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Help me go about this;

What athletic metrics are you trying to hit? Will help guide the conversation a bit.

Your all over the place (as am I) with pad work, rolling, sprints, etc. but does anything take precedence?

To start the conversation:
I have set physical standards I have to maintain for work function annually culminating in a bi-yearly test. As long as I do not stray from these standards more than 15% I can pursue whatever endeavors that interest me.

Fitness needs to get broken down to
Work capacity
Endurance
Range of motion
Strength/Explosiveness
General athletic movement

For programming I highly recommend Jeff Nichols, he writes all my stuff. Power program is legit the tits. If you are new to athletic programming I highly recommend starting here and following it to a T.


Diet - I am a massive fan of carb cycling. Depending on level of activity 3-4 days of 750 grams per day.
What is your base level of protein and fats? Assuming those don't also change on your high carb days.
Tren mile time legit went from 5:44 to over 7 with the same effort one week in.
Jesus. I mean, it affecting your mile time is not at all surprising but the degree is.
I never go over 200mg of test, anymore has sever cardiovascular downsides regarding performance.

100-150 is ideal, 200 keeps me a bit fuller and honestly I notice a difference in recovery. My E2 also crashed on anything less than 200 with primo or EQ.
What is your E2 typically with 200mg test and what level did EQ/primo drop it too? I'm personally a very low aromatizer (is that an actual word lol), and 1500ng/dl total test will give me anywhere from 5-10 pg/ml E2.
I would highly suggest starting with 150 test + 300 EQ.

Off season cruise is 200 test 300-400EQ. Minimum of a two a day + a performance session, usually 4,500 calorie burn days.

In season is usually a three a day + performance session.

2IU of GH year round. Playing around with weeks of 10 and 5iu per week. RHR while sleeping has raised from 42-44 to 62-66. It’s been an utter disaster. Have two more days of it to finish out the data I need.
What have you learned from the experiment thus far?
 
I'll defer to others for supplements.

But your food intake should likely be higher. You're eating under your calculated basal metabolic rate.

If you say you can eat, then you're going to need to eat. 250p is good for your weight. But 100c is a low carb day, unless you're deep into a diet. 30f is low. Carbs or fats or both can easily be higher.

Work on pushing your strength higher as well. No, strength doesn't inherently mean muscle mass. But they're strongly correlated.
 
What athletic metrics are you trying to hit? Will help guide the conversation a bit.

Your all over the place (as am I) with pad work, rolling, sprints, etc. but does anything take precedence?

To start the conversation:
I have set physical standards I have to maintain for work function annually culminating in a bi-yearly test. As long as I do not stray from these standards more than 15% I can pursue whatever endeavors that interest me.

Fitness needs to get broken down to
Work capacity
Endurance
Range of motion
Strength/Explosiveness
General athletic movement

For programming I highly recommend Jeff Nichols, he writes all my stuff. Power program is legit the tits. If you are new to athletic programming I highly recommend starting here and following it to a T.


Diet - I am a massive fan of carb cycling. Depending on level of activity 3-4 days of 750 grams per day.

Anabolics - If you aren’t destroying yourself (start monitoring your HRV, highly recommend an Oura ring over whoop band) I wouldn’t recommend “cycling”. 150-200 Test + 300 EQ + 2IU of GH year round has profound effects for me. 50mg of nandro helps a bit with joint pain. I have negative effects with 100mg+.

Anabolics I respond negatively to
More than 50mg nandro
DHB at 200+mg
Masteron any dosage
Primo at 400+mg
Tren at any dosage

When I say poor response DHB+Masteron+primo extreme pumps akin to compartment syndrome that limit performance and output

Tren mile time legit went from 5:44 to over 7 with the same effort one week in.

Unusual notations
Anavar - excited the CNS/PNS, fantastic for anaerobic performance. Do not take for distance runs though or performance events (Muay Thai/jitz).

Appreciate the response brother…

As far as what takes precedence;

Honestly, if I could look like Paulo Costa but have the striking power/explosiveness of Tyrone Spong and the grappling power/explosiveness/speed of Khamzat or Khabib….. That would be the perfect combo I’d have for myself lmao 🤣

But since I’m not a genetic elite, world champion athlete, I can probably LOOK close to Paulo because that’s just a body but I’ll probably never be on the level of anything close to a Spong, Khamzat, Khabib etc in terms of those types of skills…

But that’s what I would strive for as precedence is to look amazing but be the absolute best I can be in those martial arts skills..

