

1. You're correct. Yes. Most off seasons I would plateau around 230-240lbs.

2. I never pushed gear past 1.6g/week. I ran the standard 1g Test E and 600mg Deca in the off season for a solid 3-4 years. I had GH in there, around 4-6IU per day. Dabbled with Humalog for a while, sometimes pre, sometimes post, didn't like it.



So what stopped me exactly from growing once I hit 230-240lbs? I wasn't able to get stronger on most lifts anymore without getting injured. Judges always criticized my arms. So what'd I do? train my arms as hard and as optimally as possible. But what do you do when your elbow says fuck you and gives you degenerate tendonosis, even though you're being intelligent about your choice of exercises? My training wasn't progressing anymore. I tried upping the gear a few times from 1.6g to 2g and increasing food, while training with lighter weights, higher reps and still going to failure, but my body wouldn't respond.

I have a hard time believing you hit your genetic limit of muscle mass at 21yrs old. You tried "upping the gear a few times and increasing food". It doesnt sound like this was a consistent approach? Did you work with a coach at all during those times?

I mean I think you look great in the pic but just believe under the guidance of Dom, Luki, etc you could've progressed more. Or still can. Maybe not because of the anatomical issues you stated mean 35 is still plenty young and a good coach can find ways to work with the issues/limitations of the client.