Help understanding my echo test

[specter]

great "healthcare" in the UK

Thats fuckin weird, where i live if the wait is longer then 4 weeks you can go private on the states bill.

 

[traininsane11]

I had a friend who waited 24 months to get a cpap machine through the NHS so I can only imagine I will be done with bodybuilding by the time I get these tests

Tbh though it is what it is my initial results aren’t terrible at all , we’re proceeding forward in a sensible manner and I can just keep up with bloodwork and the couple of basic tests I’m able to access (echo and calcium) when needed

I’ve spoken to that many people now who’ve had botched test results I’m honestly probably not going to be paying stupid amounts for them

 

[luki7788]

Thats fuckin weird, where i live if the wait is longer then 4 weeks you can go private on the states bill.

In Poland waiting lists for specialists like cardiologists can be as long as 6-12 months, and sometimes you have to wait up to 2 years for an appointment if you use the public healthcare system (unless you're from Ukraine, then you get in without waiting in line, lol – that's why Poles are so hostile towards Ukrainian immigrants).

Of course, in private practice, the same doctor will see you the same day if you pay, lol.

 

[traininsane11]

Pretty sure someone asked on here what was the most gh Chris Tuttle has his guys use

Listening through on one of the podcasts he speaks very highly of gh but says he doesn’t have anyone on above 7iu

 

[3BILLS]

Pretty sure someone asked on here what was the most gh Chris Tuttle has his guys use

Listening through on one of the podcasts he speaks very highly of gh but says he doesn’t have anyone on above 7iu

Then Kyle jokes about is it 7 or 17

 

[massephase]

Then Kyle jokes about is it 7 or 17

7iu three times a day?

Like the joke from Dennis James about 1 sustanon 1 deca, where he didnt say whether its per day or per week.

 

[traininsane11]

Then Kyle jokes about is it 7 or 17

7iu three times a day?

Like the joke from Dennis James about 1 sustanon 1 deca, where he didnt say whether its per day or per week.

7iu does seem low (or maybe I’m just jaded from being on here) but I’m inclined to believe him he is very health oriented

Assuming everyone isn’t lying which I don’t believe they are most seem to fall in the 5-10iu range across the board of coaches and high level athletes

I think I fell into the noob trap of assuming people were telling half truths and 15iu+ of gh and 3/4/5g+ of gear for years on end was the “secret” and I’d just discredit anyone who did normal amounts as a liar or genetic freak (and I’m sure many guys do run biiiig doses usually guys you never hear off cause they don’t amount to much or end up dead) but I genuinely believe now if you “have” to do this then bodybuilding isn’t for you

I’m yet to speak or hear off someone that overly high dosages brought any better results in fact quite the opposite

Genetics+sensible approaches+consistency+time+genetics x2

That’s the secret IMO

 

[R3aper7]

I am spent. The path I followed breathlessly has faded among the stones; in spiritual ambition, I have neglected my children and done myself harm, and there is no way back. Nor has anything changed; I am still be set by the same old lust and ego and emotions, the endless nagging details and irritations – that aching gap between what I know and what I am.

Peter Mathieson, The Snow Leopard

damn this got me, That’s a hard read for anyone in pursuit of anything at all. For those of us in search of greatness, balance is going to be your sacrifice.

 

[traininsane11]

7iu does seem low (or maybe I’m just jaded from being on here) but I’m inclined to believe him he is very health oriented

Assuming everyone isn’t lying which I don’t believe they are most seem to fall in the 5-10iu range across the board of coaches and high level athletes

I think I fell into the noob trap of assuming people were telling half truths and 15iu+ of gh and 3/4/5g+ of gear for years on end was the “secret” and I’d just discredit anyone who did normal amounts as a liar or genetic freak (and I’m sure many guys do run biiiig doses usually guys you never hear off cause they don’t amount to much or end up dead) but I genuinely believe now if you “have” to do this then bodybuilding isn’t for you

I’m yet to speak or hear off someone that overly high dosages brought any better results in fact quite the opposite