That AND being as healthy as I can be while doing so…

Things like mile times, amount of weight lifted, endurance as a separate endeavor come faaaar 2nd behind those goals…

Of course doing what’s necessary to LOOK and PERFORM that way as best I can takes precedence as a whole…

And I’ll definitely check that guy out! Just looked at the page and it looks interesting…

I’ve never legitimately followed a specific program, always kinda just winged it and went by feeling…
 
No offense taken bro; it’s pretty true… Weight lifting/bodybuilding has never been a passion of mine, I actually find it really, really boring.. I prefer to train in anything functional fitness or definitley some grappling or cracking pads etc buuuuut that obviously doesn’t make one look the way I want lol, just speaking in a sense of what’s funner for me… But yea, I’m aware that weight lifting/bodybuilding style training is what I’ll need to get the look I want..

And let’s be clear with what I said;

I said that I don’t have any genetic gifts but I’m blessed to be able to eat absurd amounts of food and not get “fat”.. I also said I’m not the type to look like an NFL player eating like that lol…

But when I say “not get fat” I DONT mean bodybuilding standards… I’m aware there’s guys on this board that if you don’t have striated glutes then you’re fat lol.. Others consider anything above 10% fat, which I can agree with in those standards..

But there’s definitely guys on here who if they would eat the way I USED to eat, they’d be fat lards…

You’ve got guys like DanielTX who are eating 7-8k calories a day (if I recall correctly) to try and maintain above 280lbs…

You’ve got guys like Mikey Musumeci who eat 10k calories a day, literally eats pizza and pasta every night, and he’s like 140lbs and 6% bodyfat year round. (He’s a world champion BJJ guy, not a bodybuilder)…

And although I’m not one of those guys, I promise you I can hang eating with them and while yea, I don’t look like a freak, I definitely don’t look like I can eat that much…

In typing all this, I came up with the perfect explanation for my “gift”

“I can eat like a perma bulker and not look like a perma bulker” is probably what I should’ve said lmao 🤣

I know you’ve got some experience with that lol.. You’ve talked about how structured your diet is and how consistent you are and you’re lean year round but you had your phase where you perma bulked and were like 230lbs sloppy, right?? I couldn’t weigh 230lbs if my life depended on it lol…

But I do agree with you on everything though; I appreciate the fact you’re one of the few guys who also throws in the factor of diet, hard training and consistency every time you give advice… It’s the truth and a MAJOR factor..

I’ve looked good before, this isn’t my first time picking up weights etc, but let’s face it; being 22 years old with minimal responsibility and taking Tren etc is waaaaayy different than where my life is at now at 32, owning my own business and being hands on with absolutely everything.. That’s a huge factor that’s played into my inconsistency in these past few years…

But now that things are more consistent with my business, which is my highest priority, I can take care of myself and I’ve been consistent with training and diet the last 5 weeks without fail and plan on keeping that consistency throughout this endeavor.. I’ve put it off long enough..

So that’s what leads me to;

“What can I add in to my protocol to get to my goal faster, but still maintain health as a priority”

Because we both know, there’s only so fast consistency and diet will take you lol…
Very good points. I do think if you are doing grappling and functional stuff you would benefit from the most simple split and low volume like I suggested. If you don't love training those full body workouts have to suck. I love training and shudder at the thought of having to hit many partying one workout lol
 
I'll defer to others for supplements.

But your food intake should likely be higher. You're eating under your calculated basal metabolic rate.

If you say you can eat, then you're going to need to eat. 250p is good for your weight. But 100c is a low carb day, unless you're deep into a diet. 30f is low. Carbs or fats or both can easily be higher.

Work on pushing your strength higher as well. No, strength doesn't inherently mean muscle mass. But they're strongly correlated.

I wouldn’t say I’m “deep” into a diet but yea, I’m dieting to try to get as lean as I can, as fast as I can..

But yes, when I’m as lean as I want to be and when it’s time to grow I’ll be upping the food little by little to try or gain as much muscle as I can buuut maintain as lean as I can while doing so..

How do you calculate basal metabolic rate??

And yes, I am trying to progressively overload and get stronger even with this diet.. Albeit different type of routine in a full body split I’m currently doing..
 
Very good points. I do think if you are doing grappling and functional stuff you would benefit from the most simple split and low volume like I suggested. If you don't love training those full body workouts have to suck. I love training and shudder at the thought of having to hit many partying one workout lol

Yea I’ll definitely be switching up to a type of routine like the one you recommended when I start training more often and I’ll have to surely separate muscle groups and lower the volume, I just found a good Muay Thai/MMA gym I’m about to start, the other gym I was at before only offered grappling/BJJ..

