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Having 2nd throught on investing in HGH for mass.

Well I just booked my next vacation...maybe more like a sabbatical...

is it really that cheap there that you can afford 20-25iu everyday???

No...it's not...and most of it is shit...just like everywhere else. Good prices there are about what we pay here in the U.S. It's not like BB'rs are getting kits over there for $100 a pop or anything like that. Still, most BB'rs is Aus are paying much more than $200-$250 a kit...and a lot can't get it at all...or the cost is so prohibitive it makes using it impossible.

I know several BB'rs who have made the trek from Aus to Thailand and one BB'r in particular, who was going to do this recently (like 2 weeks ago), decided against it because Thailand is not as easy or cheap as it used to be. And...don't think you can just easily import GH into Thailand, because Thailand has been nabbing up kits at customs left and right. AAS prices are definitely much cheaper there compared to Aus, though.
 
AAS yield best gains.

AAS + GH yields high quality gains - your body will recomp and appear cosmetically superior to just aas alone.

AAS + GH + Slin yields the best muscle hypertrophy inducing environment you can attain through accessible compounds.

You do risk skewing 'your look' by going overboard with this trio and certain aesthetics could get lost in the process

Most BB's get so tunneled vision that they will just keep stepping on the gas and disregard a look that could have been their 'best' in pursuit to utmost muscle mass accrual.

I wont lie and say I am NOT one of those -- but take small steps in getting there.

Seems like when you pedal to the metal on all 3 compounds in higher doses for yrs --- the body gets very distorted and if you ever decide to be 'normal' again --- your physique will look perhaps pretty haggard...

-FF

Good post.
 
what gh is good for is to take a lot more calories than your maintenance and not get fat... just put on them muscles nicely

If that is what u're using it for than its expensive.

Use cheaper alternatives like T3.
 
I have to say HGH has helped me a lot but I use far greater amounts than most and dose IV which makes a difference btw.

I find IGF-1 DES and lR3 completely useless. Just about all of it goes systematic.
Liver generated IGF-1 goes systematic too. Regardless of whether we're talking about DES, LR3, or normal IGF-1 produced by the liver, all of it will enter the bloodstream and attach indiscriminately to whatever IGF-1 receptor sites it happens to come in contact with.

It might help with soft tissue growth and possibly give you a big bloated gut, but who wants that?
It will attach to receptor sites in muscle as well, just like any other form of GH.

Sure it may help in pct but I think hgh would be better suited. The tenary complex (igf-bp3) may be very helpful in building muscle if taken at a high enough dose as just about all of it stays local. I believe right now its only used in children with stunted growth and is very expensive.
I am assuming by "local" you mean it will stay in the muscle it is injected into, correct? Question...if it stays local, how does it help children with stunted growth, being that it is not able to exit the injection site (muscle) and circulate throughout the body, causing skeltal growth?

I don't know of anyone who has used it but if the price comes down in the future it just might be the thing to look for.

As for the "mutation" it does exist but only a pro would desire it.
I guess it depends on how one defines the word "mutation".

Elevations of HGH cause very significant insulin resistance and gives the appearance of a big look, but is really just intramuscular fat. Intact that huge jump in weight
since 94 when Yates won the olympia has just about been fat.
I am assuming you are referring to an increase in visceral fat when you speak of Yates's waist expansion in the latter half of his career. In truth, this could and assuedly is due to multiple reasons. However, visceral fat, contrary to popular belief, is lost just as easily as subcutaneous fat and is burned off along with sub-q fat at roughly the same rate. By the time a BB'r gets down to 3-4%, it is an impossibility for him to be carrying large amounts of visceral fat in his abdominal region, as the body would draw from this resevoir of stored fat for energy long before allowing the rest of the body to reach an extremely low level of BF. In the same way, intramuscular fat stored within muscle is also burned off right along with sub-q and visceral fat, as the individual loses overall fat mass. Again, by the time a BB'r reaches a competition level of BF at 3-4%, he will have burned off any extra intramuscular fat which was previously stored in muscle tissue. The body will not reduce sub-q fat to the 3-4% range, while leaving a significantly greater percentage of IM fat present.

In addition, insulin resistance is easily avoided when using low-moderate doses of GH. A BB'r is more likley to develop insulin resistance from his eating habits and insulin use, than he is GH use...unless the dosage starts to get very high. Lastly, GH has been shown in numerous studies to "burn" abdominal fat at a greater rate than fat from other areas of the body in males.


You say that any weight gain Dorain experienced post-94' was due solely to fat gain, but the only thing that really grew noticably was his waist. The muscles of his torso, arms, and legs did not grow to any meaningful degree, with light growth occuring in a few small areas located within certain muscle groups. So, you say GH causef him to grow by gaining IM fat, but if this is the case, how come this growth did not occur anyhere but in is abdominal region?

What makes you say synthetic igf-1 is more potent than natural?
I do not say synthetic IGF-1 is more potent than natural IGF-1. I said that LR3 and DES are both more potent, per mcg, than regular IGF-1, regardless of whether the regular IGF-1 is produced in the liver or in the lab. So, the question is not a matter of synthetic vs. natural, but of different "forms" of IGF-1 being compared against each other. In terms of their effect on protein synthesis, both LR3 and DES have been shown in the lab to be more potent, per mcg, than liver produced IGF-1.

