Help me go about this;

[Performance Based]

Appreciate the response brother…

As far as what takes precedence;

Honestly, if I could look like Paulo Costa but have the striking power/explosiveness of Tyrone Spong and the grappling power/explosiveness/speed of Khamzat or Khabib….. That would be the perfect combo I’d have for myself lmao

But since I’m not a genetic elite, world champion athlete, I can probably LOOK close to Paulo because that’s just a body but I’ll probably never be on the level of anything close to a Spong, Khamzat, Khabib etc in terms of those types of skills…

But that’s what I would strive for as precedence is to look amazing but be the absolute best I can be in those martial arts skills..

That AND being as healthy as I can be while doing so…

Things like mile times, amount of weight lifted, endurance as a separate endeavor come faaaar 2nd behind those goals…

Of course doing what’s necessary to LOOK and PERFORM that way as best I can takes precedence as a whole…

And I’ll definitely check that guy out! Just looked at the page and it looks interesting…

I’ve never legitimately followed a specific program, always kinda just winged it and went by feeling…

In brevity try the power program - if you don’t think you can get close to that level of athleticism / power generation you are about to be blown away.

Not following proper programming, the foundation of it all and you won’t elicit changes that are necessary.

I was a bit split guy till about 05 when I went into the military, proper periodization and measurable metrics were huge at my command. Everything changed. Go down this route with proper diet and anabolics and you start looking at the metrics top tier athletes hold and you realize how low their standards or performance are.

16 weeks and you’ll be where your listed athletes are or better if you attack this with proper tenacity.

 

[Cerberus777]

If your goal is performance / athleticism stay far… far away from 500 test or that much NPP

Sorry for the delay guys, in San Antonio for the weekend visiting some family

Agreed. Stay away from anything "wet" and IMHO over 4iu GH, every 5lbs you gain, you take a cardio hit you need to improve on, holding water is worse. Getting bigger without gasing out is a balance.

 

[NEMSZ]

I'm trying to follow sorry very busy so I skim posts

I would say the only thing I disagree..I would start doing low volume low frequency now ...not plan to have a cutting routine then a bulking routine

I personally wouldn't retain muscle well or do well in general when cutting, those full body workout aren't going to burn some ungodly amount of calories vs a traditional routine..

It I was eating 1600 calories I would still do a bro split just maybe drop a little volume and considering I'm on gear and not near my genetic potential I absolutely would plan to get stronger. I would not say " I'm cutting I'm just hoping to maintain my lifts " per se

I always get stronger even when a defect if I'm on gear and training hard and allowing recovery and keeping protein high

No worries bro, was just joking with you lol I do the same thing when posts get too long and I know some of these have been long as hell..

But I appreciate your input..

And I guess I just feel like I’m doing more this way so it’s a mental game, with low volume traditional split I feel like I’m being lazy, even with the low calories…

I’m still trying to perform better day to day but I guess it is just a mental thing for me

 

[qbkilla]

No worries bro, was just joking with you lol I do the same thing when posts get too long and I know some of these have been long as hell..

But I appreciate your input..

And I guess I just feel like I’m doing more this way so it’s a mental game, with low volume traditional split I feel like I’m being lazy, even with the low calories…

I’m still trying to perform better day to day but I guess it is just a mental thing for me

Yeah that's a fair point. A less ideal would be beyond you believe in it vs something you hate doing. I know the Mike Israetel science community says the evidence says don't train to failure, do a million pump sets, tons of volume frequency, but I would hate spending 2 hours in the gym w day not hitting failure. So I go with the bro split I enjoy it, I enjoy training hard and getting in and out. So I choose the routine I won't hate just like you.

 

[Cerberus777]

Yeah that's a fair point. A less ideal would be beyond you believe in it vs something you hate doing. I know the Mike Israetel science community says the evidence says don't train to failure, do a million pump sets, tons of volume frequency, but I would hate spending 2 hours in the gym w day not hitting failure. So I go with the bro split I enjoy it, I enjoy training hard and getting in and out. So I choose the routine I won't hate just like you.

The best workout is the one you will do consistently. I could not imagine 2+ hours. I like to feel like I killed it. In my training for the bike there is a LISS cardio period. It's the worst.

 

[Swifto]

I wouldn’t be hung up on total mg either you mentioned tren so you already no all MGs are not equal primo is ultra mild and deca is pretty mild, my buddy who is 44 and does mma and must Thai is on dr trt and gets 200 test 200 deca and his total was 1600 so the doc dropped the deca to 100 and he was 850s which is true trt. There r guys on here who have docs that have them over 1,000 so there is room there and if you do take a more aggressive approach and r this worried just get labs monthly and adjust. Do you have a health condition already or are you just afraid, they don’t happen over night if you get bad labs it’s a quick easy adjustment bro.

I get bloods done a lot.

I'm 37 in February, I wouldn't say "afraid", I dont compete, just want to look good so I dont see a reason to use high doses and impact health significantly.

I partied a lot for 10-15 years and I think I did a lot of damage (although bloods are fine). I have a 1 year old daughter and damaging my health significantly or for extended period isn't an option.