And actually, the full body workouts aren’t so bad.. Even with my dislike of this type of training…

Although it may seem like more work having to hit each body part every day; I feel like I’m finishing faster, and the volume isn’t high by any means, maybe total weekly it is but I go day by day as high or low volume..

I do 1 warm up set for each body part then go to failure on set 2 and move on to the next body part…

Of course I’m not using huge weights for these types of exercises as I wouldn’t be able to recover..

But it’s been nice so far
 
Yea I’ll definitely be switching up to a type of routine like the one you recommended when I start training more often and I’ll have to surely separate muscle groups and lower the volume, I just found a good Muay Thai/MMA gym I’m about to start, the other gym I was at before only offered grappling/BJJ..

And actually, the full body workouts aren’t so bad.. Even with my dislike of this type of training…

Although it may seem like more work having to hit each body part every day; I feel like I’m finishing faster, and the volume isn’t high by any means, maybe total weekly it is but I go day by day as high or low volume..

I do 1 warm up set for each body part then go to failure on set 2 and move on to the next body part…

Of course I’m not using huge weights for these types of exercises as I wouldn’t be able to recover..

But it’s been nice so far
I think two things you said stand out

You want to look like Costa

You admit your not using heavy weight because you want to recover

To look like Costa from where your at now, you are going to have to get much much stronger. Volume and circuit training wont get you there with your genetics and not wanting to fat-bulk

If you want to grow lean your going to need to add lbs to your lifts over time and actually build muscle

Volume and pumps and short rest intervals aren't going to add lbs of lean tissue to your frame.
 
I wouldn’t say I’m “deep” into a diet but yea, I’m dieting to try to get as lean as I can, as fast as I can..

But yes, when I’m as lean as I want to be and when it’s time to grow I’ll be upping the food little by little to try or gain as much muscle as I can buuut maintain as lean as I can while doing so..

How do you calculate basal metabolic rate??

And yes, I am trying to progressively overload and get stronger even with this diet.. Albeit different type of routine in a full body split I’m currently doing..
Mifflin St. Jeor equation.

If you're pushing the diet hard, your calories aren't too low.
 
i use this thread because my question is similar, at the moment i am doing trt with 200 test and 2ui gh. if i wanted to do a mini blast (no more than 500mg total per week) in your experience, is it better to add to 200 of test, 200 of npp or do 400-500 of test only?
 
Responding on my phone so please bare with me:

Your goals seem more in line with mine than a “bodybuilder”. I have multiple logs in the log section, all performance based. Heaps of data, over 100 labs completed.

I never go over 200mg of test, anymore has sever cardiovascular downsides regarding performance.

100-150 is ideal, 200 keeps me a bit fuller and honestly I notice a difference in recovery. My E2 also crashed on anything less than 200 with primo or EQ.

I would highly suggest starting with 150 test + 300 EQ.

Off season cruise is 200 test 300-400EQ. Minimum of a two a day + a performance session, usually 4,500 calorie burn days.

In season is usually a three a day + performance session.

2IU of GH year round. Playing around with weeks of 10 and 5iu per week. RHR while sleeping has raised from 42-44 to 62-66. It’s been an utter disaster. Have two more days of it to finish out the data I need.

Primo is fantastic however I get some pretty insane pumps at over 500-600mg that hinder performance.

Can go into detail if you would like. Just typing on the phone is a bit hard. I bounce between 212 and 217 at 11-13% year round. Maintain triple six year round (600 squat, 600 dead, 6 min mile), sub 2 min 800.

I agree with this, higher test and deca make me feel heavy and slow. Do you know what gear works well for you? I'd find something like EQ, mast, primo that can be run longer since your trying to gain some tissue. Start low and Reverse diet to stay leaner.
 
Yea I’ll definitely be switching up to a type of routine like the one you recommended when I start training more often and I’ll have to surely separate muscle groups and lower the volume, I just found a good Muay Thai/MMA gym I’m about to start, the other gym I was at before only offered grappling/BJJ..

And actually, the full body workouts aren’t so bad.. Even with my dislike of this type of training…

Although it may seem like more work having to hit each body part every day; I feel like I’m finishing faster, and the volume isn’t high by any means, maybe total weekly it is but I go day by day as high or low volume..

