hcg and pituitary shutdown

[5millionbucks]

So I'm wondering on peoples input that have ran HCG on cycle; I seen a log on another board where someone ran HCG on his 3rd cycle; and basically his 2 other cycles went fine post PCT. But the 3rd time he ran HCG on cycle and then did PCT and his pituitary never recovered; his testes were fine when he went to the doctor. Anyone know why something like this happened? I know HCG shuts the pituitary function down; but I thought the pituitary recovered way faster than the testes............

 

[Swifto]

So I'm wondering on peoples input that have ran HCG on cycle; I seen a log on another board where someone ran HCG on his 3rd cycle; and basically his 2 other cycles went fine post PCT. But the 3rd time he ran HCG on cycle and then did PCT and his pituitary never recovered; his testes were fine when he went to the doctor. Anyone know why something like this happened? I know HCG shuts the pituitary function down; but I thought the pituitary recovered way faster than the testes............

HCG does not shut the pituitary down.

The AAS he's used will first cause the hypothalamus to shutdown, then pituitary.

HCG is used to keep the testes stimulated directly during AAS usage. It will not hamper recovery, it will aid in HPTA restoration.

 

[Slowmoe]

So I'm wondering on peoples input that have ran HCG on cycle; I seen a log on another board where someone ran HCG on his 3rd cycle; and basically his 2 other cycles went fine post PCT. But the 3rd time he ran HCG on cycle and then did PCT and his pituitary never recovered; his testes were fine when he went to the doctor. Anyone know why something like this happened? I know HCG shuts the pituitary function down; but I thought the pituitary recovered way faster than the testes............

You are correct. The pituitary recovers faster then the testes. Ideally you would run a SERM and HCG during cycle to keep your HTPA fully (for the most part) functional.

TOrem 30-60mg a day should keep your pituitary going without clomid sides. It will also protect against gyno in a similar fashion to 10-20mg nolva.

 

[5millionbucks]

HCG does not shut the pituitary down.

The AAS he's used will first cause the hypothalamus to shutdown, then pituitary.

HCG is used to keep the testes stimulated directly during AAS usage. It will not hamper recovery, it will aid in HPTA restoration.

I know that but he used the same PCT approach and but the difference is he ran HCG on cycle. Here is the thread; at first I thought the pituitary recovers much faster than the testes; which is true, but I guess not which is a reason why people get secondary hypogonadsim. Here is the thread its old it was on mesorx.

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/hcg-and-hypothalmus-pituitary-shutdown.134274302/

 

[5millionbucks]

HCG does not shut the pituitary down.

The AAS he's used will first cause the hypothalamus to shutdown, then pituitary.

HCG is used to keep the testes stimulated directly during AAS usage. It will not hamper recovery, it will aid in HPTA restoration.

Actually it does shut down the pituitary cause it mimics LH and FSH meaning your body doesnt naturally produce it since it gets mimic'd. ; so test and hcg shut down your pituitary; only difference is hcg keeps the testes alive.

 

[Slowmoe]

I know that but he used the same PCT approach and but the difference is he ran HCG on cycle. Here is the thread; at first I thought the pituitary recovers much faster than the testes; which is true, but I guess not which is a reason why people get secondary hypogonadsim. Here is the thread its old it was on mesorx.

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/hcg-and-hypothalmus-pituitary-shutdown.134274302/

What was his 3rd cycle? And how long post cycle did he get checked? If it consisted of 19-nor's that may explain why he did not recover as quickly as expected

 

[5millionbucks]

What was his 3rd cycle? And how long post cycle did he get checked? If it consisted of 19-nor's that may explain why he did not recover as quickly as expected

To be honest I have no idea; but the guy has a case of secondary hypogonadism; he isn't the first one who got this with HCG. After he came off his testes were decent; but his pituitary wasn't producing enough LH or FSH compared to pre bloods and this was months post pct.

