Has anyone lowered test dose from 20mg to 10mg per day?

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Guys have bullshitted quite a lot on here about coming fully off over the years. They act like they can maintain their physique on nothing for years. It's nonsense. I see these days people are more honest about this stuff but there are still a few who lie on social media. I think for some of them they consider TRT (probably a high dose from a clinic in the US) coming off everything. Well they don't consider it as they know it's not but that's how they word things when talking/posting about it. Many also consider loading themselves up with PCT drugs and HCG for 1-2 months as coming fully off.

It's very easy to maintain even a big physique on approx 200mg test per week. The same for 140mg or even 70mg... it's very possible. Although I don't think 70mg will suit everyone and some have even come back with low levels at that dose. Sure dosing it daily is improving the efficiency and it can make a huge difference in results and minimizing potential side effects. However at the end of the day 70mg is still 70mg and some simply need more for optimal levels of total/free testosterone. I personally cruise on 150mg test e/c per week or if I can be bothered 20mg test p ed.

It's night and day when you come off everything though. Sometimes I don't feel too bad but I don't stay off that long. Everytime though my joints will feel horrible and my energy levels will be low. Last time I done it I thought to myself still train just as hard and I drove my body into the ground. Sure you can maintain weight on nothing but it won't look the same. Obviously it's not like a freak of 5ft 8 250 pounds super lean is not still going to look great after 6 months off nothing if diet and training or on point. But that on look is due to simply being on and with zero test you will soften up and just not have the same look and definitely not the same mentality.

You know all of that though and it's not like you would ever come off TRT so you are gtg. I honestly don't think coming down to 70mg per week will change your blood work that much. But give it ago as you only know if you try. See for yourself and you don't have anything to lose. Well maybe a few pounds but I am sure that would be the max and you would have it back within a few weeks of having normal-high testosterone levels.

I went down to 70 mgs a week during vacation where I didnt touch a weight. I felt mine was low sometimes and good other times while on 10 mgs for a week.

I think Im predisposed to androgenic alopecia so keeping my levels lower helps, and while going higher test finasteride. also limiting and not using , stuff that accelerate my hair leaving my head.

I maintain my size just fine, as long as Im training. Ive even found a way to increase size on trt, transitioning from the cycle to trt, and on trt for the next two months.

It is important for my health to take breaks and go down to trt doses.

is everyone getting their blood-work done ?

 

[nothuman]

'indeed, others have postulated that the increased rates of polycythemia with short-acting testosterone esters are due to supraphysiological levels of testosterone (1, 4, 5). If true, longer acting testosterone preparations such as testosterone implants and i.m. injections of testosterone undecanoate, which do not cause prolonged supraphysiological testosterone levels when administered at appropriate doses (6), may therefore result in a lesser degree of erythrocytosis. In support of this hypothesis, direct relationships between testosterone and hematocrit have already been demonstrated (2, 3, 7).'

https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/eje/162/2/385.xml

^I couldn't watch it on my phone tho.

Maybe you could hypothesis that the frequent injections you're doing are causing bigger spikes than only 1 shot per week would?

Thanks for sharing!

Some guys claim they feel so much better after donating, that it's like an oil change. I have never felt any different after donating.

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I've never really felt any different after either. I think some people get a placebo effect from it.

Thanks for that info I never stated otherwise. I agree if a guy can get away with 70mg or even 40mg TRT then great. All I meant was I have seen a few guys post stating 10mg ed had their levels too low. I am sure for the majority of people 10mg ed is more than enough to get by and feel good etc. I tried 10mg ed for a short time and I felt fine. Perhaps others may require a little more to be in the good side of normal range. I would rather my levels be quite high so I stick to 20mg per day when cruising. Although I am all for the 10mg ed protocol if someone wants to do that and I feel it's a great approach.

I don't think there can be definites when it comes to TRT and the prostate. But sure I would assume 70mg is better for the prostate than 140mg or 210mg etc but I don't think you can outright say any dose will not cause prostate problems. I get why you do but it's even be shown test (trt) can play an important part in treating BPH/LUTS in older men. There is little evidence actual TRT will lead to prostate problems but the possibility is always there especially when it's a normal thing for any aging male trt or not. Interestingly castration or androgen deprivation treatments should definitely lead to decreases in prostate size but I don't think there are any definites with trt as it can go either way.

Latest research shows true TRT isn't bad for the prostate.

I would agree that my test levels will probably be terrible on 10mg at least on paper. If they are 700-900 total and 20-25 free on 20mg, then I have to think they'll be half of that on 10mg. I think the happy medium here is switching from 20mg ED to 30mg EOD, which is a drop from 140mg to 105mg.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I'm using cyp. I haven't seen any evidence or anecdotal reports showing prop raises RBC production more than cyp.

If someone has personal experience though, please share

You are correct. Pro only increases the initial undesired testosterone peak and worsens the pharmacokinetic profile.

 

[emeric delczeg]

You know the rules. No pics of the "alleged" erection or it didn't happen.

Here go.

 

[johnjuanb1]

JJ you started HRT yesterday and all of that happened last night and today?

Yeah. I feel much better. I’m training legs right now and my strength is up a lot. I have always responded very quickly to drugs. The hard part for me will be keeping it at an HRT dose when i see how big and ripped everyone at the gym is.

 

[johnjuanb1]

All of that is normal with AAS, they hype up your CNS pretty drastically and I noticed this as I got older. Not so much when I was younger but these drugs are very very powerful hence our bloodwork and moods being altered.

I mean no disrespect but the short esters and addition of nandralone make me question whether or not this is truly considered TRT

Short esters are so I can get it out of my system quickly if my sciatica comes back. Last time it took 30 days for the pain to reduce to where i wasn’t bed ridden. My last injection had sustanon in it with the one month half life. It’s my belief once the sustanon began to leave my system I began to improve.

