HCG during or after cycle...opinions and experiences?

[Aikman56]

Just as the title states, I'd like input from those of you that use HCG in the two differing ways and your opinions.

What would be even better, is if any of you have tried both ways and what differences you noticed.

I've always run it after with clomid, etc.., but am considering the alternative approach and would appreciate some input.

 

[TeknoViking]

dis lex eeee aaa bra.

haha, just kidding 250ius 2 times a week during the full length of the cycle imo.

 

[Aikman56]

dis lex eeee aaa bra.

haha, just kidding 250ius 2 times a week during the full length of the cycle imo.

I just saw that, LOL! Freaking broken brain!

Running at that dosage, how quickly did you recover, after?

Additionally, what was the length of your cycle?


Thanks, again!

 

[TeknoViking]

I just think it is good practice to be honest if you are cruising forever or just doing a short cycle. If you plan on coming off it will for sure help you recover no matter how long your cycle is.

 

[Aikman56]

Point taken.

 

[buck1973]

when i did long esters i would do 250-350 e3d while on
and on last pin do 375- 500p/d for 10 days to 14 days (1 5000 amp) then start pct.
Always a smooth transition no crash

 

[HenryHill1]

when i did long esters i would do 250-350 e3d while on
and on last pin do 375- 500p/d for 10 days to 14 days (1 5000 amp) then start pct.
Always a smooth transition no crash

This is the approach I'm going to use on my first cycle. Two 500iu amps. One amp 500iu a week for 10 weeks and then 500iu a day after last pin.

 

[Userat204]

250-300 twice a week, 3 x a week max the entire cycle. Then 500iu a day starting 1-5 days after last pin for 10 days, 3-4 days of nothing, then start pct.

Both are equally important. On cycle you maintain some function, testicle size is part of recovery so you are already a step ahead. Also it helps maintain other sex hormones like dhea and pregnenolone so it maintains well being and balance.

Then blasting before pct helps ensure a smooth transition, less chance of a crash, and preps the testes to accept the signal forced by the use of serms.

The question is why would you not use it both ways.

Add Nac, 1200mg a day thru the cycle and pct.

 

[Aikman56]

Exactly the type of info I'm looking for. Thanks for taking the time to respond, guys!

 

[woodswise]

250-300 twice a week, 3 x a week max the entire cycle. Then 500iu a day starting 1-5 days after last pin for 10 days, 3-4 days of nothing, then start pct.

Both are equally important. On cycle you maintain some function, testicle size is part of recovery so you are already a step ahead. Also it helps maintain other sex hormones like dhea and pregnenolone so it maintains well being and balance.

Then blasting before pct helps ensure a smooth transition, less chance of a crash, and preps the testes to accept the signal forced by the use of serms.

The question is why would you not use it both ways.

Add Nac, 1200mg a day thru the cycle and pct.

I read a doctor (I think it was Dr. G on the Gear Exchange) who said too much HCG or using HCG for long periods can do permanent damage to your lyedig cells. So it is important not to overdo it on HCG.

 

[CDJack]

I don't think you get any damage to the leydig cells except with high dosages. 250IU shouldn't be doing any damage.

 

[Aikman56]

I don't think you get any damage to the leydig cells except with high dosages. 250IU shouldn't be doing any damage.

That's my (admittedly limited) understanding, as well.

 

[buck1973]

I read a doctor (I think it was Dr. G on the Gear Exchange) who said too much HCG or using HCG for long periods can do permanent damage to your lyedig cells. So it is important not to overdo it on HCG.

I can remember guys stating doing 5000iu or more at a time for a few days.
and I can still find some articles that have that in there.
talk about a mega dose, scarry

 

[MikeyBrah]

Stay on it your entire cycle.

500 IU E3D

Your nuts will stay full and you won't have to deal with the shrinkage. Plus it's dirt cheap so why not?

 

[CDJack]

I just asked my doc today. He specializes in HRT. He said with low dosages, you can take HCG indefinitely, there is no risk to your testicles. In fact, some of his patients use HCG only (and no testosterone) as their hormone replacement (particularly those who dont make enough LH but whose testicles function fine). Eventually, he said, every man's testicles will stop producing testosterone efficiently and won't respond much to HCG, but this happens naturally in our 40s-50s, not due to using HCG. Take 250IU of HCG 2-3x per week and you will be fine. You can do this forever, or until you are old and it stops working.

 

[cac3071]

My doc has me on 2000 ius 3x week. This was after coming off HRT because we are trying to have another child.

 

[CDJack]

My doc has me on 2000 ius 3x week. This was after coming off HRT because we are trying to have another child.

IMO, this is not a good idea. That can damage the leydig cells and will cause massive estrogen spikes. You shouldn't do this type of blast HCG usage...slow and steady wins the race. Also, no need to really come off your test. My doc has had MUCH success with keeping people on their TRT dose (~100-150mg per week) and doing clomid 25mg per day, HCG 250IU 3x per week, and HMG 75IU 3x per week. He told me that he has yet to see this fail, though sometimes it can take several months to really get going. Why the rush? I really hope you dont plan on doing that HCG blast for an extended period of time, and even if you don't, it's inferior to using a more moderate dose with HMG and clomid for a few months while you try to get your girl pregnant.

