HCG Not Working

[slesh]

Interesting situation my boy is in. He and the wife trying to have another baby. He’s been on and off juice for almost two decades. Currently off Test and just running HCG and Arimidex. Both pharm grade from a U.S. pharmacy. He’s taking a crazy amount of HCG; I believe 5000iu 3x a week. His labs came back and his total Test was 400 and E2 25. But his LH and FSH both came back at around .3 which is low as fuck. He is doing this through a NP at his medspa so she is basically useless other than writing the script. I have never seen HCG not have some results on FSH and LH. Curious if anyone else has had similar experiences? Again, this is Pregnyl from the pharmacy. Maybe @Type-IIx has some science to share…

 

[Cito33189]

How long has he been using the HCG?

I been off and my levels are lower than his. My test also came back at 3.

I’ve seen doctors prescribe clomid along with hcg. It sounds like your friend is really shut down it might just be a time thing.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I know hCG raises testosterone but I wasn't aware that it raised LH and FSH. In for the replies. Curious about this as well.

 

[heavyhitter]

I know hmg is pretty popular for male fertility

 

[mr.e01]

I took HMG- was a total game changer. With HCG alone- I had about 250k-1mil sperm
With hmg (iirc it was 150iu 3x/wk) and the HCG (2000 is 3x a week).. It went to 250 mil in about 2-3 months
I have a daughter and we are expecting a baby boy in July.
Bought everything overseas for a fraction of the price- but I took a chance with that one

 

[NorwegianMuscle]

Because I rarely come off I run a small dose of HCG every week religiously 500iu's. I've been doing this for years. In my opinion, he may be running to much and its causing a reverse effect. I know when I run to much that is what it does to me. 5000 units 3x a week I think is what the problem is.

 

[Cito33189]

 

[Cito33189]

I just got my blood work back and everything is pretty bad right now. I’m going to the endo next week. I’ll keep posted on what his opinion. Maybe it’s different then your friends.

 

[maldorf]

I know hCG raises testosterone but I wasn't aware that it raised LH and FSH. In for the replies. Curious about this as well.

I was thinking it would decrease LH and FSH output through a negative feedback loop. I may be totally wrong on that.

 

[Biggerp73]

I was thinking it would decrease LH and FSH output through a negative feedback loop.

Same

 

[phoenix2]

I was thinking it would decrease LH and FSH output through a negative feedback loop. I may be totally wrong on that.

You are correct. Hcg is VERY suppressive and shuts down Gn-Rh production (hypothalamus). For fertility purpose is better to run low dose HCG (to maintain the nuts responsive) and clomid/enclomiphene for the endogenous LH and FSH boost.

 

[Swifto]

You are correct. Hcg is VERY suppressive and shuts down Gn-Rh production (hypothalamus). For fertility purpose is better to run low dose HCG (to maintain the nuts responsive) and clomid/enclomiphene for the endogenous LH and FSH boost.

Correct.

But not in the presence of Tamoxifen.

To the OP, your friend needs to get sperm parameter tested. How long were bloods taken after his last AAS/Test shot? The TT value could be exogenous Test if this is within 5-6 weeks.

 

[Flex500]

Interesting situation my boy is in. He and the wife trying to have another baby. He’s been on and off juice for almost two decades. Currently off Test and just running HCG and Arimidex. Both pharm grade from a U.S. pharmacy. He’s taking a crazy amount of HCG; I believe 5000iu 3x a week. His labs came back and his total Test was 400 and E2 25. But his LH and FSH both came back at around .3 which is low as fuck. He is doing this through a NP at his medspa so she is basically useless other than writing the script. I have never seen HCG not have some results on FSH and LH. Curious if anyone else has had similar experiences? Again, this is Pregnyl from the pharmacy. Maybe @Type-IIx has some science to share…

Here is a thread that may, or may not, help. My wife is now 9 weeks pregnant after I had been on trt non-stop, no HCG, since our first kid a decade ago.

