HGH Bloat Dieting/Supplement Advice?

[OutToLunch]

K'm seriously considering dropping the last GH I've been using for the past 60 days. While I can see reduced fat and am increasing vascularity, the bloat is getting ridiculous. I'm going to shop for known GH, that causes less bloat. I looked pregnant today after lunch. Big old round gut, but at the same time, lean. It's strange. I look ripped, but I don't at the same time. I only use 2IU's a day.

Maybe switch to 2iu eod for a test run?

 

[Brickshthouse79]

Been on this at 5mg before bed for about 2 months now. Love it! Resting heart rate is down (even on low dose HGH, which usually bumps mine up) and there are literally no side effects. Hardly anymore water retention. The combo of 5mg Nebi and 40mg Telmisartan before bed is awesome.

Just ordered some, thanks for the great link

 

[Biggerp73]

Seems like you might want to try TP's Grey Tops...

 

[BigMick]

Seems like you might want to try TP's Grey Tops...

Why do you think so?

 

[GDADDYG8]

Been on this at 5mg before bed for about 2 months now. Love it! Resting heart rate is down (even on low dose HGH, which usually bumps mine up) and there are literally no side effects. Hardly anymore water retention. The combo of 5mg Nebi and 40mg Telmisartan before bed is awesome.

Why do you take the Telmisartan with the Nebi? Isn’t the nebi enough?


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[nothuman]

Why do you take the Telmisartan with the Nebi? Isn’t the nebi enough?


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I have my own personal medical reasons for using each one but generally speaking, they are separate. You can't assume only one is enough for every single individual. Most AAS users should be using an ARB like Telmisartan IMO. Bystolic is a beta blocker so it's not the same class of drug. Only thing I noticed by combining the two is dizziness if I use too much of one of them.

 

[GDADDYG8]

If you were to use just one to reduce water retention which would it be?


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[nothuman]

If you were to use just one to reduce water retention which would it be?


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I think I notice less water retention on Bystolic.

 

[GDADDYG8]

I have been posting for years about this and trying out aldosterone inhibitors.



When I first started GH years ago....I jumped straight on 4 iu's a day. I never got any lethargy, but got bloated and the was hungry all the time.



I talked to my doc about it.....and I have stated that many times too.....try to find you a good personal doc that is cool. I spent years with mine developing a relationship with him....and eventually the topic turned to PED's.



He told me that he knew I was doing something, and he would rather me "use" him and try to stay healthy as he also sees my Dad and Mom. He specializes in Internal Medicine.



That's when my TRT therapy started. This guy is great, and I actually learned a lot from him that I didn't know.



So when I went on GH...I told him I was going to try it. Later I went to him about the bloating, and he said to let him do a little research on it...and a few days later prescribed me a low dose of a generic aldosterone inhibitor.



I think 25mg of Aldactone. But within a week of taking it, all the bloat went away. The hunger side effects stayed, but no more bloat.



I stayed on GH for over a year at that dose using Eli's and then Rips. Later I dropped it as I had a kid starting college and some other financial obligations.



Now this worked for me....I can't say what it will do for any you guys.



And oddly enough I have been on MK for about 6 weeks now at 25mg. Within a week I got the hunger side effect and the numb hands and fingers at night. But this time I haven't seen any bloat. In fact I am also having to eat way above my TDEE to try and put on weight since starting it up.



But this was my experience and something to look into if you are interested. Also some guy posted in the peptide section that there was a new aldosterone inhibitor out that had a lot more benefits to it than what I was taking. Maybe have a look at that thread and see what you think.

You think the aldactone had any negative side effects for using it that long? You think it put stress on your organs? Or kidneys?


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[swim15]

I have been posting for years about this and trying out aldosterone inhibitors.

When I first started GH years ago....I jumped straight on 4 iu's a day. I never got any lethargy, but got bloated and the was hungry all the time.

I talked to my doc about it.....and I have stated that many times too.....try to find you a good personal doc that is cool. I spent years with mine developing a relationship with him....and eventually the topic turned to PED's.

He told me that he knew I was doing something, and he would rather me "use" him and try to stay healthy as he also sees my Dad and Mom. He specializes in Internal Medicine.

That's when my TRT therapy started. This guy is great, and I actually learned a lot from him that I didn't know.

So when I went on GH...I told him I was going to try it. Later I went to him about the bloating, and he said to let him do a little research on it...and a few days later prescribed me a low dose of a generic aldosterone inhibitor.

I think 25mg of Aldactone. But within a week of taking it, all the bloat went away. The hunger side effects stayed, but no more bloat.

I stayed on GH for over a year at that dose using Eli's and then Rips. Later I dropped it as I had a kid starting college and some other financial obligations.

Now this worked for me....I can't say what it will do for any you guys.

