Hematocrit. Does it really worth?

[trackstar19]

That is a massive jump. I mean I take it too and understand it’s contributing to elevated hematocrit alongside testosterone, but a 12% jump doesn’t match what we are supposed to see. I’m guessing some of that increase is from Jardiance and some of that is also from dehydration or some other cause. Have you retested or come off Jardiance and retested?

I have never had a symptom from a 60% hematocrit before that I can identify.

So no I actually increased my fluid intake(up to 240oz) as my H/H increased to offset the symptoms. 62/21 was morning measurement before hydration but after 120oz late afternoon it was still 60/20.5 (I was at the ER because of it - almost stroked out). Obviously my increase is a wild outlier most people have a 2-5% increase which is typically beneficial for the heart failure patients who are prescribed it. Clearly just not a drug for me, unfortunately. I did stop it a month ago and my last cbc this past Friday was 51.5/18.0. I suspect today it is even a bit lower as my usual pre-jardiance is 49/16.5 so I’m expecting it to slowly go back to around that. We will see when I retest in ~2-3 weeks.

But yes some peoples bodies seem to handle higher levels just fine and some not so much - which is why hematologists don’t mind high H/H in secondary polycythemia unless the patient is symptomatic. I had a fun chat with a hematologist about it last week.

good to see you posting again bro i thought you were dead



on a related note, anyone heard from @zacharykane lately?

Man unfortunately that was almost the case. Long story. I actually thought of you yesterday - I had an abdominal MRI to check out my liver tumor and see if it’s changed at all or still looks benign. Waiting on the results. How have you been man??

 

[Fleezy]

Man unfortunately that was almost the case. Long story. I actually thought of you yesterday - I had an abdominal MRI to check out my liver tumor and see if it’s changed at all or still looks benign. Waiting on the results. How have you been man??

Hoping for the best for you brother

As for me?

Azrael has got my number and is still out there looking for me

But Im still dodging him as best I can

 

[cherhanson]

I used to not believe it and let my hematocrit stay around 51.5% for months since my BP and HR were normal, until I did my first blood donation. I couldn’t believe how much better I felt and how many sides went away. I felt 20 lbs lighter, stopped feeling thirsty and overhydrated at the same time, and slept better. Now I donate blood every 3 months.

 

[Mufasa123]

I am working with a hematologist on this. He's pretty sharp on blood. We were discussing:

55 and below (or maybe 54) - no issues as long as you don't have symptoms. Recall those ranges are a 95% interval so 2.5 men in 100 will normally just be higher without any issue. Above that and any symptoms and it's a concern. 60 and he gets real worried as you don't want to see it much higher.

Polycythemia vera is where crit/rbc is high yet epo is low. Generally not a concern for us but something is fucked in that person. Our issue is increased test/androgen increases epo which drives rbc production from bone marrow. You can dump blood but if test/epo remains high, you will just rebuild it. Shit happens. Not some scary rebound, run high drugs and push yourself to high rbcs and crit, you can temporarily get things down but the environment is the same so your body is just going to gradually rebuild. Basically fat guy diets down but reverts to his fat guy diet and becomes fat again. Duh.

For me, I ran top end rbc/crit even with low test. Never had any symptoms and never once felt better after dumping blood (even with crits of 55/57/60).

So consider a 10% increase. Some guy is a 40 and now a 44 - no one cares. I was a 48-49 so now a 52-53 and insurance doesn't like it. Anyway 200mg moves me to top of range in serum test but epo is sky high. Quest range for epo is 2.5 to 18.5. I was like 90 or 100. At 75mg test I was low 20s. Trying 50mg weekly now - fuck my life. I expect it to be in range at this point. La de fucking da. They can be happy and I'll move on with my life.

This is what I know and his thoughts on it. For me, I just hydrate, watch it and if I move close to 55, I drop blood. Some drugs seem to increase it more than others. Hydration fucking matters a lot and can swing a test up to 10%.

 

[johnjay06]

My doc suggested I try to do my test subq 2 times a week instead of IM one time due to my hemoglobin always being high. I usually get to around 18.5-19 after 3 months or so. After switching, it never goes above 15.5-15.9 now, even on a little more than TRT. I am also taking natto, but I was taking that when it would get high. Made a believer out of me

 

[Stewie]

.