I do 1 warm up set for each body part then go to failure on set 2 and move on to the next body part…

Of course I’m not using huge weights for these types of exercises as I wouldn’t be able to recover..

But it’s been nice so far

I ride bikes and do BJJ. Test,mast,eq is very popular with MMA/BJJ crowd. All relatively lower than body building doses.
 
I ride bikes and do BJJ. Test,mast,eq is very popular with MMA/BJJ crowd. All relatively lower than body building doses.
Do the MMA/BJJ guys use any orals besides maybe some halo a week or two pre-fight? Supposedly, Turinabol is popular in those crowds.

And from what I understand, they typically stay below 600mg total. Is that mostly on point?
 
I think two things you said stand out

You want to look like Costa

You admit your not using heavy weight because you want to recover

To look like Costa from where your at now, you are going to have to get much much stronger. Volume and circuit training wont get you there with your genetics and not wanting to fat-bulk

If you want to grow lean your going to need to add lbs to your lifts over time and actually build muscle

Volume and pumps and short rest intervals aren't going to add lbs of lean tissue to your frame.

Bro…… Be honest right now….. Are you reading everything I’m saying?

Lmao 🤣

Because we completely agree with each other…

Yea my journey to look like that from where I am now; I definitely need to lift some weights and get stronger etc… Which is what I said I would do when I transition from getting to as low bodyfat as I can to gaining size.. I’ll be raising the food and changing the training routine completely…

Right now I’m only doing the full body split because I’ve heard great things about it from guys on here who use it when dieting and they’ve gotten great results…

Im not doing circuit training per se, there is resistance training involved as well..

But yea dude, right now I’m just concentrated in getting as lean as I can while trying to hold on to the muscle that I have…

Im doing this in phases… Concentrating on one thing at a time… Right now it’s getting lean, then I’ll worry about gaining size buuut also, keeping my bodyfat down with mini cuts in between..

I think it’s more complicated to try and do both at the same time and just try to gain 10-15lbs while also dropping significant bodyfat…

I think it’s possible, but taking 400mg total is not going to get me 15lbs of muscle and drop another 5% bodyfat lol that would be for the “Fuck my health, I don’t care” category lol
 
Do the MMA/BJJ guys use any orals besides maybe some halo a week or two pre-fight? Supposedly, Turinabol is popular in those crowds.

And from what I understand, they typically stay below 600mg total. Is that mostly on point?

Yeah most stay around 600-700mg smaller guys 450mg. Some use T-bol or var. Pulsed or short time to avoid being to pumped.
 
No offense taken bro; it’s pretty true… Weight lifting/bodybuilding has never been a passion of mine, I actually find it really, really boring.. I prefer to train in anything functional fitness or definitley some grappling or cracking pads etc buuuuut that obviously doesn’t make one look the way I want lol, just speaking in a sense of what’s funner for me… But yea, I’m aware that weight lifting/bodybuilding style training is what I’ll need to get the look I want..

And let’s be clear with what I said;

I said that I don’t have any genetic gifts but I’m blessed to be able to eat absurd amounts of food and not get “fat”.. I also said I’m not the type to look like an NFL player eating like that lol…

But when I say “not get fat” I DONT mean bodybuilding standards… I’m aware there’s guys on this board that if you don’t have striated glutes then you’re fat lol.. Others consider anything above 10% fat, which I can agree with in those standards..

But there’s definitely guys on here who if they would eat the way I USED to eat, they’d be fat lards…

You’ve got guys like DanielTX who are eating 7-8k calories a day (if I recall correctly) to try and maintain above 280lbs…

You’ve got guys like Mikey Musumeci who eat 10k calories a day, literally eats pizza and pasta every night, and he’s like 140lbs and 6% bodyfat year round. (He’s a world champion BJJ guy, not a bodybuilder)…

And although I’m not one of those guys, I promise you I can hang eating with them and while yea, I don’t look like a freak, I definitely don’t look like I can eat that much…

In typing all this, I came up with the perfect explanation for my “gift”

“I can eat like a perma bulker and not look like a perma bulker” is probably what I should’ve said lmao 🤣

I know you’ve got some experience with that lol.. You’ve talked about how structured your diet is and how consistent you are and you’re lean year round but you had your phase where you perma bulked and were like 230lbs sloppy, right?? I couldn’t weigh 230lbs if my life depended on it lol…

But I do agree with you on everything though; I appreciate the fact you’re one of the few guys who also throws in the factor of diet, hard training and consistency every time you give advice… It’s the truth and a MAJOR factor..

