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HCG dose (for TRT)

PoptartPsycho

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Jul 17, 2007
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I realize we have a TRT forum here, but wanted to get some replies from people who may not post there.

Myself and my friend are on TRT here in South FL. The protocol is :

200mg Test Cyp weekly
2 x 500iu HCG weekly
2 tabs of Adex weekly

Based on past blood work the adex was dropped to .5mg weekly.

Ok, I do not use my HCG and I have never had a problem with testicle size shrinking.

My friend does his HCG as prescribe. 500is on Monday, 500iu on Thursday. But he claims his testicles still shrink.

Here is the question, would it be better for him to do 250ius EOD instead? Would that provide a better benefit?

Thank you for the replies.
 

Sides

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Jul 26, 2006
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Depends on your goals and what you are trying to get from using HCG.

Dr. John Crisler has many/most of his guys on 100-125iu per day of HCG, which is enough for most people to replace natural LH levels and maintain testicular function. So 125iu per day or 250iu every other day should give good results for most men.

If fertility is the primary concern, then Nelson Montana and other experts say that amount of HCG may not be enough for best results with sperm count and the highest levels of intra-testicular testosterone. For fertility, at least 500iu every other day is usually recommended.

Of course, since HCG increases the activity of the aromatase enzyme, using this much HCG may cause you to aromatize more test into estrogen, so you may have to take slightly more Arimidex, letrozole, or another aromatase inhibitor to keep E2 levels in balance. You don't want E2 too low or too high, as both have negative side effects. So keeping a healthy balance of hormones is the key thing.
 

tommyguns2

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Dec 18, 2007
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Dr. John Crisler has many/most of his guys on 100-125iu per day of HCG.

Has Crisler changed his protocol recently? He used to advocate pinning HCG 2x/week at 250IU each. For example, if you pinned test on Sun., you would pin the HCG the following Fri and Sat, as those days your exogenous test levels were beginning to sink and the HCG helped keep them level. I know that was his protocol years ago, and he may have changed it. Seems like daily HCG shots is overkill, big time.
 

PoptartPsycho

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Testicular size seems to be the main concern. No interest in fertility. Just want the boys to plump up.
 

Sides

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Has Crisler changed his protocol recently? He used to advocate pinning HCG 2x/week at 250IU each. For example, if you pinned test on Sun., you would pin the HCG the following Fri and Sat, as those days your exogenous test levels were beginning to sink and the HCG helped keep them level. I know that was his protocol years ago, and he may have changed it. Seems like daily HCG shots is overkill, big time.

Dr Crisler has indeed changed his protocol in recent years. He advocates small daily shots as the best way to go, although he is flexible to accommodate other approaches because most people don't want to do daily injections.

https://drjohncrisler.com/the-crisler-hcg-protocol---part-deux.html

"In my previous report I recommended 500iu of HCG twice per week for TRT patients, on weekly IM shots, taken each of the two days before the test cyp injection. That is the original “Crisler Method”. Now, with more than a decade more experience, and vast evolution in TRT medicine protocols, we have even better ways to “tune” you up.

By the way, all now administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage adjusted as necessary. No one needs to inject HCG intramuscularly any longer. Or their test cyp for that matter, either.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG from every day, to every third day. They then needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system, due to daily consistent Testosterone delivery.

This might be a good time to mention the best TRT protocol ever is a daily T gel, daily HCG shot, DHEA, and estrogen control (where necessary). I hasten to add that would be for those who can use a T gel.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many, my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. Why, I do not know--a feeling I have every single day.

Since our goal in “Backfilling the Pathways” (subject of another report) is to produce as normal a hormonal landscape as possible, while simultaneously seizing control of the HPTA, providing a physiologic dose of the LH-mimic HCG is key. That means small, daily doses. Second best is a double daily dose, QOD (every other day). Third best is a triple dose Q3D (every third day). You get the pattern. I usually start them off at 100-150iu QD, based upon previous Medical History and, frankly, how I feel at the time about their case.

If you are taking test cyp shots twice per week, and want to take HCG similarly, take the HCG (250-500iu) the day before the test cyp shot, each time. We don’t want to unnecessarily stack the HCG on top of the test cyp shot. If you are doing QOD or even daily test cyp shots (some actually do), it won’t matter. If you would like to combine the two in the same syringe, please let me know how that works for you. Still gathering data on that. But if you do, load the test cyp into the syringe first, then the HCG. The fluid dynamics are more in your favor that way."
 

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