HDL vs LDL on cycle?

[aHarness]

sorry for pulling this thread up, so what else besides cardarine can one take on cycle to keep hdl from dipping to low?

do statins or certrus bergamont help? is low hdl even a concern if ldl and trig are in good range?

In my experience the only way to have a “good” hdl is to not take gear (or take very low doses)

Even with cardarine, no cheat meals, daily fasted cardio, fish oil, good brand citrus bergamot, telmi, etc my HDL is low (this could be genetic to a degree too)

LDL, total cholesterol, HDL/LDL ratio and trigs are pristine though

 

[Hatchet]

I lived most of my life with a 230 total cholesterol and 160 ldl which everyone will say is not good. Coronary Calcium Score came back at 0

Remember, calcium scoring cannot measure or see soft plaque... Recently a buddy who always had lowish lipids, and zero calcium, had a widow-maker bypass.
Soft plaque blockage... None of these tests see the full picture, unless you get invasive...

 

[luki7788]

In my experience the only way to have a “good” hdl is to not take gear (or take very low doses)

Even with cardarine, no cheat meals, daily fasted cardio, fish oil, good brand citrus bergamot, telmi, etc my HDL is low (this could be genetic to a degree too)

LDL, total cholesterol, HDL/LDL ratio and trigs are pristine though

I have similar observations

 

[prodaf]

In my experience the only way to have a “good” hdl is to not take gear (or take very low doses)

Even with cardarine, no cheat meals, daily fasted cardio, fish oil, good brand citrus bergamot, telmi, etc my HDL is low (this could be genetic to a degree too)

LDL, total cholesterol, HDL/LDL ratio and trigs are pristine though

Same boat and every athlete i know

 

[dany23x]

In MY OPINION i think that lipids are not so important, people should be worried more by kidneys.

On 2g teste 350 trenE 700 eq 10iu HGH 20 Humalog, my HDL was 22 LDL 60 Tryglicerides 30, and i barely did any cardio except 10k steps a day.
Don't take any hardcore supps, just a multivit twice a day, melatonin, magnesium, B complex, vit C, 500mg Berberine before bed.

Diet and cardio have the most impact on lipids.
10-20mg GW ofc it will help you, in daily cardio, and training and ofc lipids.
Ezetamibe also, but i think that this is not mandatory, even if we see a lot of internet gurus using it, but i don't trust them.

I have never had nor ever seen a lipid profile destroyed by AAS, except in those people who eat shit several times a week

in the past I didn't have any obvious alterations even with winstrol + tren

in fact I don't understand how some coaches make people eat junk food to "grow"

 

[jaxino]

I have never had nor ever seen a lipid profile destroyed by AAS, except in those people who eat shit several times a week

in the past I didn't have any obvious alterations even with winstrol + tren

in fact I don't understand how some coaches make people eat junk food to "grow"

When i tried 700 Tren Ace a week my HDL was 12, but LDL always pretty close... Jeez everything i was eating i would start sweating like a mofo.

Tren in high dose can really screw your lipids like also orals like Winstrol....

 

[dany23x]

When i tried 700 Tren Ace a week my HDL was 12, but LDL always pretty close... Jeez everything i was eating i would start sweating like a mofo.

Tren in high dose can really screw your lipids like also orals like Winstrol....

yes , but the "secret" is LDL , i have 28 with a lot cardio + supplement

 

[nothuman]

In my experience the only way to have a “good” hdl is to not take gear (or take very low doses)

Even with cardarine, no cheat meals, daily fasted cardio, fish oil, good brand citrus bergamot, telmi, etc my HDL is low (this could be genetic to a degree too)

LDL, total cholesterol, HDL/LDL ratio and trigs are pristine though

I was able to keep my HDL high on cardarine but I wasn't using large doses at the time so it definitely has a modest benefit, but only up to a point.

The problem is raising HDL hasn't shown to have any cardiovascular benefit so ApoB/LDL is really what we should be focusing more on.

 

[nothuman]

In MY OPINION i think that lipids are not so important, people should be worried more by kidneys.

On 2g teste 350 trenE 700 eq 10iu HGH 20 Humalog, my HDL was 22 LDL 60 Tryglicerides 30, and i barely did any cardio except 10k steps a day.
Don't take any hardcore supps, just a multivit twice a day, melatonin, magnesium, B complex, vit C, 500mg Berberine before bed.

Diet and cardio have the most impact on lipids.
10-20mg GW ofc it will help you, in daily cardio, and training and ofc lipids.
Ezetamibe also, but i think that this is not mandatory, even if we see a lot of internet gurus using it, but i don't trust them.