 

[Stewie]

I am working with a hematologist on this. He's pretty sharp on blood. We were discussing:

55 and below (or maybe 54) - no issues as long as you don't have symptoms. Recall those ranges are a 95% interval so 2.5 men in 100 will normally just be higher without any issue. Above that and any symptoms and it's a concern. 60 and he gets real worried as you don't want to see it much higher.

Polycythemia vera is where crit/rbc is high yet epo is low. Generally not a concern for us but something is fucked in that person. Our issue is increased test/androgen increases epo which drives rbc production from bone marrow. You can dump blood but if test/epo remains high, you will just rebuild it. Shit happens. Not some scary rebound, run high drugs and push yourself to high rbcs and crit, you can temporarily get things down but the environment is the same so your body is just going to gradually rebuild. Basically fat guy diets down but reverts to his fat guy diet and becomes fat again. Duh.

For me, I ran top end rbc/crit even with low test. Never had any symptoms and never once felt better after dumping blood (even with crits of 55/57/60).

So consider a 10% increase. Some guy is a 40 and now a 44 - no one cares. I was a 48-49 so now a 52-53 and insurance doesn't like it. Anyway 200mg moves me to top of range in serum test but epo is sky high. Quest range for epo is 2.5 to 18.5. I was like 90 or 100. At 75mg test I was low 20s. Trying 50mg weekly now - fuck my life. I expect it to be in range at this point. La de fucking da. They can be happy and I'll move on with my life.

This is what I know and his thoughts on it. For me, I just hydrate, watch it and if I move close to 55, I drop blood. Some drugs seem to increase it more than others. Hydration fucking matters a lot and can swing a test up to 10%.

PV is definitely a different beast– being it's a myeloproliferative neoplasm, a type of blood cancer. Generally, not always, there's an increase in all hematopoietic cells, e.g., RBCs, platelets and white blood cells. In which case, puts one a significant higher risk for thromboembolism to occur.

As you noted, Its distinctively different than androgen stimulated secondary erythropoiesis.

I've been close to 60% several times. I'm still kick'n along perfectly fine over a decade later without constantly phlebotomizing. Can't remember the last time I donated blood.

 

[Stewie]

How often do you donate blood to keep hematocrit levels in a healthy range?

Is the 21ga large enough? I know they recommend the 16-17ga for blood donation because bigger could cause minor damage but I assume even 21ga it should pass through but might be slow I have done it twice with these without problems.

www.professionalmuscle.com

 

[Mufasa123]

PV is definitely a different beast– being it's a myeloproliferative neoplasm, a type of blood cancer. Generally, not always, there's an increase in all hematopoietic cells, e.g., RBCs, platelets and white blood cells. In which case, puts one a significant higher risk for thromboembolism to occur.

As you noted, Its distinctively different than androgen stimulated secondary erythropoiesis.

I've been close to 60% several times. I'm still kick'n along perfectly fine over a decade later without constantly phlebotomizing. Can't remember the last time I donated blood.
View attachment 249760

So outside of fucking around with this for insurance reasons (FML) - my one concern with thick blood is physics of it. Higher Rbc and crit are decently good for athletics but that's short term and single events - 30-40 years of pumping thick blood through yourself seems like extra stress on system. Harder work. Our body's pump and tube system genetically designed to move thinner liquids. Just wear and tear.

Also risk of stroke is supposed to be higher especially when combined with higher blood pressures (I'm medicated but otherwise BP can run high).

Interested in thoughts on this as it's mostly just my own thinking and stuff I've come across.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

So outside of fucking around with this for insurance reasons (FML) - my one concern with thick blood is physics of it. Higher Rbc and crit are decently good for athletics but that's short term and single events - 30-40 years of pumping thick blood through yourself seems like extra stress on system. Harder work. Our body's pump and tube system genetically designed to move thinner liquids. Just wear and tear.

Also risk of stroke is supposed to be higher especially when combined with higher blood pressures (I'm medicated but otherwise BP can run high).

Interested in thoughts on this as it's mostly just my own thinking and stuff I've come across.

I read that telmisartan can mildly lower epo, you taking that currently?

 

[Mufasa123]

I read that telmisartan can mildly lower epo, you taking that currently?

I am not. I might look into it as I'm already taking blood pressure meds (low dose). Seems to be a newer Gen drug with some benefits even hitting epo like you said. I didn't know the epo thing and not well versed so I'll read up. Thanks!

