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Has the scientific community improved training/physics in the the past 15 years?

but most if not all people do respond the same. in a controlled study.
we r lab rats tho.
so our results r all over the place i suppose lol
It would be impossible to really do a controlled study on competitive bodybuilders. How are you gonna find 20 plus guys at that level who are willing to drop their current training style and do whatever the study is prescribing for 10 plus weeks? It’ll likely never happen. And I don’t know what studies your reading but people definitely do not respond the same
 
Yep same guy broke his own record earlier this year it looks like
Very impressive when you see the actual distance he moves the bar and the absence of an obscene arch. The pause is pretty legit as well and WAY MORE than I have seen in many a video of "official" lifts. He is a beast!
 
Try not to make absolute statements. It may be true for some but I think for most they're looking to actually enhance their training, diet, recovery and find another level. We're always looking for ways to improve and I think the thirst for knowledge is what fuels us to look in every nook and cranny for information that can get us there. Like LATS, I'm a research junkie. Lastly, and I've said this before, consistency is key.
I too love the research, even if it's just for curiosity's sake.

Anyone who thinks that after barely studying this subject for say 50 years we have everything completely figured out makes me laugh. Name one thing we humans completely figured out, EVER, let alone in a small amount of time that is 50 years.................................


I am NOT saying any of this has to be complicated on the individual level but the nuts and bolts of it all in the physiological sense are probably a little more nuanced than 1+1=2.
 
Very impressive when you see the actual distance he moves the bar and the absence of an obscene arch. The pause is pretty legit as well and WAY MORE than I have seen in many a video of "official" lifts. He is a beast!
I know it ! Wow. You can see the weight pushing in his chest, that's a very legit press of the bar from a complete state of no motion.
 
The more you invest in a set of beliefs, the greater the sacrifice you
make in the service of that conviction and the more resistant you will be
to evidence that suggests that you are mistaken. You don't give up.
You double down.

Hence the increase of bodybuilder deaths, injuries, health issues, etc.

You double down.

My opinion.
 
The more you invest in a set of beliefs, the greater the sacrifice you
make in the service of that conviction and the more resistant you will be
to evidence that suggests that you are mistaken. You don't give up.
You double down.

Hence the increase of bodybuilder deaths, injuries, health issues, etc.

You double down.

My opinion.
I agree. I think it's hard for people in general to admit they were wrong for so long.
 
I agree. I think it's hard for people in general to admit they were wrong for so long.
Yes. I agree. We are all guilty of some cognitive dissonance amidst our long held beliefs. None of us are immune. I was just reading an article in Scientific American about the difficulty of changing minds. It mentions research and study done in this area. The truth is that we are in a pinch between a rock and a hard place. Everyone saw the variety of opinions we got on daily, every other day, daily injections. Much of this is information that either a) has been handed down or b) gleaned off the internet. There are books, some of them mentioned here are very authoritative. But mostly it's dogmatic beliefs stemming from a) and b).

I always had a coach, then later, gym partner, or a physical trainer usually looking over my shoulder. Never did much reading other than collegiate level textbooks on kinesiology, human biology, chemistry, etc. I love that stuff. Just like we're somewhat flexible in our training styles (open to new things) we need to be open to new things in every area. For example, I'm going to try qd subq dosing for a month or two and see if it really is better. Even though everything I think I know says it shouldn't matter, there was enough anecdotal info to green light at least experimenting with it.

In regards to OP, the biggest thing I've noticed is that hugeness and strong masculinity are going out of vogue in lieu of more slim athletic bodies. Over the last 30 years, I've seen a huge rise in feminism and a societal shift in the view of strength and masculinity as toxic. This is not a political cudgel, this is a worldwide societal shift. I get labeled misogynistic right off the bat because I'm fairly big. Funny though, that after mass on Sunday, the kids love using me as a jungle gym.

And if children and animals like you, you're probably alright.

Here's that Sci Am article:
 
Yes. I agree. We are all guilty of some cognitive dissonance amidst our long held beliefs. None of us are immune. I was just reading an article in Scientific American about the difficulty of changing minds. It mentions research and study done in this area. The truth is that we are in a pinch between a rock and a hard place. Everyone saw the variety of opinions we got on daily, every other day, daily injections. Much of this is information that either a) has been handed down or b) gleaned off the internet. There are books, some of them mentioned here are very authoritative. But mostly it's dogmatic beliefs stemming from a) and b).

I always had a coach, then later, gym partner, or a physical trainer usually looking over my shoulder. Never did much reading other than collegiate level textbooks on kinesiology, human biology, chemistry, etc. I love that stuff. Just like we're somewhat flexible in our training styles (open to new things) we need to be open to new things in every area. For example, I'm going to try qd subq dosing for a month or two and see if it really is better. Even though everything I think I know says it shouldn't matter, there was enough anecdotal info to green light at least experimenting with it.

