Heavy pressing for delts

[tenny]

May I ask how many working sets per muscle group ? Thank you, b-boy. Also, do you ever hit abs directly?

im not answering for him...

nor advocating....

but 16 to 20 is a REAL magic number.

 

[jaxino]

In some videos Iain Valliere said that both him and Chris Bumstead built their boulder shoulders on Heavy Presses mainly, Lateral Raises and Reverse Pec Dek.
That said Chris had pain on a shoulder on every olympia prep.

I am not really so sure that pressing is so great for shoulders development..
all the people that used to do heavy presses has an injury or chronical pain.

I usually do, this:
-60 degrees Inclined Smith Press 3 sets 10-15 reps
-Band Cuffs lateral raises 3 sets 10-15 reps
-Reverse Pec Dek 3 sets 10-15 reps
I keep progressing, hope it will work.

 

[alfresco]

Scott presses using dumbbells is great too.

Technique is crucial.

 

[maldorf]

Monday - chest and triceps
Tuesday - back and biceps
Wednesday - off
Thursday - quads and hamstrings
Friday - shoulders, traps, calves

I'm going to give this a try. I've been doing Phil's 3 day split hitting everything 2x per week since 2008, but think I may do better now with lower frequency. I turn 52 later this week and it seems my body can't keep up with the old routine any longer. Training 6 days a week is rough.

About how many sets per body part do you do? Between 6 and 8, depending on what's trained?

 

[maldorf]

Technique is crucial.

I've found that I can do them without any shoulder pain, and that regular shoulder presses cause pain.

For me the worst thing I can do is use a barbell behind the neck and bring it down real low.

 

[b-boy]

I'm going to give this a try. I've been doing Phil's 3 day split hitting everything 2x per week since 2008, but think I may do better now with lower frequency. I turn 52 later this week and it seems my body can't keep up with the old routine any longer. Training 6 days a week is rough.

About how many sets per body part do you do? Between 6 and 8, depending on what's trained?

Between 9-12 sets per bodypart. Biceps or triceps maybe 6 sometimes

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

im not answering for him...

nor advocating....

but 16 to 20 is a REAL magic number.

I've always liked it there. Sometimes pushing intensity, it can decrease.

 

[Fit2Serve]

I'm going to give this a try. I've been doing Phil's 3 day split hitting everything 2x per week since 2008, but think I may do better now with lower frequency. I turn 52 later this week and it seems my body can't keep up with the old routine any longer. Training 6 days a week is rough.

About how many sets per body part do you do? Between 6 and 8, depending on what's trained?

Maldorf, i think u know i trained same way cuz was a phil h student
i am also older (and less dedicated) and dont recover as well so lately i been doing this and i have been LOVING it:

mon- upper body, 20-30 min cardio post work out run/walk
tues- lower body, abs maybe 15 min slooow walk after
wed- off (maybe cardio)
thur- repaet mon work out
fri- repeat tues work out
sat- off or cardio or just be active
sun- off or just be active

easily my fave routine ever.

 

[alfresco]

Maldorf, i think u know i trained same way cuz was a phil h student
i am also older (and less dedicated) and dont recover as well so lately i been doing this and i have been LOVING it:

mon- upper body, 20-30 min cardio post work out run/walk
tues- lower body, abs maybe 15 min slooow walk after
wed- off (maybe cardio)
thur- repaet mon work out
fri- repeat tues work out
sat- off or cardio or just be active
sun- off or just be active

easily my fave routine ever.

I think that was the routine / split that Mentzer used to reach his best.
I read that in a magazine interview he said that that was the most
productive way for him to train then he started getting whacky, advocating,
working out so little as to be comical. He never produced anybody, nobody.
I watched him and his brother train and they did their share of sets.

At least Jones got Sergio and Casey their biggest and best.

But I digress . . .

 

[Fit2Serve]

I think that was the routine / split that Mentzer used to reach his best.
I read that in a magazine interview he said that that was the most
productive way for him to train then he started getting whacky, advocating,
working out so little as to be comical. He never produced anybody, nobody.
I watched him and his brother train and they did their share of sets.

At least Jones got Sergio and Casey their biggest and best.