Lipids are more important over the long term. Short term elevated LDL probably won't be detrimental since it takes a very long time for atherosclerosis to build in our arteries. If someone is insistent on not taking a statin or Ezetimibe on a cycle, it's probably not going to be too damaging unless it's long term. The longer our exposure to high ApoB/LDL, the worse.

 

[aHarness]

The problem is raising HDL hasn't shown to have any cardiovascular benefit so ApoB/LDL is really what we should be focusing more on.

Agreed, I’ve never been too worried about the low HDL given all my life other markers.

 

[buck]

As the brain has one of the highest concentrations of cholesterol and it needs it and makes it's own cholesterol. And it is reported from my reading that stains can cross the blood brain barrier and interfere with cholesterol synthesis. I tend to wonder what the effects long term statin use will have on the brain.

 

[iron lifter]

i remeber dante mentioning 40mg of luetin is suppose to keep hdl in check, but i guess foucing on keeping ldl and trig low is best one can do and let hdl recover when off cycle.

 

[nothuman]

i remeber dante mentioning 40mg of luetin is suppose to keep hdl in check, but i guess foucing on keeping ldl and trig low is best one can do and let hdl recover when off cycle.

There’s a cancer link with high dose lutein so I would be careful there. I don’t recall him ever saying that though. Citrus Bergamot, yes.

 

[iron lifter]

There’s a cancer link with high dose lutein so I would be careful there. I don’t recall him ever saying that though. Citrus Bergamot, yes.

oh ok, i saw it on his instragram page. i take 20mg for eyes, is there a risk with that amount?

 

[steve0691]

I was able to keep my HDL high on cardarine but I wasn't using large doses at the time so it definitely has a modest benefit, but only up to a point.

The problem is raising HDL hasn't shown to have any cardiovascular benefit so ApoB/LDL is really what we should be focusing more on.

I agree with this. Cardarine, crestor, niacin can give a slight increase but youre efforts are best spent focusing where the evidence points and right now thats apoB and ldl as @nothuman said.

 

[gauge22-v2]

I have never had nor ever seen a lipid profile destroyed by AAS, except in those people who eat shit several times a week

in the past I didn't have any obvious alterations even with winstrol + tren

in fact I don't understand how some coaches make people eat junk food to "grow"

I took Anavar @ 40mg ED for 6 weeks. Everything other variable, diet/exercise/cardio, was basically static. Cronometer has me eating 20g of sat fat per day during this time.

In mmols

LDL 3.81->6.54
HDL 1.02->.86
Cholesterol 5.14->7.67

 

[dany23x]

I took Anavar @ 40mg ED for 6 weeks. Everything other variable, diet/exercise/cardio, was basically static. Cronometer has me eating 20g of sat fat per day during this time.

In mmols

LDL 3.81->6.54
HDL 1.02->.86
Cholesterol 5.14->7.67

20g of saturated fat is not an enormous amount (you need to look at the food sources)

what I mean is junk food like pizza, McDonald's, repeated several times a week, like some Social Media clowns do (T3+T4+clen + other stimulants + tren) I eat shit from morning to night and I'm always high, afterwards 1/2 years are done bodybuilding for life

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

There’s a cancer link with high dose lutein so I would be careful there. I don’t recall him ever saying that though. Citrus Bergamot, yes.

There was a early study in the 2000's on carotenoids (bunched together) in which the authors made claims that have since been debunked. Beta-Carotene in high doses and supplement form can be disastrous for smokers and former smokers. Lutein expecially of late has been shown to be highly anti cancer....and will also raise HDL
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/2792855

Another supplement that will raise HDL is MSM at about 1500 mg morn and 1500 mg night

 

[nothuman]

There was a early study in the 2000's on carotenoids (bunched together) in which the authors made claims that have since been debunked. Beta-Carotene in high doses and supplement form can be disastrous for smokers and former smokers. Lutein expecially of late has been shown to be highly anti cancer....and will also raise HDL
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/2792855

Another supplement that will raise HDL is MSM at about 1500 mg morn and 1500 mg night

Ah ok thanks for the correction. Worth noting that Lutein is easily obtainable from the diet.

 

[gauge22-v2]

20g of saturated fat is not an enormous amount (you need to look at the food sources)

what I mean is junk food like pizza, McDonald's, repeated several times a week, like some Social Media clowns do (T3+T4+clen + other stimulants + tren) I eat shit from morning to night and I'm always high, afterwards 1/2 years are done bodybuilding for life

"I have never had nor ever seen a lipid profile destroyed by AAS, except in those people who eat shit several times a week"

I was pointing out that YES certain steroids destroyed my lipids and I was not eating like shit. IE: Nothing processed/packaged etc. So no you have see a profile of an example.