And oddly enough I have been on MK for about 6 weeks now at 25mg. Within a week I got the hunger side effect and the numb hands and fingers at night. But this time I haven't seen any bloat. In fact I am also having to eat way above my TDEE to try and put on weight since starting it up.

But this was my experience and something to look into if you are interested. Also some guy posted in the peptide section that there was a new aldosterone inhibitor out that had a lot more benefits to it than what I was taking. Maybe have a look at that thread and see what you think.

You are aware that aldactone is an anti-androgen, right? Not something I’d wanna stay on year around.

If you’re bloating from growth, try an OTC supp first like dandelion as mentioned but also no reason you couldn’t just use a diuretic like 12.5-25mg of HCTZ once daily in the morning. It’s one of the most commonly prescribed meds in the country. Just salt foods and keep water high like you should be doing anyways and you’ll be good to go.

Telmisartsn is another option as anyone on AAS should be using it anyways but didn’t do anything for me in the water retention department.

 

[Michael30]

Dam now you have me wondering if I should try aldactone. Just 25mg ED? Any bad sides (particularly related to sexual function?)

just curious did you ever try TP's old "the grey tops"? for some odd reason i had zero to little bloat on those. blacks i bloat though. and to be clear im talking about the old grey tops not the current ones.

 

[nothuman]

just curious did you ever try TP's old "the grey tops"? for some odd reason i had zero to little bloat on those. blacks i bloat though. and to be clear im talking about the old grey tops not the current ones.

I did more than just try grey tops. I guess there was slightly less bloat on those but hard to tell. I didn't think the difference was dramatic.

 

[pahlevan]

Anybody have any suggestions on how to reduce the water retention/bloat on hgh. I've read that it's important to keep sodium levels low and to get a lot of potassium. Anything else? I'm trying to keep my carb intake at a minimum too. Any supplements you guys recommend? Thanks in advance!

Its either too much hgh or it's a peptide.

 

[Brickshthouse79]

In fact....here is the original post from the guy in case someone is looking for it.



I am one of those individuals that will start retaining water on just 2ius per day. I came across this article in another group and decided to give it a try at 2.5mg twice per day. I am now up to 4 ius per day with no water retention. I just wanted to share this i case it may help someone else since I have learned so much from this board over the years.

Nebivolol – the ultimate antihypertensive drug that all users should consider
As we know, anabolic hormones alter the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system causing potential changes in salt balance, water retention, blood volume, then subsequently hypertension, LVH and kidney damage.
Coupled with changes in LDL and HDL ratio, not really a pleasant environment for your heart, arteries, circulation.

1. Standard beta blockers causes major alterations in insulin sensitivity and lipid mobilisation. Resulting in type 2 diabetes, and therefore fatloss becoming impossible

2. Angiotensin II receptor antagonist and ACE inhibitors lower plasma noradrenaline levels. Not exactly a good thing when you need this to increase for optimal CNS engagement (strength), fat loss, and energy.

I’ve looked in to all these other classes of drugs used to treat hypertension (except diuretics), and they all have side effects that are not exactly ideal. Generally, they don’t target the core issue, in relation to hormone use, this being alterations in the system I mentioned above. Instead they increase Renin and Aldosterone as a compensatory mechanism.

Here comes Nebivolol. A cardioselective beta 1 antagonist. It is also a beta 3 agonist. Amazing. It has profound nitric oxide properties as well. It doesn’t alter exercise tolerance, it actually aids in fat loss, it doesn’t alter plasma noradrenaline levels (it just blocks noradrenaline from acting on the beta 1 receptors in the heart and kidneys); Lowers renin and aldosterone; It reverses LVH; increases glucose and lipid metabolism; increases Testosterone by 80-90%; and many more… literally void of any side effects.
“In the nebivolol group, a significant decrease in blood pressures (P < 0.001) and heart rate (P < 0.01) was seen. Nebivolol therapy also suppressed plasma renin and aldosterone concentration (P < 0.02) but increased plasma atrial natriuretic peptide levels (P < 0.03)”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/sci…/ar...6752739290238X

Angiotensin II receptor antagonist increase Renin and Aldosterone, whilst Nebivolol decreases.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/…/artic...3317111500618X

“Nebivolol is endowed with peripheral vasodilating properties mediated by the modulation of the endogenous production of nitric oxide. It does not significantly decrease airway conductance compared with atenolol and propranolol. Nebivolol does not compromise the left ventricular function, but it may increase stroke volume, and does not reduce heart inotropism during exertion”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/…/artic...43661898903875

“Nebivolol, through β3AR, is able to induce lipolysis and promote thermogenic and mitochondrial genes. The induction of lipolysis and the thermogenic program could explain the reduction of lipid droplets size”
http://journals.lww.com/…/Nebivolol_...ia__3_adrener…