But I digress . . .

i love it.
i train kinda low volume but continuous. no rest between sets. back and forth from say a chest exercise to a back exercise back and forth for 3-4 sets pwr exdrcise.
2 exercises per big bodypart and just 1 per small part. if u know what i mean

 

[pumpkinhead]

if you are under 30.....yes ......blast that shit....
otherwise....back off....light weight....behind the neck
(to the ears)...fast reps....25 to 50 at a time...
massive pump...delts...tris...traps....total workout
in 4 sets....

this is exactly what I have moved to the older I got...with both my shoulders pretty shot, I do most of my isolation work first and then end the workout with super light weight behind the neck presses just going for that huge pump to get some blood in the delts. Are the shoulders as good as they used to be? probably not, but me becomming a old man is probably part of that equation too. lol

 

[LATS]

I think that was the routine / split that Mentzer used to reach his best.
I read that in a magazine interview he said that that was the most
productive way for him to train then he started getting whacky, advocating,
working out so little as to be comical. He never produced anybody, nobody.
I watched him and his brother train and they did their share of sets.

At least Jones got Sergio and Casey their biggest and best.

But I digress . . .

I've brought this up before but here it goes again..
Mentzer didn't train like he advocated at the end of his career.. like you said also..
As a teenager I used to get musclemag international magazine.. they once followed mentzer through every bodypart.. listed all weight and reps.. it was lower volume yes.. but not much different than what many do today in terms of low volume training..
I got to see him also train in chicago.. lots of warmup sets.. drop sets.. rest pauses.. but he'd only count the " workset".. but some of those warm ups looked kinda tough too lol

 

[Biggerp73]

You really have to know your own body and be able to intuit when you need to back off, when you need to warm up, how long you need to warm up, what movements are working right, what movements aren't, how to squeeze and pump, how to hit max weight in the 1 to 3ish rep range, when you can go hard and intense and to failure, when you need to go hard and heavy but stay shy of failure, etc.

 

[specter]

Heavy shoulder pressing never did anything for my shoulders other then give me issues, now side latterals there was something that made em grow i just needed to focus on doing them right and actually feel them work the muscle.

 

[pickapeck]

Technique is crucial.

Maybe you can appreciate this Al and maybe some of the others in the thread might. This is only one guy but take it for what it's worth. 1977-1979 I worked out at this dingy YMCA. Most of the second and third generation Italian, Irish etc trained there as young men. There were a few older guys there that knew what they were doing. One, Joe Kurpiel, was an alternate on the US Olympic lifting team in 1936. When I met him he was 65 and still doing clean and press sets seemingly for hours. For back then he had a super hero like build really. He set records in powerlifting until age 75 and lived to 96. He did pressing movements well into his 70s. He was built like a brick shithouse. His shoulders were fine for doing over head pressing movements for 60+ years.

 

[Alzadosghost]

My shoulders grew better doing 5-10 lb lateral variations far better than any heavy presses ever did. Too much front delt involvement and too many other muscles get worked doing presses. Isolating individual delt muscles with lighter weight and more reps with excellent form laterals are far superior to pressing not to mention how much injury presses cause and long term damage accumulates from pressing period.

 

[alfresco]

You really have to know your own body and be able to intuit when you need to back off, when you need to warm up, how long you need to warm up, what movements are working right, what movements aren't, how to squeeze and pump, how to hit max weight in the 1 to 3ish rep range, when you can go hard and intense and to failure, when you need to go hard and heavy but stay shy of failure, etc.

I have always thought that the world ‘bodybuilding’ is a misnomer, should be called mind training.

Failing exceptional genetics, so much of the bodybuilding / weightlifting results are
result of mental attention except when you start training, when results occur almost effortlessly. It is later when things stall out due you really have to apply yourself.

 

[krman]

My shoulders grew better doing 5-10 lb lateral variations far better than any heavy presses ever did. Too much front delt involvement and too many other muscles get worked doing presses. Isolating individual delt muscles with lighter weight and more reps with excellent form laterals are far superior to pressing not to mention how much injury presses cause and long term damage accumulates from pressing period.

I train my shoulders the same way. I was accumulating some shoulder injuries when I was doing super heavy shoulder presses. Now that I went lighter and also hit my stabilizer muscles more, I am able to really get the look I want for my shoulders.

 

[cage99]

My shoulder routine is pretty basic

Seated Military
DB Laterals
Seated DB presses
Standing Log Press
- all 10-12 reps

Then toss in BB Shoulder Shrugs, Hammerstrength Shrugs, and DB upright rows
- all for 10-12 reps

Then rotate same excercises to heavy 4-8 reps every 2 weeks…

Cage

 

[Onynx5]

Both, heavy laterals but more variations, I start with heavy dumbells, then machine and cables, drop sets as much blood flow as possible, save my heavy pressing for last after I've worked all 3 heads, and finish with 2-3 sets high rep pressing 25-50 reps. Basically ton of volume for me to get them to grow