In regards to OP, the biggest thing I've noticed is that hugeness and strong masculinity are going out of vogue in lieu of more slim athletic bodies. Over the last 30 years, I've seen a huge rise in feminism and a societal shift in the view of strength and masculinity as toxic. This is not a political cudgel, this is a worldwide societal shift. I get labeled misogynistic right off the bat because I'm fairly big. Funny though, that after mass on Sunday, the kids love using me as a jungle gym.

And if children and animals like you, you're probably alright.

Here's that Sci Am article:
It's frustrating how muscular guys can be stereotyped without any criticism, but do the same to someone that is fat then they jump all over you.

The double standard is strong today.
 
Yes. I agree. We are all guilty of some cognitive dissonance amidst our long held beliefs. None of us are immune. I was just reading an article in Scientific American about the difficulty of changing minds. It mentions research and study done in this area. The truth is that we are in a pinch between a rock and a hard place. Everyone saw the variety of opinions we got on daily, every other day, daily injections. Much of this is information that either a) has been handed down or b) gleaned off the internet. There are books, some of them mentioned here are very authoritative. But mostly it's dogmatic beliefs stemming from a) and b).

I always had a coach, then later, gym partner, or a physical trainer usually looking over my shoulder. Never did much reading other than collegiate level textbooks on kinesiology, human biology, chemistry, etc. I love that stuff. Just like we're somewhat flexible in our training styles (open to new things) we need to be open to new things in every area. For example, I'm going to try qd subq dosing for a month or two and see if it really is better. Even though everything I think I know says it shouldn't matter, there was enough anecdotal info to green light at least experimenting with it.

In regards to OP, the biggest thing I've noticed is that hugeness and strong masculinity are going out of vogue in lieu of more slim athletic bodies. Over the last 30 years, I've seen a huge rise in feminism and a societal shift in the view of strength and masculinity as toxic. This is not a political cudgel, this is a worldwide societal shift. I get labeled misogynistic right off the bat because I'm fairly big. Funny though, that after mass on Sunday, the kids love using me as a jungle gym.

And if children and animals like you, you're probably alright.

Here's that Sci Am article:

Sci Am . . . great link / article Ouch. Much appreciated. Also, in that article,
check out the link the The New Yorker article. (Illuminating to me.)
 
Sci Am . . . great link / article Ouch. Much appreciated. Also, in that article,
check out the link the The New Yorker article. (Illuminating to me.)
It really is. That's the portion that involved the study of 2000 parents and "changing their minds" on vaccines whereas, the more that facts were presented, the more people dig their heels in if, AND ONLY IF, that belief is tied to something involving the person's worldview, religion, party affiliations, etc - the belief is no longer factual. It's tied to that individual's self. As if learning the truth will somehow put cracks in their most fundamental beliefs as a person. In those cases, you're talking to a brick wall. Worse, you'll only make them more vocal in their misinformational world.

Adherence to these dogmatic beliefs is straight-up dangerous. And there has sprung up, a whole industry making billions off of stirring up and affirming this misinformation, and using rage to sink those purchasers of misinformation even deeper into the multi-million dollar grievance engine. It's amazing to think that merely tapping human beings' cognitive dissonance is causing death, pollution, obesity, feminization, even toppling governments. It's astonishing!
 
A lot of people here are either small, dumb, weak, or unable to provide proper context.

I like what LATS said, about teaching us what NOT to do.

You can’t bring up genetic outliers and pros on obscene doses to prove anything. Look up the list of logical fallacies and you’ll find most of the arguments in this thread.

That being said… modern methods are absolutely using better technique. They are also promoting a more logical, well planned strategy for slow, progressive gains.

Many old school guys sound borderline retarded while explaining diet or training. They mustered up most of their gains from extreme effort (in spite of atrocious form), plenty of food (in spite of nutrient deficiencies), and lots of drugs. They also bulked to the extreme and cut to the extreme.

The missing piece is how to effectively combine both. Today’s guys are too busy planning their deloads and RIR’ing themselves to death. They don’t push food, and they don’t push their levels of intensity. It’s TOO planned out.

Successful bodybuilders, more often than not, need to master walking the tight rope of danger (training/diet/drugs). You need to find the most you can do of each variable successfully without breaking your body. Each variable has a different answer for each individual. The trickiest part is how to harmonize them.

Think about the innovations and innovators we’ve had in the sport. Most involve something more extreme than the previous generation.

What today’s generation has done is turn an overwhelming number of beginners into low level intermediates with low expectations. What we DON’T have from this generation; intermediates turning into monsters.

Walking into a gym as a high schooler 20 years a go and benching 3 plates was sort of no big deal. Anything less than 4 plates wasn’t impressive. Now? Anyone with 3 plates on the bar is the jacked guy.