I’ve looked good before, this isn’t my first time picking up weights etc, but let’s face it; being 22 years old with minimal responsibility and taking Tren etc is waaaaayy different than where my life is at now at 32, owning my own business and being hands on with absolutely everything.. That’s a huge factor that’s played into my inconsistency in these past few years…

But now that things are more consistent with my business, which is my highest priority, I can take care of myself and I’ve been consistent with training and diet the last 5 weeks without fail and plan on keeping that consistency throughout this endeavor.. I’ve put it off long enough..

So that’s what leads me to;

“What can I add in to my protocol to get to my goal faster, but still maintain health as a priority”

Because we both know, there’s only so fast consistency and diet will take you lol…
well GH first then, or and slin. 10 ius most days is fine. I did10 ius twice a day, pre and post resistance exercise, and it blew me up. Used it on chest and back. Next day 10 ius pre , arms, front and rear delts.
 
Test 100mg 3x week

Nandrolone 100mg 3x week

Primo 100mg 3x week

2iu GH per day.

Thats still 900mg per week to be honest.

You could drop the Primo for a bulk, or add Primo for a cut and lower T to 50mg 3x week.

Either way, there are 3 compounds in my experience that are fairly light on lipids.

Eat clean, take your health sups, get regular bloods done and do your cardio.
 
Bro…… Be honest right now….. Are you reading everything I’m saying?

Lmao 🤣

Because we completely agree with each other…

Yea my journey to look like that from where I am now; I definitely need to lift some weights and get stronger etc… Which is what I said I would do when I transition from getting to as low bodyfat as I can to gaining size.. I’ll be raising the food and changing the training routine completely…

Right now I’m only doing the full body split because I’ve heard great things about it from guys on here who use it when dieting and they’ve gotten great results…

Im not doing circuit training per se, there is resistance training involved as well..

But yea dude, right now I’m just concentrated in getting as lean as I can while trying to hold on to the muscle that I have…

Im doing this in phases… Concentrating on one thing at a time… Right now it’s getting lean, then I’ll worry about gaining size buuut also, keeping my bodyfat down with mini cuts in between..

I think it’s more complicated to try and do both at the same time and just try to gain 10-15lbs while also dropping significant bodyfat…

I think it’s possible, but taking 400mg total is not going to get me 15lbs of muscle and drop another 5% bodyfat lol that would be for the “Fuck my health, I don’t care” category lol
I'm trying to follow sorry very busy so I skim posts

I would say the only thing I disagree..I would start doing low volume low frequency now ...not plan to have a cutting routine then a bulking routine

I personally wouldn't retain muscle well or do well in general when cutting, those full body workout aren't going to burn some ungodly amount of calories vs a traditional routine..

It I was eating 1600 calories I would still do a bro split just maybe drop a little volume and considering I'm on gear and not near my genetic potential I absolutely would plan to get stronger. I would not say " I'm cutting I'm just hoping to maintain my lifts " per se

I always get stronger even when a defect if I'm on gear and training hard and allowing recovery and keeping protein high
 
Test 100mg 3x week

Nandrolone 100mg 3x week

Primo 100mg 3x week

2iu GH per day.
This is good but trade the deca for mast
 
Thats still 900mg per week to be honest.

You could drop the Primo for a bulk, or add Primo for a cut and lower T to 50mg 3x week.

Either way, there are 3 compounds in my experience that are fairly light on lipids.

Eat clean, take your health sups, get regular bloods done and do your cardio.
I wouldn’t be hung up on total mg either you mentioned tren so you already no all MGs are not equal primo is ultra mild and deca is pretty mild, my buddy who is 44 and does mma and must Thai is on dr trt and gets 200 test 200 deca and his total was 1600 so the doc dropped the deca to 100 and he was 850s which is true trt. There r guys on here who have docs that have them over 1,000 so there is room there and if you do take a more aggressive approach and r this worried just get labs monthly and adjust. Do you have a health condition already or are you just afraid, they don’t happen over night if you get bad labs it’s a quick easy adjustment bro.
 
i use this thread because my question is similar, at the moment i am doing trt with 200 test and 2ui gh. if i wanted to do a mini blast (no more than 500mg total per week) in your experience, is it better to add to 200 of test, 200 of npp or do 400-500 of test only?
If your goal is performance / athleticism stay far… far away from 500 test or that much NPP

Sorry for the delay guys, in San Antonio for the weekend visiting some family
 

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