Heavy weights vs moderate weights

JohnnyPro · Aug 2, 2007

Some people swear you need to lift heavy to grow. Others never go to failure and lift lighter, yet grow. What do you think?

swervedriver · Aug 2, 2007

This is an age old question... However, one that can never really be answered completely... The best answer one can give is that it is all relative... It depends on the person... I recently got a chance to watch a guy who placed third in states in the heavyweight div train... I also talked with him afterwards... The guy didn't go heavy on anything... At least not compared to what you would think a guy of his size could handle... But what he lacked in poundage used he made up with speed... The guy was like a machine... He trained chest in 20 minutes... The next day did back and hams in 35 minutes... His rest breaks were only around 30 secs at the most... Reps stayed in the 8-10 range on everything... Supersetted some stuff along the way... Anyway, after his last day of training at my gym (he was down on vacation) I asked him about his training style and nutrition... He said that it wasn't until he started backing off of the heavy weights and incorporated shorter rest breaks between sets did he really start growing... He said before when he was killing himself trying to go to failure and going heavy as possible, he would wake up every morning hurting... But not muscle soreness, but rather joint pain... He said its hard to concentrate on the muscle you are working when there is so much stress being put on your joints... So he said lighten the weights and concentrate on the muscle you're training and stop bullshitting with your buddies... He said I should be done with any muscle group within 30 minutes.. If not I'm wasting too much time talking or at the water fountain... I have since started incorporating his philosophy and it is working... I do not hurt all of the time, and for the first time in a while I am getting great muscle pumps... I will say this again, it is all relative... Do what works for you! This is just what I have recently encountered and it seems to be working for now.... But what works for one may not for someone else... Thats why trial and error is the only effective way to answer this question for one's self...

oldfella · Aug 2, 2007

swervedriver said:
This is an age old question... However, one that can never really be answered completely... The best answer one can give is that it is all relative... It depends on the person... I recently got a chance to watch a guy who placed third in states in the heavyweight div train... I also talked with him afterwards... The guy didn't go heavy on anything... At least not compared to what you would think a guy of his size could handle... But what he lacked in poundage used he made up with speed... The guy was like a machine... He trained chest in 20 minutes... The next day did back and hams in 35 minutes... His rest breaks were only around 30 secs at the most... Reps stayed in the 8-10 range on everything... Supersetted some stuff along the way... Anyway, after his last day of training at my gym (he was down on vacation) I asked him about his training style and nutrition... He said that it wasn't until he started backing off of the heavy weights and incorporated shorter rest breaks between sets did he really start growing... He said before when he was killing himself trying to go to failure and going heavy as possible, he would wake up every morning hurting... But not muscle soreness, but rather joint pain... He said its hard to concentrate on the muscle you are working when there is so much stress being put on your joints... So he said lighten the weights and concentrate on the muscle you're training and stop bullshitting with your buddies... He said I should be done with any muscle group within 30 minutes.. If not I'm wasting too much time talking or at the water fountain... I have since started incorporating his philosophy and it is working... I do not hurt all of the time, and for the first time in a while I am getting great muscle pumps... I will say this again, it is all relative... Do what works for you! This is just what I have recently encountered and it seems to be working for now.... But what works for one may not for someone else... Thats why trial and error is the only effective way to answer this question for one's self...

Good post swerve.........So true!

km2000 · Aug 2, 2007

its not about heavy or light weight, its about intensity....