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...-fertility-protocol-and-few-questions.169678/

My bloodwork was all over the place. At times my LH and FSH were good but the more consistent I was with the HCG and HMG they basically were non-existent. I was all over the place with my protocol but when we got serious this is what I did overall and my key takaways...

1. You are setting yourself back by not getting sperm analysis done. That's they only way to know and track progress because from myself and others blood levels of FSH and LH are all over the board when running HCG and HMG.

2. Adding enclomiphene helped. Many will say not needed if taking HCG and HMG...and I to believe it's not required, but it helped.

3. I felt the best and had the best results when I was 100% consistent with this...
1,500-2,500iu hcg 3x per week
75iu 3x per week
12.5mgs enclomiphene / day

4. Don't sleep on the supplements that help sperm quality. There are many from NAC, PQQ, Fish Oil, L Carnitine, Ubiquinol. My sperm count when very high but quality was also exceptional.

5. My testicle sized increased dramatically and it is actually a good proxy for if things "are working". Size will come back before count but if you notice a distinct size increase from raisin nuts that is a good sign to kick things off.

 

[Flex500]

I took HMG- was a total game changer. With HCG alone- I had about 250k-1mil sperm
With hmg (iirc it was 150iu 3x/wk) and the HCG (2000 is 3x a week).. It went to 250 mil in about 2-3 months
I have a daughter and we are expecting a baby boy in July.
Bought everything overseas for a fraction of the price- but I took a chance with that one

Agree here. I responded well on being off test and using HCG but it was insane when the HMG was added. I did only 75 iu 3x per week and that made a world of difference.

One thing I did is I was off all test and HCG only and I did HMG ED for 15 days at 75iu a day to really kick things off. Half life is low with HMG so that was my way of really giving a pulse daily for a couple weeks. It felt like from the time I did that and then went to 75iu everything just changed and my sperm count was through the roof.

 

[slesh]

Swimmer analysis attached. I guess he is on Clomid as well. Lol you can see his drug cocktail.

 

[maldorf]

You are correct. Hcg is VERY suppressive and shuts down Gn-Rh production (hypothalamus). For fertility purpose is better to run low dose HCG (to maintain the nuts responsive) and clomid/enclomiphene for the endogenous LH and FSH boost.

Yeah, doesn't it mimic LH and thus cause more of a shut down through negative feedback? The body thinks it has plenty of LH, so shuts down production. That's why I found that taking hcg for PCT didn't help at all, and just merely prolonged recovery.

I'm not sure if HCG affects fsh secretion.

 

[LK3]

Correct.

But not in the presence of Tamoxifen.

To the OP, your friend needs to get sperm parameter tested. How long were bloods taken after his last AAS/Test shot? The TT value could be exogenous Test if this is within 5-6 weeks.

clomid+nolva+ana=sperm
pretty sure even nolva+ana will get em going to some extent.

 

[Elvia1023]

A few quick thoughts. There is no reason to come off trt and it can even be beneficial when combined with the correct fertility protocol. Too much HCG. He should add in HMG as that is more important in most regards. Clomid would be beneficial in his case.

 

[LK3]

Swimmer analysis attached. I guess he is on Clomid as well. Lol you can see his drug cocktail.

i have seen ppl doing this and usually the clomid dose is very low.
i have seen like 4 kids come from guys who were long term shut down just using clomid.nolva.ana.

the clomid doses were very high though.
its not a good idea to take clomid lightly though.

 

[phoenix2]

Yeah, doesn't it mimic LH and thus cause more of a shut down through negative feedback? The body thinks it has plenty of LH, so shuts down production. That's why I found that taking hcg for PCT didn't help at all, and just merely prolonged recovery.

I'm not sure if HCG affects fsh secretion.

Yes, exactly this.
HCG shuts down FSH too because it shuts down GnRH, which controls the release of both gonadotropin (LH and FSH). FSH is also under (inhibitory) control of inhibin, a glycoprotein produced by Sertoli cells in the testis.