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Have I been on too long?

Southern Comfort

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May 1, 2005
Messages
138
Ive been running 600 TestE and 600mg Eq for 15 weeks and been running 50mg Win/day for the past 3 weeks, plan on running it 6 weeks I also run 500iu of HCG/week. I dont feel like Ive gained the LBM and loss the fat I was expecting by any means. My diet is decent and my triaining is spot on, it is possible my receptors are fried??? I have an unlmited supply, should I drop down to just an HRT dose of test for a month and then blast back at it again? I know the golden rule is equal time on as off but its HARD to do when you have unlimited amounts.
 
perhaps you have hit a plateau at those doses. change something.
change diet, or hormones, or training. if none of that breaks the plateua then maybe you are near the end in terms of gains you will see with those compounds at those doses.
or maybe, you have not done too many cycles and you expected to blow up as big as ronnie coleman in 14 weeks?????
this is a marathon NOT a sprint.
i don't know your level of experience so just guessing...
and depending on how you feel about it you don't have to come off...ever. many people don't. and are healthy and happy. -STEELE
 
Receptors don't get "fried" **broken link removed** and there are other articles you can read about the supposed down regulation of receptors. Its other various reasons why gains cease. Like our friend SHBG. The body is always looking for homeostasis and it will find it eventually no matter what you are taking. Best way to cycle in my own opinion if you are going to be cruising would be cruising with Test E 250mg/week to every other week and doing cycles every 8 weeks for 8 weeks. I find that for me despite what I'm taking my gains usually cease around the 8-10 week mark. Get off high doses when you reach that stop in your progress. Take out all other compounds besides Test, lower the test to an HRT amount, then the body will adjust after a couple months to the lower amount of anabolism and androgens and then spike it up again with another cycle.

Now I'm not saying I'm 100% right on all this. May need some more knowledgeable people to comment on this.
 
I do

Pretty much the same thing,blast n cruise but 10-12 wks.Get bloodwork twice a year Very inportant!After a while trt can raise RBC/HCT levels,amoung others!I have been on about 3 years blast n cruise!
 
Downregulation

Ive been running 600 TestE and 600mg Eq for 15 weeks and been running 50mg Win/day for the past 3 weeks, plan on running it 6 weeks I also run 500iu of HCG/week. I dont feel like Ive gained the LBM and loss the fat I was expecting by any means. My diet is decent and my triaining is spot on, it is possible my receptors are fried??? I have an unlmited supply, should I drop down to just an HRT dose of test for a month and then blast back at it again? I know the golden rule is equal time on as off but its HARD to do when you have unlimited amounts.

Androgen receptors (AR) don't get "fried" (whatever that means) but they do get downregulated as a consequence of their rate of binding exceeding their rate of synthesis. It isn't really a homeostatic mechanism it just a physical limit.

The AR is a protein molecule embedded in the membrane or cytoplasm of various androgen sensitive cells (eg. skeletal muscle cells). The AAS that you are ingesting and injecting -- and their androgenic/anabolic metabolites -- eventually bind with the AR and form what is termed a steroid-receptor complex (SRC). The SRC migrates to the nucleus of the cell to eventually produce the androgenic/anabolic response i.e. growth. So the AR that was once in the cytoplasm of the cell waiting to bind to a steroid is no more, it is now in the nucleus of the cell causing proteins to be synthesised. The AR that became an SRC has to be replaced if the cell is to retain its androgen responsiveness. Sythesising AR takes time and materials (amino acids) it doesn't happen "automagically". When the rate of SRC formation exceeds the rate of AR synthesis the cell experiences a net reduction in AR and the cell consequently loses androgen sensitivity, the same amount of androgen now produces less of an androgenic/anabolic response, i.e. it becomes downregulated.

Dosing protocols such as blast 'n' cruise are intended to avoid the downregulation that occurs as a result of constant high doses. The "crusing" period gives the muscle cells a chance to restore their AR and to even proliferate ARs i.e. add new ones.

(I am really tired at the moment (leg day) so this may not be as lucid as intended. I will revisit the matter tomorrow and may add diagrams if this will aid clarity.)
 