Sorry OP, I dont mean to derail.

I'm good on Test, Nandrolone, Primo, GH 2ui per day, maybe an oral for 4 weeks once per year. No Tren.

 

[NEMSZ]

In brevity try the power program - if you don’t think you can get close to that level of athleticism / power generation you are about to be blown away.

Not following proper programming, the foundation of it all and you won’t elicit changes that are necessary.

I was a bit split guy till about 05 when I went into the military, proper periodization and measurable metrics were huge at my command. Everything changed. Go down this route with proper diet and anabolics and you start looking at the metrics top tier athletes hold and you realize how low their standards or performance are.

16 weeks and you’ll be where your listed athletes are or better if you attack this with proper tenacity.

Damn, you really think so?? 16 weeks?!

I’d be damn impressed if I can get there at all, let alone in 4-5 months… lol

Have you seen how some of these top level grapplers scramble?? It’s fucking insane how explosive they are..

But I’m definitely going to check it out and incorporate it into my training…

 

[Performance Based]

Damn, you really think so?? 16 weeks?!

I’d be damn impressed if I can get there at all, let alone in 4-5 months… lol

Have you seen how some of these top level grapplers scramble?? It’s fucking insane how explosive they are..

But I’m definitely going to check it out and incorporate it into my training…

100% - Depending on your base level athleticism you’ll be close or at that level. Run through the power program then message me.

It’s purely an assessment of skills then actually breaking down these skills into multiple modalities that can be trained in conjunction multiple times per week to increase base line performance.

These athletes typically only trained their competitive skill then baseline endurance or strength. Jeff’s stuff is truly third generation regarding physiological adaptation.

Jeff Nichols and Ross Edgley are two guys to look into. They write and do all the programming for the largest and most well funded human performance program on the planet.

 

[marssel]

If your goal is performance / athleticism stay far… far away from 500 test or that much NPP

Sorry for the delay guys, in San Antonio for the weekend visiting some family

Not a fan of NPP but know many people athletes and military special operators that run 500 of test so that is inaccurate. If u take test and train like and athlete and don’t gorge protein you build a different body. You really believe the Bolts and Armstrongs of the world use less. I know Ben whatever the fuck his name was the Canadian sprinter got popped for test and dball and I knew his dealer and he took much more Olympic sprinter is pretty athletic doing 20 mile ruck runs ain’t no joke. Bodybuilders are unathletic bc we stop running stop doing athletic activities the way we did before growing became god.

 

[marssel]

I get bloods done a lot.

I'm 37 in February, I wouldn't say "afraid", I dont compete, just want to look good so I dont see a reason to use high doses and impact health significantly.

I partied a lot for 10-15 years and I think I did a lot of damage (although bloods are fine). I have a 1 year old daughter and damaging my health significantly or for extended period isn't an option.

Sorry OP, I dont mean to derail.

I'm good on Test, Nandrolone, Primo, GH 2ui per day, maybe an oral for 4 weeks once per year. No Tren.

I feel you I’m 44 and have a newborn so a lot has changed for me and I’ll admit some days I am afraid but I get my labs and luckily my family is long lived fat, skinny, sober, or alki. We all partied some I only truly partied hard my first year out of the Marine Corps but being 23 and in such great shape as well as still natty I doubt it hurt me. I’ll say this the casual drug user is way better off than the daily drinker or smoker/vaper.

 

[Performance Based]

Not a fan of NPP but know many people athletes and military special operators that run 500 of test so that is inaccurate. If u take test and train like and athlete and don’t gorge protein you build a different body. You really believe the Bolts and Armstrongs of the world use less. I know Ben whatever the fuck his name was the Canadian sprinter got popped for test and dball and I knew his dealer and he took much more Olympic sprinter is pretty athletic doing 20 mile ruck runs ain’t no joke. Bodybuilders are unathletic bc we stop running stop doing athletic activities the way we did before growing became god.

Morning Marssel -

I hate disagreements online mate but holding firm on my post. I fully understand we haven’t interacted much on this forum and you may not follow my training/logs.

Few things here - Bodybuilders are not athletic due to a myriad of factors. Primarily being lactate threshold work. Running is a very small portion of it. Non ballistic work, fascial chain work and the list continues.

Bodybuilders think of water retention purely (not in all cases) as being subcutaneous or intramuscular. There is also severe pleural “bloat” that occurs when aromatic atop new occurs. A huge chunk of compounds also effect pulmonary and cardiological function in a negative function as well. There will be certain outliers in regards to individuals who do not have RHR and performance based BP spikes while doing sprints or LSD runs etc but that is few and far between.

As far as the “special operators” aspect of your post. Fully get you don’t follow my stuff, follow my social media etc.

I spent 15 years with an east coast SEAL team and now work human performance for one of the three tier one organizations on this planet. No one is running over 300mg test, rarely are individuals running over 100mg. Weight gain is unavoidable and directly hinders performance. The amount of data out there on this stuff for performance now not bodybuilding, is overwheliming.

Baseline physical requirements - baseline to just get into the door not pass a course.