Genetics+sensible approaches+consistency+time+genetics x2

That’s the secret IMO

And this is coming from someone who didn’t even need high dosages seemingly but like a retard did it anyway, I had plenty of very smart people tell me I didn't need to do it but because of how many of us think we do it anyway because the extreme is where it’s at and more is better no matter what mentality many of us have

Speaking personally I couldn’t accept that I could do it on less because I viewed myself as having terrible genetics (they’re not elite but they aren’t terrible, quite far from it) so I had to compensate by doing more than everyone else

Fact is if I didn’t have the genetics then I shouldn’t do it either because it’s not going to make something magical happen just trash your health instead and still make mediocre results

Super super glad I’ve had a wake up call and can see things from a perspective that isn’t just straight ignorance/delusion/inexperience

I got very lucky in the sense of it’s easy to reverse out of the road I was headed but many don’t until it’s to late I just hope that even if thread just helps 1 person like me see sense then it’s worth it

 

[3BILLS]

7iu does seem low (or maybe I’m just jaded from being on here) but I’m inclined to believe him he is very health oriented

Assuming everyone isn’t lying which I don’t believe they are most seem to fall in the 5-10iu range across the board of coaches and high level athletes

I think I fell into the noob trap of assuming people were telling half truths and 15iu+ of gh and 3/4/5g+ of gear for years on end was the “secret” and I’d just discredit anyone who did normal amounts as a liar or genetic freak (and I’m sure many guys do run biiiig doses usually guys you never hear off cause they don’t amount to much or end up dead) but I genuinely believe now if you “have” to do this then bodybuilding isn’t for you

I’m yet to speak or hear off someone that overly high dosages brought any better results in fact quite the opposite

Genetics+sensible approaches+consistency+time+genetics x2

That’s the secret IMO

I believe for the most part his guys are probably running around that number.

I almost find it harder to believe when a guy like Ian says he's only gone to 6-8iu max. Only because in his prime he bleed bodybuilding and any extra advantage could have possibly helped him.
Why not even try 10+

 

[traininsane11]

I believe for the most part his guys are probably running around that number.

I almost find it harder to believe when a guy like Ian says he's only gone to 6-8iu max. Only because in his prime he bleed bodybuilding and any extra advantage could have possibly helped him.
Why not even try 10+

Can only speak from my own perspective and I feel many of us share similar mindsets and that’s to keep doing more until you go past the point of diminishing returns, hopefully realise and are smart enough to pull back to a sensible place and stay there

This I feel is what many guys who quote “low dosages” end up doing to reach those “low dosages”

Plus it’s much easier to maintain than build

 

[luki7788]

7iu does seem low (or maybe I’m just jaded from being on here) but I’m inclined to believe him he is very health oriented

Assuming everyone isn’t lying which I don’t believe they are most seem to fall in the 5-10iu range across the board of coaches and high level athletes

I think I fell into the noob trap of assuming people were telling half truths and 15iu+ of gh and 3/4/5g+ of gear for years on end was the “secret” and I’d just discredit anyone who did normal amounts as a liar or genetic freak (and I’m sure many guys do run biiiig doses usually guys you never hear off cause they don’t amount to much or end up dead) but I genuinely believe now if you “have” to do this then bodybuilding isn’t for you

I’m yet to speak or hear off someone that overly high dosages brought any better results in fact quite the opposite

Genetics+sensible approaches+consistency+time+genetics x2

That’s the secret IMO

Yes, to be honest, most stay in the range of 5 to 10 IU.

Honestly, about 95% of my clients don’t use more than 10 IU. And I also think that around 50%, or even more, maybe 70% (if we talk about competitors) use 10 IU.
I had in the past a few guys using around 15 IU, but in reality they did it only because they came to me already doing that. Right now I even have one client who started with me on 15 IU in the first year, so we kept it, but after the contest prep we dropped it down. Now he is max 10 IU, and I believe most people don’t need more.