I read **broken link removed** and it seems misinformed. That AAS cause AR proliferation isn't in dispute. AAS cause AR proliferation by extending the half-life of existing AR and by stimulating the synthesis of new AR and -- contrary to the article -- this process has little to do with satellite cells[1]. This process of AR augementation doesn't imply that downregulation can't happen.

Also, the article refers to ARs as if they are like fixtures in a house

The increase in receptors is the reason you can use more and more test every cycle, and the funny thing is these receptors once built will hang around for a very long time even years ever increasing your ability to build muscle.

In fact AR have a half-life -- with our without AAS -- that is measured in hours[1]. AR are proteins and they experience degradation. ARs are being turned over everyday.

More later...
 
WOW.... very good info guys, much appreciated. Ill probably bump my EQ up to 800, drop the test down to 250, clean my liver up for 6-8 weeks and then bump my test to 750 and hit some a-bombs for a month.

Blast and cruise.... I like that theory. I also quit gaining around week 8, but with compounds like EQ you need to use for 12+ weeks to get any good effects.
 
Some interesting articles there
 
i wouldn't call that a cruise...

WOW.... very good info guys, much appreciated. Ill probably bump my EQ up to 800, drop the test down to 250, clean my liver up for 6-8 weeks and then bump my test to 750 and hit some a-bombs for a month.

Blast and cruise.... I like that theory. I also quit gaining around week 8, but with compounds like EQ you need to use for 12+ weeks to get any good effects.

thats alot of eq bro. a cruise would be more like 250-500mg test and THATS IT. then add ther comppounds. waiting 14-16 weeks for eq to "kick in" is a good reason why its not a great anabolic to run. takes too long for such little gains IMO. worst thing ever to blast with prolly. -JS
 
Androgen receptors (AR) don't get "fried" (whatever that means) but they do get downregulated as a consequence of their rate of binding exceeding their rate of synthesis. It isn't really a homeostatic mechanism it just a physical limit.

The AR is a protein molecule embedded in the membrane or cytoplasm of various androgen sensitive cells (eg. skeletal muscle cells). The AAS that you are ingesting and injecting -- and their androgenic/anabolic metabolites -- eventually bind with the AR and form what is termed a steroid-receptor complex (SRC). The SRC migrates to the nucleus of the cell to eventually produce the androgenic/anabolic response i.e. growth. So the AR that was once in the cytoplasm of the cell waiting to bind to a steroid is no more, it is now in the nucleus of the cell causing proteins to be synthesised. The AR that became an SRC has to be replaced if the cell is to retain its androgen responsiveness. Sythesising AR takes time and materials (amino acids) it doesn't happen "automagically". When the rate of SRC formation exceeds the rate of AR synthesis the cell experiences a net reduction in AR and the cell consequently loses androgen sensitivity, the same amount of androgen now produces less of an androgenic/anabolic response, i.e. it becomes downregulated.

Dosing protocols such as blast 'n' cruise are intended to avoid the downregulation that occurs as a result of constant high doses. The "crusing" period gives the muscle cells a chance to restore their AR and to even proliferate ARs i.e. add new ones.

(I am really tired at the moment (leg day) so this may not be as lucid as intended. I will revisit the matter tomorrow and may add diagrams if this will aid clarity.)


Great post Primate!

I feel like such a dope because just yesterday I was preaching to another bro about how AR downregulation was a myth! (based on the article quoted) Now I'll have to go back & correct myself...

Thanks for the education on that issue.

So, on the "automagically" AR replacement issue, it would sure be great if we knew of a substance that was used by the body to build new ARs. (yes, I saw the reference to aminos, but that's a little generic for a shopping list)
 
A cruise dose to ME is around 200mg per week of test E or C...and nothing else should be used with the cruise...(anti E if needed)

IF you go up from there then I would consider that a cycle....
 
have any of you guys had children whyle on or after being on for a year plus?
 
OK, Im gonna run my cycle for another 3 weeks, drop the EQ, the go on a HRT dose for 2 months. Then hit it back hard and bulk like hell this fall!
 

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