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I am not. I might look into it as I'm already taking blood pressure meds (low dose). Seems to be a newer Gen drug with some benefits even hitting epo like you said. I didn't know the epo thing and not well versed so I'll read up. Thanks!

I think it might be all ARB’s, can’t remember

 

[Stewie]

So outside of fucking around with this for insurance reasons (FML) - my one concern with thick blood is physics of it. Higher Rbc and crit are decently good for athletics but that's short term and single events - 30-40 years of pumping thick blood through yourself seems like extra stress on system. Harder work. Our body's pump and tube system genetically designed to move thinner liquids. Just wear and tear.

Also risk of stroke is supposed to be higher especially when combined with higher blood pressures (I'm medicated but otherwise BP can run high).

Interested in thoughts on this as it's mostly just my own thinking and stuff I've come across.

What you're referring to would be shear stress driven by increased viscosity –higher hematocrit. You're absolutely correct, with some individuals this could potentially set the stage for thromboembolism or endothelial barrier disruption. Fortunately, in an otherwise healthy individual, we do have checkpoints– mitigators that come into play to help offset when our viscosity shifts <->. As viscosity increases our endothelial compensate to pump-out more nitric oxide, that should increase vasodilation. Theoretically this lessens endothelial burden– velocity. It's a compensatory mechanism.

For prophylactical purposes this is where I've incorporated, lisinopril, PDE5i, EOD 81mg ASA, omega-3s and sufficient amounts of natural occurring MK7 foods. I a few other supplements on the daily that should suffice to help support my antioxidant capacity.

Is there room for longterm concerns, yeah I suspect so– decades of any elevated viscosity could contribute to cumulative damage. That said, I would believe other uncontrolled/risky co-founders would be more of a concern for a TIA/stroke than a standalone slightly elevated HH.

 

[Stewie]

.

 

[Stewie]

So outside of fucking around with this for insurance reasons (FML) - my one concern with thick blood is physics of it. Higher Rbc and crit are decently good for athletics but that's short term and single events - 30-40 years of pumping thick blood through yourself seems like extra stress on system. Harder work. Our body's pump and tube system genetically designed to move thinner liquids. Just wear and tear.

Also risk of stroke is supposed to be higher especially when combined with higher blood pressures (I'm medicated but otherwise BP can run high).

Interested in thoughts on this as it's mostly just my own thinking and stuff I've come across.

What you're referring to would be shear stress driven by increased viscosity –higher hematocrit. You're absolutely correct, with some individuals this could potentially set the stage for thromboembolism or endothelial barrier disruption. Fortunately, in an otherwise healthy individual, we do have checkpoints– mitigators that come into play to help offset when our viscosity shifts <->. As viscosity increases our endothelial compensate to pump-out more nitric oxide, that should increase vasodilation. Theoretically this lessens endothelial burden– velocity. It's a compensatory mechanism.

For prophylactical purposes this is where I've incorporated lisinopril, PDE5i, EOD 81mg ASA, omega-3s and sufficient amounts of natural occurring MK7 foods. I take a few other supplements on the daily that should suffice to help support my antioxidant capacity.

Is there room for longterm concerns, yeah I suspect so– decades of any elevated viscosity could contribute to cumulative damage. That said, I would believe other uncontrolled/risky co-founders would be more of a concern for a TIA/stroke than a standalone slightly elevated HH.

 

[Kreatine66]

Oh its worth bro.. Its worth for sure!!

 

[nothuman]

I read that telmisartan can mildly lower epo, you taking that currently?

ACE’s like Enalapril in particular would help more than ARB’s. You would just need 10mg+ of Enalapril for there to maybe be an effect and I can’t do that or else my blood pressure would go too low.

 

[nothuman]

Something else worth getting checked when you guys go in for lab tests is fibrinogen. It is one of the key clotting factors in the blood coagulation cascade (specifically known as Factor I) And you want it to be lower. High dose Nattokinase lowers this and that’s the main reason I take it. I got mine down to 330 but ideally want it under 300.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

ACE’s like Enalapril in particular would help more than ARB’s. You would just need 10mg+ of Enalapril for there to maybe be an effect and I can’t do that or else my blood pressure would go too low.

Wasn’t aware
I only take telmisartan and nebivolol

 

[nothuman]

Wasn’t aware
I only take telmisartan and nebivolol

Telmisartan is a overall better blood pressure drug than Enalapril for a few reasons but Enalapril has a better chance to lower hematocrit