“nebivolol does not alter exercise capacity significantly in healthy volunteers.”
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00051145
“Our findings in these short-term trials confirm previous reports regarding the neutral effects of nebivolol on lipid profile and carbohydrate metabolism.21,22 Recent data suggest that compared with metoprolol, nebivolol at a comparable dose improved oxidative stress and insulin sensitivity, decreased plasma soluble P-selectin, and increased adiponectin levels in hypertensive patients.”
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/…/j.1...009.0011…/full
“Free fatty acid, free glycerol, plasma catecholamines, beta-endorphines and atrial natriuretic peptide (ANP) increased before and after treatment during maximal and submaximal exercise but remained unaltered by nebivolol treatment”
“nebivolol did not negatively affect lipid and carbohydrate metabolism and substrate flow.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11607802

“Bisoprolol and nebivolol significantly increased concentration of testosterone (by 82 and 85%, respectively) and prolactin (by 77 and 83%, respectively), lowered levels of estradiol and follicle-stimulating hormone, improved vascular blood flow in penile arteries, and did not worsen sexual function.”
[Level of hormones of pituitary-gonadal axis, penile blood flow and sexual function in men with... - Abstract - Europe PMC

“Nebivolol Reverses Endothelial Dysfunction in Essential Hypertension”
Nebivolol Reverses Endothelial Dysfunction in Essential Hypertension | Circulation

“Effects of nebivolol on proliferation and apoptosis of human coronary artery smooth muscle and endothelial cells”
https://academic.oup.com/cardiovascr...…/2/430/400450

“Nebivolol: A Novel Beta-Blocker with Nitric Oxide-Induced Vasodilatation”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1993984/
“Results of the present study demonstrate an inhibitory effect of nebivolol on several components of the atherosclerotic plaque which contribute to its progression. As compared to the control mice, the nebivolol-treated animals showed, along with significantly lower plaque size, a decrease in necrotic core size, collagen content, macrophage and T cell density, and activity of matrix metalloproteinases. In contrast, the drug increased the content of smooth muscle cells in the fibrous cap of the plaque.”
http://jpp.krakow.pl/…/archi…/12_13/...8_article.html

“In hypertensive patients with LVH, nebiviolol, combined with thiazide diuretics, significantly decreased LVMI. Moreover, Nebivolol was able to modify LV geometry from concentric to eccentric. Such effects were significantly higher in patients treated with nebivolol 5 mg/daily than in patients treated with ramipril 2.5 mg/daily. The clinical implication of these results is that the\ treatment with nebivolol/thiazides in hypertensive patients reduces the cardiovascular risk associated with LVH”

“Both nebivolol and ramipril reduced left ventricular mass and left ventricular mass index, but the effect of nebivolol was significantly higher than ramipril. Nebivolol was also able to induce a statistically significant change in the left ventricular geometry evaluated by the relative wall thickness, a marker of cardiovascular risk. “

“Nebivolol reduces arterial stiffness and central blood pressure which have a
pathogenetic role in promoting left ventricular hypertrophy”
http://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp-...loads/1269.pdf
“Available data suggest that nebivolol has a protective effect on left ventricular function. The drug appears to reduce preload and maintain or decrease afterload. Total peripheral vascular resistance did not increase in any study of nebivolol. Heart rate and left ventricular end-diastolic pressure are decreased, whereas stroke volume is increased and cardiac output is generally maintained, notably in patients with heart failure. Nebivolol reduced left ventricular mass in hypertensive patients with left ventricular hypertrophy.”
https://link.springer.com/…/10.2165/...199957040-0001[/CENTER][/CENTER]
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Great post, just ordered some.

 

[GDADDYG8]

Started lasix 3 pills per day. Morning, lunch, and dinner. Can feel a difference in mobility going to keep it up for a few days and see what happens. Hoping it will drop some water bloat! Feel better already TBH.


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[pimpman]

I don't understand if you guys are so worried about water retention from gh. Why don't just stop using gh instead of adding more drugs to bring bloating down. Obviously gh isn't for you. Just a thought to each its own

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[cmryan]

You are aware that aldactone is an anti-androgen, right? Not something I’d wanna stay on year around.

If you’re bloating from growth, try an OTC supp first like dandelion as mentioned but also no reason you couldn’t just use a diuretic like 12.5-25mg of HCTZ once daily in the morning.

I was kind of wondering about a "normal" diuretic instead of a potassium sparing one as well. I once tried mk677 and my feet swole up like footballs within 2 days and truly limited my mobility so I just dropped it and never gave GH, GHRH or secretagogues another serious thought. This was before I was aware of things like HCTZ and aldactone.

But now coming back to considering them again lol. Anyways, if anyone has thoughts on comparing HCTZ vs. potassium sparing diruetics I'd love to read them.