The mutation is when bodybuilder as a good 2 inches on to their arms along with a nice huge gut. Many will call that a mutation but I call it disgusting.
No one is going to add 2 inches to their arms as a result of taking GH, no matter how much they take or how long the take it for.

Sure hgh won't do that at low to moderate dosages unless you go crazy with the carbs, but once you start going 10iu+ I would say it starts to be a problem.

Its called the Tenary Complex and is carried by many pharmacies but its very expensive. As you already know its bonded to a protein and thus will stay local (in the muscle). I believe its currently only prescribed to those who suffer from short stature, not sure on that one though. When we use synthetic igf-1 its goes just about everywhere but the muscle. Which will not only cause unwanted sides such as soft tissue growth ( or what many would call bloating on igf-1) but will cause growth of cancerous cells and prevent cell suicide.
I addressed this above, but yes, all IGF-1 will freely travel and attach to the first receptor site it comes in cotact with.

So in other words you pay money to help grow cancerous cells and prevent them from dying. Which is why FDA approved IGFBP-3/IGF-1 together only.
Yes, IGF-1 will help existing cancer cells grow, but so will AAS and a bunch of other stuff. Good thing most people don't have cancer cells. It is important to note that IGF-1 does not "cause" cells to become cancerous. You keep using this "systematic" argument to prove that LR3 and DES are basically worthless, but do you not realize that liver produced IGF-1 is also equally "systematic", traveling around the body just as freely, promoting existing cancer cell growth all the same?

Why does IGFBP-3 stay local? IGFBP-3 is a carrier that allows IGF-1 to endure a longer half-life. IGF-1 is cleared rapidly through the kidney if not bonded to a protein due to its low molecular weight. Also since IGFBP-3 has a lower affinity for IGFR it does not negatively impact or interfere with IGF function.

Why IGFBP-3 and not the other 5 IGF binding proteins?
IGFBP-3 accounts for about 80% of IGF-1 binding.

Mecasermin rinfabate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Remember, IGFBP3 keeps IGF-1 around longer, but it also INACTIVATES it while it is bound. Studies on that drug have shown it doesn't work.

And GH isn't putting 2 inches on anyone's arms...
You got that right!

i disagree, its quite a a popular thing in aus bodybuilders to travel to thailand for 6 months and juice+AAS+ slin for 6 months hard

the few i know who do this, come back looking pretty dam freaky and a easy 30 pounds heavier

only difference in there drug regime usualy is while in thailand they add in 20-25iu of GH and hit 60iu+ slin daily
Sorry, not to blatantly contradict you, but GH, regardless of dose, is not going to add 30 lbs of muscle in 6 months. I also know and have known of numerous people who have either made a trip to Thailand from Aus...or who went there on their own accord. Usually, these guys change a LOT about the drug regimen...not just GH. Since "ALL" BB'ing drugs are expensive in Aus and there is a smaller selection of PED's to choose from, they begin taking much larger doses of all the best growth promoting AAS, use a bunch if slin, and add GH. They usually also make sure their diet is damn near perfect. It is a combination of all these things, which are capablel of adding 30 lbs t someone's frame in only 60 minths. Also,...keep in mind that most BB'rs who travel from Aus to Thailand are already considerably developed and making further gains is difficult. There is no way in all fuck that an advanced BB'r is going to gain anywhere close to 30 lbs of muscle from GH.



just saying ive seen a few guys mutate doing that

What about joint health and healing... I know my shoulders felt much better on gh.. After I came off the pain was right back..
Yep...GH is great for promoting collagen synthesis.


I cant get all scientific but I can say that since adding gh to my daily routine I have made a ton of progress in the past year. Only two things changed. My training did change from DC type training to moutain Dog type training and I added GH. Everything else has stayed the same. I am up 17lb in a year and a bit leaner than I was before I started my last prep.
Great progress this last year.


I am sure the training played a role but I am able to eat way more food this year than last year. Last year I had to really nail my diet or I would put fat on. This year I have been a little sloppy from time to time and eating much more food and I am not putting on the fat like I did last year.
This is one of my favorite benefits of GH.


GH has to be helping.

for me, gh = better recovery = size/strength. i sleep better, feel better, and can hit it twice as hard in the gym without feeling rundown. Throwing that in with AAS and Diet and I'm a happy camper.

just another piece of the puzzle.
Another piece of the puzzle...exactly.
 
If that is what u're using it for than its expensive.

Use cheaper alternatives like T3.

No no no, the point raw man is making is eating more calories to grow, not for the sake of it. Gh is anti catabolic and arguably slightly anabolic with gear where as t3 is catabolic as are most fat burners. If your taking t3 to lose fat you won't gain muscle. All t3 does is put you in a deficit, gh repetitions. It's about the bigger picture

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HGH for mass is very expensive. You have to run high doeses for at least six months and honestly you could see more results from doing a 3 month cycle of test, I guess it all comes down to the person, goals, exp, finances, etc....
 

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