P.S. what you say is very valid. I’m vexed in that I fear health issues returning equally to wanting to look competition ready again. Especially while training I feel the bug to get big and ripped. it’s an addiction haha

 

[Joltan]

Have you been tested for sleep apnea?

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Instead of lowering the test dose, you could try micro-dosing a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor like Dutasteride. No more than 0.1 mg per day though, so you'd need a very good pill-cutter to pull it off.

Though to be honest, I would not be concerned with an HCT of 55 if platelets are normal and if you don't have any genetic risk factors for thrombophilia. The HIIT cardio you do probably contributes quite a bit to the high HCT, too. Plus, there is no need for extreme measures, maybe a 10% reduction in your test dose will already do the trick. So I would either go the Dutasteride route or try gradually decreasing the dose over the coming years.

 

[nothuman]

Instead of lowering the test dose, you could try micro-dosing a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor like Dutasteride. No more than 0.1 mg per day though, so you'd need a very good pill-cutter to pull it off.

Though to be honest, I would not be concerned with an HCT of 55 if platelets are normal and if you don't have any genetic risk factors for thrombophilia. The HIIT cardio you do probably contributes quite a bit to the high HCT, too. Plus, there is no need for extreme measures, maybe a 10% reduction in your test dose will already do the trick. So I would either go the Dutasteride route or try gradually decreasing the dose over the coming years.

HIIT raises hematocrit? This is the first I am hearing about this.

Hematocrit actually jumped to 60 when I didn't donate for a while, which freaked me out enough I sprinted to the nearest blood drive without hesitating. I let it ride at 55 but 60 was something I'd never seen before on my bloodwork and ferritin was 95. Of course since donating twice, hematocrit is probably down to 55 and ferritin is lower as well. What do you think about a 60 hematocrit with normal platelets and no genetic risk factors?

Super low dose Dutasteride is an interesting idea. I'd never researched it or anything before since I never had to worry about anything prostate related but I'll give it some thought.

 

[nothuman]

Have you been tested for sleep apnea?

I've never really felt a need truthfully since I have zero symptoms related to it. I guess higher hematocrit could be considered one but nothing else.

 

[opietaylor]

ummm how bout 15mg. why completely cut the dose in half, thats pretty drastic. thru patience and lots of blood test I have ended at 16mg per day which puts me in the 800s and stable without phlebotomies at a 17.1 hemoglobin/52 hematocrit.

 

[M@NU]

have you ever thought about switching to gels if this is ok for your insurance?
there are numerous studies that show that gels do not elevate HCT/Hemo as much as injections do (even at the same testosterone level)
Those newer gel versions are not as bad as many people think they are.

 

[Bio]

Yeah. I feel much better. I’m training legs right now and my strength is up a lot. I have always responded very quickly to drugs. The hard part for me will be keeping it at an HRT dose when i see how big and ripped everyone at the gym is.

That's where you need to be careful! At our age and issues, it's not about PR's anymore. Train smart my friend!!

 

[nothuman]

ummm how bout 15mg. why completely cut the dose in half, thats pretty drastic. thru patience and lots of blood test I have ended at 16mg per day which puts me in the 800s and stable without phlebotomies at a 17.1 hemoglobin/52 hematocrit.

I already said I will switch to 15mg (30mg EOD) twice in the last two pages.

have you ever thought about switching to gels if this is ok for your insurance?
there are numerous studies that show that gels do not elevate HCT/Hemo as much as injections do (even at the same testosterone level)
Those newer gel versions are not as bad as many people think they are.

I haven't. Have you gone from injections to the gel?

 

[M@NU]

I already said I will switch to 15mg (30mg EOD) twice in the last two pages.



I haven't. Have you gone from injections to the gel?

ive started on inj in septembre last year but changed my doctor (from urologist to andrologist) because i was not ok with the E3W injection of 250mg and he did refuse to switch me. I have felt terrible.
went to an andrologist in novembre and asked him if he would be okay with the gel and he said it is usually his first choice. He just switches if the person does not absorb the gel which is around 10% of the ppl.
I have started with 2 pumps of 1,62% gel and my test level was 1300 4 hours after appl. So we lowered to 1,5 pumps and this puts me around 700ng around 4 hours after appl.
All in all i feel much better with the gel.
with the gel, my htc and hemo barely went up (they did slightly, but are still far from the high end). Trt compared to test levels of below 100 even improved my cholesterol and my heart condition. BP did not rise at all (still below 130/80)

 

[emeric delczeg]

Yeah. I feel much better. I’m training legs right now and my strength is up a lot. I have always responded very quickly to drugs. The hard part for me will be keeping it at an HRT dose when i see how big and ripped everyone at the gym is.

How many mg per week?

 

[johnjuanb1]

How many mg per week?

70mg testosterone per week
35mg nandrolone per week

 

[maldorf]

My numbers from my last visit to the endo

I injected 100 mg test cyp on Sunday around 11 am. The blood test sample was taken Monday around 10:30 am, so about 24 hours later.

testosterone total: 892

Male Free 190

 

[Delt123]

I injected 100 mg test cyp on Sunday around 11 am. The blood test sample was taken Monday around 10:30 am, so about 24 hours later.

testosterone total: 892

Male Free 190

Ever tested it on a saterday, so 6 days after the last pin?

 

[maldorf]

Ever tested it on a saterday, so 6 days after the last pin?

No, but Id like to see the numbers. Being a long ester I don't think it would be below therapeutic level though. Where mine is a day later is on the high end. I get it tested when I see him in the office. I feel well the whole week though. Really not much difference between how I feel Monday and on Sunday when it is time for another injection. The only thing I can notice is that sex drive is much higher on Monday.