I’m 25lbs smaller than I used to be, and 99% of the time, I’m by far the most freakish guy walking around the gym. People look at me like I’m an alien, and I’m only 250-260. 210 today is considered “jacked”.

Now I’m just ranting, but hopefully I’ve made some valid points.
 
Most successful athletes are going to need to stretch their limitations, not hold themselves back in the name of RIR’s and deloads.

The top 10 guys in the LHW, HW, and SHW at Nationals, and all pros in the open… by and large… are the guys pushing the boundaries, not using the textbook to form them.
 
It really is. That's the portion that involved the study of 2000 parents and "changing their minds" on vaccines whereas, the more that facts were presented, the more people dig their heels in if, AND ONLY IF, that belief is tied to something involving the person's worldview, religion, party affiliations, etc - the belief is no longer factual. It's tied to that individual's self. As if learning the truth will somehow put cracks in their most fundamental beliefs as a person. In those cases, you're talking to a brick wall. Worse, you'll only make them more vocal in their misinformational world.

Adherence to these dogmatic beliefs is straight-up dangerous. And there has sprung up, a whole industry making billions off of stirring up and affirming this misinformation, and using rage to sink those purchasers of misinformation even deeper into the multi-million dollar grievance engine. It's amazing to think that merely tapping human beings' cognitive dissonance is causing death, pollution, obesity, feminization, even toppling governments. It's astonishing!
I ran into that teaching the theory of evolution as a high school teacher.
 
It would be impossible to really do a controlled study on competitive bodybuilders. How are you gonna find 20 plus guys at that level who are willing to drop their current training style and do whatever the study is prescribing for 10 plus weeks? It’ll likely never happen. And I don’t know what studies your reading but people definitely do not respond the same
men that have low test ALL benefit from trt. is one example of a whole group having same benefits of a hormone
all test subjects that do some sort of exercise routine get results compared to a group that didnt exercise.
so in GENERAL ALL humans kinda respond same to hormones and exercise. they gain muscle.
thats what i meant i guess...
 
It's easy to think that but it's just not the case. Please show me a Pullover machine that it is superior to an old Nautilus Pullover. Okay, so not many companies actually make a Pullover machine. Show me a better plate loaded Chest Press than the Flex Leverage Chest Press. If we're talking about machines from the last ten years, even twenty years, you won't find one. Nebula made a great Hack Squat on par with Flex's, Cybex, and the Bodymaster but other than that, a better one doesn't exist. Again, 80 and maybe early 90's saw the best pieces coming out IMO.
It’s not so much better, but the angles and the science behind the movement of the exercise is is better for the muscle.
Such as, a safer, more controlled movement , less chance of injury.
Just like cell phones have evolved so have machines , tho like phones they all “call” and most text some do slightly better than other.

I honestly prefer old school machines, I think they have a better feel. But if I had to select something to use for rest of my life, id take new machines with all the gizmos and proper angles as I think it’s a healthier option.
Biggest thing is the squat, squats are proving to put enormous strain on the body over time, your seeing many machines / inventions coming out to aid this.
 
It’s not so much better, but the angles and the science behind the movement of the exercise is is better for the muscle.
Such as, a safer, more controlled movement , less chance of injury.
Just like cell phones have evolved so have machines , tho like phones they all “call” and most text some do slightly better than other.

I honestly prefer old school machines, I think they have a better feel. But if I had to select something to use for rest of my life, id take new machines with all the gizmos and proper angles as I think it’s a healthier option.
Biggest thing is the squat, squats are proving to put enormous strain on the body over time, your seeing many machines / inventions coming out to aid this.
What are some examples of new machines that you like?
 
Good question. I think exercise science has, in regards to bodybuilding, been mostly EXPLANATORY. Meaning, the vets figured out a lot about using different exercises to train different muscles and parts of muscles, and only recently has that been validated. There might be some work on the optimal number of sets/reps (ie., it will boil down to an optimal frequency and quantity of contractions, I believe- perhaps eventually being accomplished without resistance training). Bodybuilders have always pushed the edge with PEDs, technologies that science (especially Medicine) was in denial about even working (see presently, rhGH) and for years avoided research on androgens and myotrophy (thank you Bhasin). Now we have dose-response studies.

A lot of recent exercise science research is validating some areas that were already in practice for many years. There is also, for some sport, advances that have been made (e.g., VBT, BFR, etc.)

But nothing is going to lead the charge as much as bodybuilders willing to take risks to prove what is possible.
 
What are some examples of new machines that you like?
Hey man, replying so I don’t forget but I’ll look specifically at some of the lat machines (single handed with arms) and others like that and give you specifics of what I see next time at gym. Im in a USCG class all day for the week so 15 hours a day I can’t leave a room so I doubt I’ll get to a gym until Monday but I’ll look then and get back to you
 

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