 

[maldorf]

Actually it does shut down the pituitary cause it mimics LH and FSH meaning your body doesnt naturally produce it since it gets mimic'd. ;

Yeah, what I am thinking. Its a negative feedback loop. I could be wrong but pretty sure that is how it would work out. Why I think using HCG doesn't really help all that much, all it does is put off full recovery all that much longer. I remember using it for PCT and felt good during that but once I finished PCT and got off of it I crashed hard. The crash wasn't quite as bad as getting off steroids stone cold but it was still bad.

 

[maldorf]

To be honest I have no idea; but the guy has a case of secondary hypogonadism; he isn't the first one who got this with HCG. After he came off his testes were decent; but his pituitary wasn't producing enough LH or FSH compared to pre bloods and this was months post pct.

Yeah, that's the negative feedback loop. It must have really hit him hard. I wonder what his dose was and what scheme he was using(dose schedule).

 

[Swifto]

Actually it does shut down the pituitary cause it mimics LH and FSH meaning your body doesnt naturally produce it since it gets mimic'd. ; so test and hcg shut down your pituitary; only difference is hcg keeps the testes alive.

You dont know what you're talking about.

HCG does not mimic FSH, it mimics LH. And what data do you have supporting your claim there is a negative feedback mechanism when HCG is used directly suppressing LH? You dont.

It does not have a direct effect on the pituitary.

Yes, it can cause suppression of endogenous hormones as it can raise both testosterone, estrogen and progesterone but this would be minimal IMO. The real HPTA inhibitor is going to be caused by the usage of AAS and estrogen.

 

[Swifto]

Fact is, HCG usage is going to HELP your recover if used correctly, not hinder it.

I wrote this a long time ago:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...cle-forum/53449-hcg-how-important-swifto.html

Some utter bullshit in this thread.

The OP doesn't even know the steroid users cycle, dosages, durations, past steroid usage, but has erroneously claimed it must be HCG as thats when he added and now has problems with little understanding on what and how HCG works/is.

 

[maldorf]

This web page looks like it is ok and has some facts. Ive not read the whole thing, but found this paragraph that is relative to the discussion:

"Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a “crash,” that is, to achieve the best possible transition into “natural training.” A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG. Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasmatestosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. The athlete will only experience a delayed re-adjustment, as has often been observed. Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in reestablishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use. For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin another steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the “steroids” for at least two to three weeks."

https://www.secretsofbodybuilding.org/hcg-human-chorionic-gonadotropin/

 

[5millionbucks]

You dont know what you're talking about.

HCG does not mimic FSH, it mimics LH. And what data do you have supporting your claim there is a negative feedback mechanism when HCG is used directly suppressing LH? You dont.

It does not have a direct effect on the pituitary.

Yes, it can cause suppression of endogenous hormones as it can raise both testosterone, estrogen and progesterone but this would be minimal IMO. The real HPTA inhibitor is going to be caused by the usage of AAS and estrogen.

I meant it mimics LH; so when you put a substance in your body to mimic LH basically its shutting off the function naturally. So basically LH is being produced with HCG hence stopping your pituitary from producing LH naturally. Tell me how HCG has nothing to do with pituitary and explain why this guy got so fucked after running only 250 IU 2x a week on his 2-3rd week on his 3rd cycle? His problem is a pituitary one which his doctor told him that his testes were fine; but the pituitary was fucked.

HCG works on testicular and ovarian level depending on the gender and regardless of your current gonadotropin profile. İt initiates a rise in testicular CYP17A1 and 5AR but also CYP19A1 causing a simultenaous rise in testosterone DHT and estrogens thus degrading LH and FSH release

 

[5millionbucks]

Fact is, HCG usage is going to HELP your recover if used correctly, not hinder it.

I wrote this a long time ago:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...cle-forum/53449-hcg-how-important-swifto.html

Some utter bullshit in this thread.

The OP doesn't even know the steroid users cycle, dosages, durations, past steroid usage, but has erroneously claimed it must be HCG as thats when he added and now has problems with little understanding on what and how HCG works/is.

Yeah I dont know thats why I made this thread asking people who have done this a long time about why some shit like this happened to the guy on the meso thread. There was another guy on t nation that the same shit happened to him; so I'm just trying to peoples input whether your bias against hcg or for it.