flexmaster · Aug 2, 2007

swervedriver said:
This is an age old question... However, one that can never really be answered completely... The best answer one can give is that it is all relative... It depends on the person... I recently got a chance to watch a guy who placed third in states in the heavyweight div train... I also talked with him afterwards... The guy didn't go heavy on anything... At least not compared to what you would think a guy of his size could handle... But what he lacked in poundage used he made up with speed... The guy was like a machine... He trained chest in 20 minutes... The next day did back and hams in 35 minutes... His rest breaks were only around 30 secs at the most... Reps stayed in the 8-10 range on everything... Supersetted some stuff along the way... Anyway, after his last day of training at my gym (he was down on vacation) I asked him about his training style and nutrition... He said that it wasn't until he started backing off of the heavy weights and incorporated shorter rest breaks between sets did he really start growing... He said before when he was killing himself trying to go to failure and going heavy as possible, he would wake up every morning hurting... But not muscle soreness, but rather joint pain... He said its hard to concentrate on the muscle you are working when there is so much stress being put on your joints... So he said lighten the weights and concentrate on the muscle you're training and stop bullshitting with your buddies... He said I should be done with any muscle group within 30 minutes.. If not I'm wasting too much time talking or at the water fountain... I have since started incorporating his philosophy and it is working... I do not hurt all of the time, and for the first time in a while I am getting great muscle pumps... I will say this again, it is all relative... Do what works for you! This is just what I have recently encountered and it seems to be working for now.... But what works for one may not for someone else... Thats why trial and error is the only effective way to answer this question for one's self...

im sure he built a good bit of mass lifting heavy as well though. i think both need to be incorporated...much like a periodization program.

swervedriver · Aug 2, 2007

Flex, he did say that when he first started training he fell into the trap of trying to be the strongest guy in the gym... Ego thing... But he said that even though he was getting progressively stronger, his size was not anywhere comparable to his strength levels... So he did what all of us try to do, he sought help from someone who was already at the level he wanted to be... He said he actually got hooked up with this bodybuilder in a neighboring town and began training with him... He said that this guy is the one who put him on the path to growing... He said he dropped his protein down to around 300 grams a day (was taking in around 400+) and upped his carb and "good" fat intake... He said that coupled with the training style I mentioned above has made a HUGE difference in his size gains... As I'm sure many will say, that this had more to do with the change in his nutrition, and you would be right to a point.. But he said, that he no longer dreads going to the gym for fear of injuries due to heavy heavy training... He wakes up feeling good, with no joint pain... He said, he is in and out of the gym in 20 to 30 minutes no matter what bodypart he's training... He made the same point KM2000 made, it is all about intensity... And for him the constant moving (aka 30 sec rest breaks) is his way of pushing the intensity level... When I saw him he was weighing around 260lbs at 5'7 or so... Bodyfat hoovering around 10%... He was in great condition to be in offseason mode... Again, this is just one guy, and what he found worked for him... I have been implementing the training and I will agree that I do feel better (joint wise) and have been getting killer pumps... Which is always a plus... lol

HELLA SWOLE · Aug 2, 2007

km2000 said:
its not about heavy or light weight, its about intensity....

So are you saying it's all about training to failure, whether the weight is light or not? Or are you referring to others means of intensity?

Also, swerverdriver, pumps do not necessarily equate to muscular gains. Just remember that.

gten79 · Aug 2, 2007

Different effects are achieved through different loads which can be achieved by adjusting the time under tension.

Very heavy loads, low TUT equals mainly CNS stimulation (strength)

Moderate loads, moderate TUT equals mainly myofibril growth (actual increase in fiber thickness)

Light load, higher TUT equals sarcoplasmic hypertophy which means increase glycogen and nutrient capacity and also musclular endurance.

Has nothing to do with Volume, HIT, or whatever flavor of the month program people are talking about. Its about load. Always has, always will and there are several methods to achieve it.

One guy swears by his program, the other swears by his. They ALL incorporate basic criteria to achieve some sort of hypertrophy so arguing which ones is the best without looking at HOW muscle grows and what stimuli exert different effects is a waste.

There is never just one muscle or one type of hypertrophy you want. You want them all to extent but focus on one area a bit more for your own personal goal.

bigriz · Aug 2, 2007

heavy

I always lift heavy for my work sets but I do good warmup sets first usually 1-2 warmup sets, then super heavy like 6-8 reps, I believe in failure and totally killing the muscle, I have blow up off of this routine, But every one is different. Good Luck man!