 

[Userat204]

If you look at some of the fertility studies and practices, they will have guys using 5000iu a day for months at a time. I think we have learned that to be a bit excessive.

Small doses, 250-300 max, is fine. I use to increase the amount if I began to atrophy, but the more I read, it seemed that it was better to add a third day as opposed to a higher dose, which is pretty common to what is done with HRT now. I still think you may need a little more on long cycles compared to trt but I seem to do fine with the low dose. Look at pregnyl, it comes with sterile water, because all 5000iu was intended for a single injection.

Adding hcg can help prevent lydeg cell damage. Someone has a link in their sig, "avoiding hcg burnout with NAC" or something similar to that. It's a good read.

I've used 1000-3000iu a day during the blast prior to pct. I have no permanent damage. Basically I just ended up with outrageous estro. 10 days is not enough time to cause permanent damage, but I'm not advising to use the doses I just listed, all that happened was I made pct more difficult because you will end up with estro from lydegs that is not effected by an AI. 500-1000 for the blast is plenty. I think most of us, I am guilty of this, don't give our bodies enough time to let the AAS clear before starting pct. 14 days after last inject is pretty common and really it should be closer to 21 days on long esters.

But I'm not waiting 21 days, it's to long to me and I start to crash, hcg is good during this time because it will elevate T as will aromisin. But I prefer during and before pct.

Sometimes, I will finish a vial during a cycle, then take a week off of hcg, then start up again. Now that I'm on TRT I do this as well. At least I try to stick to that but I will admit that there are times that I go thru 2-3 bottles without a break.

 

[cac3071]

IMO, this is not a good idea. That can damage the leydig cells and will cause massive estrogen spikes. You shouldn't do this type of blast HCG usage...slow and steady wins the race. Also, no need to really come off your test. My doc has had MUCH success with keeping people on their TRT dose (~100-150mg per week) and doing clomid 25mg per day, HCG 250IU 3x per week, and HMG 75IU 3x per week. He told me that he has yet to see this fail, though sometimes it can take several months to really get going. Why the rush? I really hope you dont plan on doing that HCG blast for an extended period of time, and even if you don't, it's inferior to using a more moderate dose with HMG and clomid for a few months while you try to get your girl pregnant.

Thanks for the feedback and BTW I agree with you. But at some point you have to stop analyzing and go one route or the other. I chose to allow the doc to run it and came off HRT. I actually feel great using the HCG and no doubt test is up. I am still using my prescribed Arimidex and I have no signs of estro issues, in fact joint pain tells me it could be low. I go for bloodwork next week.

That said, how would you guys run the HCG to kick start endo levels? He has me on 2000 3x week and doesn't seem to have any plan to taper of come off? He just said retest sperm in 3 months. I am on week 3 of this protocol but do not plan to run HCG @ that dose for 3 months. But I am also not sure what I should do instead? The problem is that nobody really knows how this stuff works because HRT for men is only starting to be studied.

 

[CDJack]

If you look at some of the fertility studies and practices, they will have guys using 5000iu a day for months at a time. I think we have learned that to be a bit excessive.

Small doses, 250-300 max, is fine. I use to increase the amount if I began to atrophy, but the more I read, it seemed that it was better to add a third day as opposed to a higher dose, which is pretty common to what is done with HRT now. I still think you may need a little more on long cycles compared to trt but I seem to do fine with the low dose. Look at pregnyl, it comes with sterile water, because all 5000iu was intended for a single injection.

Adding hcg can help prevent lydeg cell damage. Someone has a link in their sig, "avoiding hcg burnout with NAC" or something similar to that. It's a good read.

I've used 1000-3000iu a day during the blast prior to pct. I have no permanent damage. Basically I just ended up with outrageous estro. 10 days is not enough time to cause permanent damage, but I'm not advising to use the doses I just listed, all that happened was I made pct more difficult because you will end up with estro from lydegs that is not effected by an AI. 500-1000 for the blast is plenty. I think most of us, I am guilty of this, don't give our bodies enough time to let the AAS clear before starting pct. 14 days after last inject is pretty common and really it should be closer to 21 days on long esters.

But I'm not waiting 21 days, it's to long to me and I start to crash, hcg is good during this time because it will elevate T as will aromisin. But I prefer during and before pct.

Sometimes, I will finish a vial during a cycle, then take a week off of hcg, then start up again. Now that I'm on TRT I do this as well. At least I try to stick to that but I will admit that there are times that I go thru 2-3 bottles without a break.

No disrespect, but how do you know you haven't desensitized your leydig cells to LH? Did you have some kind of test done?

Also, HCG is not meant for men. So to say it's meant to be used all 5,000IU at once is ridiculous. We use it in an off-label practice. Women using it due to fertility problems is a completely different story.