3 miles 18 minutes
30 pull ups
120 sit ups
140 push ups

Compounds are meticulously studied to ensure they do not interfere with these requirements to ensure operator longevity and success as part of their replacement therapies.

Put anyone from this community on 500 test and they will fall off hard and fast.

If your with a non US based special operations group with far more lax requirements in all sincerity it doesn’t matter much (for the most part).

 

[qbkilla]

Not a fan of NPP but know many people athletes and military special operators that run 500 of test so that is inaccurate. If u take test and train like and athlete and don’t gorge protein you build a different body. You really believe the Bolts and Armstrongs of the world use less. I know Ben whatever the fuck his name was the Canadian sprinter got popped for test and dball and I knew his dealer and he took much more Olympic sprinter is pretty athletic doing 20 mile ruck runs ain’t no joke. Bodybuilders are unathletic bc we stop running stop doing athletic activities the way we did before growing became god.

I think this last sentence is spot on. One thing I realized years ago, I wanted to continue adding size but also want to look athletic. Added more cardio, HIIT, stretching, focused less on the scale more about just looking good. I think being athletic, cardy, flexible enhance recovery.

 

[Cerberus777]

Not a fan of NPP but know many people athletes and military special operators that run 500 of test so that is inaccurate. If u take test and train like and athlete and don’t gorge protein you build a different body. You really believe the Bolts and Armstrongs of the world use less. I know Ben whatever the fuck his name was the Canadian sprinter got popped for test and dball and I knew his dealer and he took much more Olympic sprinter is pretty athletic doing 20 mile ruck runs ain’t no joke. Bodybuilders are unathletic bc we stop running stop doing athletic activities the way we did before growing became god.

Lance Armstrong took 150mg test 4iu GH and a lot of EPO and RBC doping. Dabbled in GW1516 before the ban. Said more test slowed him down. His protocol is very much the same as most endurance athletes.

 

[cmryan]

Lance Armstrong took 150mg test 4iu GH and a lot of EPO and RBC doping. Dabbled in GW1516 before the ban. Said more test slowed him down. His protocol is very much the same as most endurance athletes.

I thought he and alot of cyclists also used a plethora of other drugs such as (but probably not limited to) corticosteroids, pain killers (tramadol in [articular) and insulin at times. Or was that never substantiated?

 

[Cerberus777]

I thought he and alot of cyclists also used a plethora of other drugs such as (but probably not limited to) corticosteroids, pain killers (tramadol in [articular) and insulin at times. Or was that never substantiated?

Yeah, I didn't feel like listening them all. Cortisone once or twice a week. Insulin was used for either recovery or to get into ketosis quickly for fat adaption / fasted since you can't consume enough calories an hour to sustain during a long race. Pain killers were used bytestes. Cialas in high altitude, they all have asthma to get scripted for albutural.. Most of this is what a tested athlete has to work with and not ideal. Most would do 300-400 of eq If not tested.

 

[Performance Based]

Lance Armstrong took 150mg test 4iu GH and a lot of EPO and RBC doping. Dabbled in GW1516 before the ban. Said more test slowed him down. His protocol is very much the same as most endurance athletes.

Good stuff as always. Sheer curiosity; I know nothing of performance cycling.

Where did you read about his utilization? I’d love to familiarize myself with the anecdotes/intricacies of this sport.

I grabbed that running book everyone was talking about in one of the logs about PED utilization for the 80s/90s Olympics and it was very dated. Curious as to early 00s use.

 

[Cerberus777]

Good stuff as always. Sheer curiosity; I know nothing of performance cycling.

Where did you read about his utilization? I’d love to familiarize myself with the anecdotes/intricacies of this sport.

I grabbed that running book everyone was talking about in one of the logs about PED utilization for the 80s/90s Olympics and it was very dated. Curious as to early 00s use.

He's got a few podcast out. Pretty open since he got busted. Has been on a few message boards. I know a few road bike racers that can confirm his statements are pretty much standard for racing. He did what everyone else did. And they'll all try anything not on the WADA list. GW, SN9009, and ITPP had they're run of popularity.

 

[Performance Based]

He's got a few podcast out. Pretty open since he got busted. Has been on a few message boards. I know a few road bike racers that can confirm his statements are pretty much standard for racing. He did what everyone else did. And they'll all try anything not on the WADA list. GW, SN9009, and ITPP had they're run of popularity.

Pardon my ignorance, ITPP?

I googled and came across some type of anime.

 

[Cerberus777]

myo-Inositol trispyrophosphate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

@Performance Based
Pretty awesome stuff, but supply has dried up. I've been trying to find some. It makes RBC carry up to 30% more oxygen. Mixed with a little EPO you can go on forever and your anaerobic threshold increases a lot.

 

[Performance Based]

myo-Inositol trispyrophosphate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

@Performance Based
Pretty awesome stuff, but supply has dried up. I've been trying to find some. It makes RBC carry up to 30% more oxygen. Mixed with a little EPO you can go on forever and your anaerobic threshold increases a lot.

Interesting - sounds like I know what rabbit hole I am going down tomorrow.