Because if you respond well to GH and your GH-to-IGF conversion is good, then 10 IU will already maximize IGF for you. Going higher usually won’t give extra benefits for IGF, or for synergy with insulin and testosterone.
Sure, higher GH can give you more lipolysis, so it can be useful during a cutting phase. It can help you lose fat faster and stay a bit fuller. But there are other tools you can use for that.

If I had to choose between giving someone more than 10 IU, I would rather not do it. I would prefer adding something like IGF-1 LR3 in short cycles instead of pushing GH higher. Because honestly, above 10 IU it often doesn’t make much sense.

And on the other side: if someone responds poorly to GH, then taking more than 10 IU also won’t help, because the conversion to IGF is not good anyway, even if he takes 20 IU.

So in both situations, I don’t think going higher has much value.

 

[traininsane11]

Yes, to be honest, most stay in the range of 5 to 10 IU.

Honestly, about 95% of my clients don’t use more than 10 IU. And I also think that around 50%, or even more, maybe 70% (if we talk about competitors) use 10 IU.
I had in the past a few guys using around 15 IU, but in reality they did it only because they came to me already doing that. Right now I even have one client who started with me on 15 IU in the first year, so we kept it, but after the contest prep we dropped it down. Now he is max 10 IU, and I believe most people don’t need more.

Because if you respond well to GH and your GH-to-IGF conversion is good, then 10 IU will already maximize IGF for you. Going higher usually won’t give extra benefits for IGF, or for synergy with insulin and testosterone.
Sure, higher GH can give you more lipolysis, so it can be useful during a cutting phase. It can help you lose fat faster and stay a bit fuller. But there are other tools you can use for that.

If I had to choose between giving someone more than 10 IU, I would rather not do it. I would prefer adding something like IGF-1 LR3 in short cycles instead of pushing GH higher. Because honestly, above 10 IU it often doesn’t make much sense.

And on the other side: if someone responds poorly to GH, then taking more than 10 IU also won’t help, because the conversion to IGF is not good anyway, even if he takes 20 IU.

So in both situations, I don’t think going higher has much value.

As expected this makes perfect sense

A very basic analogy is the filling of a glass if the glass holds 10iu and you put 15iu well you filled the glass at 10iu and 5iu was wasted IE: side effects for no gains

Obviously peoples “glass amount” varies but I think we know the dosage/amount ranges if we’re honest with ourselves

It’s funny I and seemingly many others never believed “the pro’s” were gate keeping about anything other than gear

“No way the pros only eat 4-6k calories they’re definitely sneaking in 10k”

“No way the pros are only doing 12 sets for a muscle they’re definitely sneaking in 40 sets”

“No way he’s only doing 45 mins cardio he’s definitely sneaking in 3 hours”

Nope just gear

 

[AllLoadedUp]

100% agree with you

Started working with Luki who’s extremely knowledgeable in bodybuilding but also health related issues specific to mine

He’s gone over all my health stuff extensively and believes it’s nowhere near as bad as some stated and is very much an adaption to what we do but with some smart programming can be reversed and then progress forward smarter and safer

I don’t know if I will ever get any follow up tests as I spoke to the GP’s assistant and she said maybe sometime before 2030 as it would be weeks to months before the GP even looks at my referral request let alone begins to action it and that’s just step 1

So by the time (if ever) I get referred for more tests I imagine we will of long fixed the issues

Oh you're in UK. Yeh I've heard about the issues with the nationalized healthcare there. I'll keep my private stuff thank you very much. Lol. We have problems here also in the US but not having to go wait months and months just to see a doctor. Hell if I'm sick I can just go right up to the Urgent Care above my house. You sometimes have to wait a month or 2 to see a specialist sometimes. But just seeing a regular doctor is easy and quick. Good luck and take care of yourself. Life is short.

 

[MajinBoo]

In Poland waiting lists for specialists like cardiologists can be as long as 6-12 months, and sometimes you have to wait up to 2 years for an appointment if you use the public healthcare system (unless you're from Ukraine, then you get in without waiting in line, lol – that's why Poles are so hostile towards Ukrainian immigrants).

Of course, in private practice, the same doctor will see you the same day if you pay, lol.

Welcome to EU